MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Widescreen vs. Pan and Scan?

Widescreen vs. Pan and Scan?


https://youtu.be/mN_Te9c8-7c

Sorry, if this topic has been posted already here.

Today, I think it's all widescreen or letterbox (preferred), but I don't think we all grew up on it. I probably watched Psycho in pan and scan until it came out on DVD or Blu-ray. Is there any reason to watch pan and scan? I found a bunch of VHS movies my parents had, but their vcr/dvd player broke and I got rid of mine. I think most of the older ones are pan and scan and will end up buying another vcr/dvd recorder player.

BTW, any movies from the 1960s you recommend? I've seen the better ones already like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Once Upon a Time in the West, and the bad ones like The Brain That Wouldn't Die. Thanks.

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Sorry, if this topic has been posted already here.

Today, I think it's all widescreen or letterbox (preferred), but I don't think we all grew up on it. I probably watched Psycho in pan and scan until it came out on DVD or Blu-ray. Is there any reason to watch pan and scan?

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I feel that this topic is more up the alley of some others here with technical knowledge, but...I can't see why you would want to watch a pan and scan if you can now see the film "full screen" -- unless for the interesting experiment of watching HOW a movie is panned and scanned -- with people on one side of the screen disappearing and a two-shot of dialogue being turned into altnerating closet-ups.

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I found a bunch of VHS movies my parents had, but their vcr/dvd player broke and I got rid of mine. I think most of the older ones are pan and scan and will end up buying another vcr/dvd recorder player.

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I, too, have some VHS tapes I can't play anymore, and I'd like to . I suppose "vintage" VCRs can be bought "somewhere."

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BTW, any movies from the 1960s you recommend? I've seen the better ones already like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Once Upon a Time in the West, and the bad ones like The Brain That Wouldn't Die. Thanks.

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Well, for what its worth, here's my year by year faves of the 60s:

1960: Psycho
1961: The Guns of Navarone
1962: The Manchurian Candidate
1963: Its a Mad, Mad, Mad Mad World
1964: Dr. Strangelove
1965: The Great Race
1966: The Professionals
1967: Wait Until Dark
1968: Bullitt
1969: The Wild Bunch

And throw in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Advise and Consent, Lonely are the Brave, The Birds, Charade, Mirage, and Hotel for good measure. (Other films are more famous, you'll find those.)

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Thanks, ecarle. I haven't seen half of those. Will make it a point to watch and comment.

You can buy used/refurbished VCR/DVD recorders on ebay or amazon for a decent price, probably about $80 with remote and instructions. New ones are really expensive. I think I'll get one just to watch VHS pan and scan format. It's like watching old movies on tv in the past which is pretty crummy lol.

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Ben-Hur (1959). The aspect ratio is 2.66:1 (compared to Psycho's 1.85:1) and was shown in 70mm format in theaters. I remember it being broadcast on TV back in the day before the digital changeover and the picture was severely cropped to fit the old 4:3 screen dimensions. Viewers were missing almost 50% of the picture. If I'm recalling correctly, the VHS editions were designed to fit this 4:3 ratio.

Personally, I do not like pan-and-scan or any form of tampering with the image. A movie should be viewed as it was originally intended and without cuts. I make sure my movie collection contains unaltered presentations, the only exception being extended directors' cuts.

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I agree, but with VHS and watching movies on tv during the 70s/80s, one didn't have a choice. The first time I saw Psycho (1960) was pan and scan on VHS on a small screen tv. If my experiment with VHS pan and scan convinces me it's not worth the time, then I got boxes of VHS tapes to dump.

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A lot of (especially) older films and tv series these days are presented squished in the other direction - losing their tops and bottoms - for screening on today's relatively wide home screens. E.g., the blu-ray release of classic BBC doc series, The World at War (1973), currently screening on History Channel where I am, is a real travesty in this regard & I can't watch it (the color scheme is completely changed too from dvds etc., but don't get me started on that!). Spurious wide-screen is the new pan-and-scan.

Other systematic 'wrong aspect ratio' problems are less tractable. Lots of films from roughly Psycho's vintage were shot in 4-3 with matte-ing to 1.66-1 or 1.78-1 or 1.85-1 by projectionists only haphazardly recommended, but theatrical and later tv experiences varied widely even if no official pan-and-scan was done. In some cases the upshot is that there's no uniquely correct aspect ratio. For example, On The Waterfront (1954) doesn't look right in any one aspect to everyone. Criterion's bluray for it has it in 1.66-1 on disc 1, and in 4-3 and 1.85-1 on disc 2. Only the 4:3 looks right to me, possibly just because that's how I first encountered it.

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And to see how complex these things get, here's a famous (in the right circles) image from the Kino-dvd of a brilliant 1960 French film, Les Bonnes Femmes (by leading Hitchcockian Claude Chabrol):
https://tinyurl.com/y2mxaeto
Matt Weiner stole this image (of a guy whose face we never see) & made it central to Mad Men.

Here's how that *exact* frame looks in the standard French dvd of Les Bonnes Femmes:
https://tinyurl.com/y6qc79kl
This image is cropped much tighter in all directions meaning that notwithstanding its slightly wider aspect ratio it conveys much less horizontal info: almost no shadow to the left, no cigarette to the right. It's a completely different image.

Note that the French edition is less 'contrasty' overall, e.g., the glare off the floor tiles is much less blown out. Note too that the French edition is about 5 mins longer, has a number of new (to US eyes) scenes including an opening narration of a poem. There there's no way we can regard the Kino-dvd version (which seems to correspond closely to older repertory prints in the English-speaking world) as definitive.

The film buff's lot is not a happy one!

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Interesting. I wasn't aware of "wrong aspect ratio" problems and how Psycho was shown on tv. I'll have to find the vhs tape of Psycho if it is still around. I just checked and maybe I have a collection one. Remember seeing it, but dunno. I know I've never seen this one which could the first pressing -- https://www.ebay.com/itm/PSYCHO-Horror-Alfred-Hitchcock-Vintage-VHS-Video-Original-No-UPC-MCA/123929747957?hash=item1cdac9e1f5:g:f2AAAOSwittdmLkn.

Just think, we used to go to Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, or local dealer (mine was Video Cafe where it was a diner and they also rented videos) to rent these tapes and thought it was cool. It was a big deal getting the movie candy and popcorn. Of course, I didn't know about the secret seasoning at the time.

Today, I can't imagine streaming a current movie to the one's device and watching it that way, but maybe that's cool for the current generation. I dunno. The cinemas are not the same anymore either.

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how Psycho was shown on tv
Yep, Psycho was often screened on TV in an un-matted (not pan-and-scanned) 4-3 asp. ratio. Semi-famously on this board, a car goes by at the (newly uncovered) top of the 4-3 frame when Norman sinks Marion's car in the swamp. But lots of other Psycho shots really do look wrong in 4-3. E.g., I remember both Marion in the gas station bathroom & Sam in his hardware store as having way too much head-room.... So I'm happy with Psycho on dvd & Blu-ray in 1.85-1. But if you look around online you can find afficionados of Psycho in squarer formats.

BTW, I only recently got around to watching The Hitcher (1986), i.e., in the light of Rutger Hauer's death. I started watching a version that's up on youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Hf9gcxpfo
But once I realized it was severely pan-and-scanned from the film's original very wide 2.39-1 asp. ratio I spent a couple of days tracking down a bluray. Truly it was a different film, often with important action elements at both ends of the frame. The pan-and-scanned version sometimes even refused to choose "an end" & actually gave you only the empty 'middle' for a whole shot.

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Even my tv and computer monitor is widescreen now. I can't see a 4:3 asp ratio like on an older tv. I would get the black lines on the sides instead of top and bottom.

Here are two Psycho films I found we can compare online. I think the top is widescreen and the bottom is pan and scan. You can see them scan some of the scenes.

Widescreen (?)
https://www.mojvideo.com/video-psycho-1960-full-movie-eng-subs/6b1bf7844bf9ec637be7

Pan and scan (?)
https://vimeo.com/231413951

BTW, the uncut German version with English is available region free on Blu-ray as of Jan 31, 2019. I'm not sure how we can get one in the US tho :(.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Psycho-Blu-ray/232217/

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BTW, the uncut German version with English is available region free on Blu-ray as of Jan 31, 2019. I'm not sure how we can get one in the US tho :(.

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Of this one, I still say:

Addition footage of Marion pulling her bra down to reveal more of her back: TRUE.

Additional footage of Norman's blood-stained hands en route to the sink for washing: TRUE.

Additional footage of the knife going down into the unseen Arbogast on the foyer floor: FALSE.

The Arbogast footage just looks like a "replay" of the single stab in the finished film. To me.

I may be wrong.


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