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They most certainly were. Well spoken, well said.
Hedda Hopper opined that in her day, Janet Leigh had "the best female voice in movies." Robert Wagner opined around the same time that Leigh had the best breasts in Hollywood (except he didn't use that word.) Both the voice and the chest are well on display in Psycho.
Though its funny about how Leigh's chest is shown in Psycho. Yes, she's shown in a brassiere three times(once white, twice black), but it is a BIG brassiere that covers up a lot of the territory. Still, she's sexy-plus in her opening scene with Gavin(folks forget that she puts her blouse on about halfway through), and they are visible enough. Plus: on the Psycho poster of 1960, its really Leigh's bosom that is the star attraction, even enwrapped in that industrial strength bra.
And this: Hitchcock wasn't much of a "breast man" in his movies. He was on record again and again as being against the bosom displays of Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren, he preferred the "cool blonde" who kept the goods under wraps and revealed herself as a sexual volcano privately. Leigh in Psycho is about as close as he came to "breast exploitation" and he really couldn't bring himself to do it. The James Bond movies and Matt Helm American spy movies with Dean Martin that came later -- THOSE were the movies that went nuts on top heavy female leads.
Extra points for Leigh:
In her autobio, Leigh noted a scene in The Vikings where Kirk Douglas ripped her dress from behind, showing off a lot of Leigh's back. It was Leigh's contention that a woman's back is one of her sexier parts.
In Bye Bye Birdie, younger sexpot Ann Margret opens the movie all alone sexily singing the title tune(top-billed Leigh saw this scene at the premiere -- she didn't know the movie would lead with it -- and ran from the theater in tears) , but Leigh holds up the "mature 30 year old sexuality" nicely in a scene in which she appears before beau Dick Van Dyke in a low cut "baby doll" nightie with a lot of leg. Leigh still had it going on in Bye Bye Birdie!
And she had a bra scene in "Bye Bye Birdie".
shareOh?
I forgot.
Gotta take a look.
Leigh never did nudity..and I don't think she needed to or should have. But she did work with a certain proud sexuality in many of her movies...including a very sexy turn in a movie called "An American Dream" and sexy TV turns as a sexy psycho Mafia hitwoman on The Man From UNCLE and a promiscuous wife in "House on Greenapple Road"(1970.)
She was gorgeous, and smart but her breasts were not huge as some would think.
Janet had a 23 inch waist and always wore clothes that were snug at the waist because she was proud of her slim figure. Her measurements were 37-23-35. See what's going on here? Even her hips were slightly smaller than her boobs. She wore size 34C bra which is not big by todays standards. It was that narrow waist and hips that made her breasts so noticeable as well as the pointed bras of that era.
Those pointy bras are slowly making a comeback but I doubt they will have the same effect because few women today have a 23 inch waist. Only devoted athletes have a waist that slim but they never have the boobs unless they are fake boobs and even the movie stars are a bit thicker with 26 and larger waist.
Janet was a treasure, so sad she is gone now. I doubt we will see another like her in my lifetime.
She was gorgeous, and smart but her breasts were not huge as some would think.
Janet had a 23 inch waist and always wore clothes that were snug at the waist because she was proud of her slim figure. Her measurements were 37-23-35. See what's going on here? Even her hips were slightly smaller than her boobs. She wore size 34C bra which is not big by todays standards. It was that narrow waist and hips that made her breasts so noticeable as well as the pointed bras of that era.
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I'm reminded that, in Old Hollywood especially but also today, a certain "ultra-thinness" was required of female and male stars alike(they dieted constantly), and that the movie camera can play tricks with the size of well -- everything. Short men nd short women can be photographed taller; women of a modest bust size can look more voluptuous.
I had three occasions to be in the same place with Janet Leigh in my younger life -- I think she ranged from her fifties to her sixties in those "visits" (Hitchcock's public memorial service; a Hitchcock Cenntennial at the Academy and up close and personal at a book signing) and she was indeed a small, bird-like woman, shorter than me and I'm not very tall. I tell you the truth, I don't particularly recall noting Ms. Leigh's bust size in those "meetings," but it wasn't prominent.
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Those pointy bras are slowly making a comeback
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No kidding! Its about time! I love "retro"
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but I doubt they will have the same effect because few women today have a 23 inch waist. Only devoted athletes have a waist that slim but they never have the boobs unless they are fake boobs and even the movie stars are a bit thicker with 26 and larger waist.
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Hmm...well those movie studio bosses were a bit cruel in their dietary requirements of their actors. We all have a bit more meat on the bones these days.
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Janet was a treasure, so sad she is gone now. I doubt we will see another like her in my lifetime.
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No. In her time, she wasn't a "superstar" (those would be Liz Taylor, Doris Day and Audrey Hepburn, I think), but she BECAME one, largely because of her "thriller trifecta"(Touch of Evil, Psycho, and The Manchurian Candidate) but also because Leigh in her prime was both a physical specimen AND an intelligent, empathetic actress with one of the smoothest voices in Hollywood.
A great display of this is her early scene (on a train in the Hitchcock tradition) with a clearly shell-shocked basket case played by Sinatra in The Manchurian Candidate. Leigh talks with him at close range in a mix of witty humor and compassionate sex appeal and -- you BELIEVE that this nutcase military man CAN find happiness with THIS woman, just like that. Sinatra said the scene was done in one morning, no retakes, Leigh was perfect.
I had to revisit after watching the added scene of Janet Leigh's boobs in a black brassiere. It even gets a second look of Norman Bates being a peeping tom. There is no question she is is up there for blonde bombshell except she does her best to play it down. I think we would have a much different opening and movie if Marilyn or Kim Novak was playing Marion Crane. Which brings up the question, was Janet Leigh Hitchcock's first choice? Obviously, she was a winner. Her character is even understated as she gets $40,000 plopped on her desk. Even Hitch's daughter comes over to point it out to her.
shareI had to revisit after watching the added scene of Janet Leigh's boobs in a black brassiere. It even gets a second look of Norman Bates being a peeping tom.
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That's a relevant point, isn't it? Not only does the "German version" have a bit more "Leigh skin" on display(sexily supported by a bra that is still halfway there)...but ANOTHER shot of Norman at the peephole. I wonder: additional footage of Perkins here? Or just a REPEAT of what we already have seen?
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There is no question she is is up there for blonde bombshell except she does her best to play it down.
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Yes. I expect this was Hitchcock's doing. He went on and on about NOT wanting to play up women with big breasts and low cut blouses. Consider Eva Marie Saint, one movie earlier , in NXNW. She never dresses provocatively but she sure SAYS sexual things, and that's enough to make her "hot."
Maybe it was Paramount bosses who demanded the photo of Leigh in her bra for the Psycho poster(and there were two or three DIFFERENT shots of Leigh in her bra, depending on the poster. One where she is screaming, one where she is not, maybe one more.)
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I think we would have a much different opening and movie if Marilyn or Kim Novak was playing Marion Crane.
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As a matter of reality, Hitchcock never really got along with Kim Novak and didn't think much of her acting ability(he was wrong) and likely she wasn't up for Psycho.
Marilyn Monroe was interested in Marnie at an early stage(it was announced some years before it was made, while MM was still alive), and though she wasn't named, Joe Stefano suggested that MM WAS considered for Psycho ("We talked about a really big actress, bigger than Janet Leigh, but decided she was too big --- MM? Doris Day? Stefano later walked this back when he thought it hurt Leigh's feelings -- "I meant an actress who was PHYSICALLY bigger than Janet Leigh." Nice save, Joe.
But I can't see Hitchcock being willing to put up with MM's mental problems and inability to remember lines and need for scores of takes.. Billy Wilder went nuts getting a great perf out of MM in Some Like It Hot.
As a matter of "unreality," Novak or MM in the opening hotel love scene might well have taken the sex quotient up a level -- they were "fleshier" women than Leigh and THEIR voices were "sex voices" -- low and seductive; Leigh's was more "smart."
Which brings up the question, was Janet Leigh Hitchcock's first choice?
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Leigh got the first offer, though Hitchcock considered quite a few other actresses first. But he didn't audition anybody, he thought about them and/or looked at them on film in his screening room.
Per Stephen Rebello's book on the making of Psycho(and evidently from Joe Stefano interviews and studio memos), we learn that Hitchcock first thought about using Eva Marie Saint again. He really liked her. Imagine had Eva Marie been the focus of TWO back to back Hitchcock classics. But Hitch decided that having "glamourized" Saint in NXNW, he didn't want to put her back in a "working girl" role. (Saint would later be considered for Marnie and Hitchcock WANTED her in Torn Curtain, but the studio wanted Julie Andrews. Just as well -- Eva Marie is only in one Hitchcock film, but its one of his very best.)
The studio pushed Lana Turner, who just had a hit(in Imitation of Life, with John Gavin!) and had just been fired off of "Anatomy of a Murder"(as an older version of Lee Remick's sexpot.) But I guess she seemed too old and matronly by then.
For Marion, Hitchcock looked at film on: Piper Laurie, Martha Hyer, Hope Lange, Lee Remick(off of Anatomy of a Murder), Angie Dickinson(who would play a similar role 20 years later in Dressed to Kill) and wrote, Rebello, "wholesome Shirley Jones, of Carousel and Oklahoma, who would soon do an abrupt about-face as a trollop in Elmer Gantry(1960.)" I've always loved Rebello's phrase. Indeed, Shirley Jones in Elmer Gantry would beat Janet Leigh at the Oscars for Psycho and lose to Janet Leigh at the Golden Globes the same year. They were "paired." And I see Shirley Jones as a pretty good "alternate Marion" except -- Leigh was a bit older, a bit more "used," and(likely important to Hitchcock) recently menaced in a motel for director Orson Welles (Touch of Evil.)
Indeed it has been suggested that the combination of Hitchcock's seeing "Touch of Evil" and MCA chief Lew Wasserman pushing for his client Leigh got her the role. Indeed Tony Curtis flat out said "Lew Wasserman got Janet her role in Psycho." Probably so. He pushed for John Gavin, too. But the role of Marion Crane was too important for Hitchcock to "just give in" -- he clearly wanted and valued Janet Leigh in this role. And considered her big ENOUGH a star to kill off early and shock audiences (who, ahem...never saw the trailer.)
Obviously, (Leigh) was a winner.
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Yep. A Golden Globe winner (1960, Psycho, Supporting Actress) and almost an Oscar winner(1960; Psycho, Supporting Actress -- Shirley Jones won.) Leigh ended up being the ONLY actor in a Hitchcock film after 1946 to even get NOMINATED for a Hitchcock film! Quite an honor. (And quite an insult to Robert Walker, Doris Day, James Stewart, Kim Novak, Cary Grant, James Mason, Martin Balsam and...drum roll...Anthony Perkins.)
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Her character is even understated as she gets $40,000 plopped on her desk. Even Hitch's daughter comes over to point it out to her.
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Though I like Van Sant's Psycho FOR the experiment of it, the mis-casting leaves much to be desired. Anne Heche's over-reactions and mugging(particularly when she gets that money plopped on her desk and how she reacts to Cassidy) reminds us: a role can be PLAYED by anyone, but not PERFECTLY played. Anne Heche was like the "college drama class scene" version of Marion. Janet Leigh WAS Marion.
And key to Leigh's Marion is how calm and controlled she ...seems. Once she steals the money, her calm is but a surface, and we can sense her paranoia and anxiety. But she is still cool enough to contrast with Nervous Nellie Norman Bates.
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Since I have Stephen Rebello's book on the making of Psycho out -- and IMDb for back-up -- and I gave you the actress names he considered for Marion, here are a few more lists:
FOR LILA: Felicia Farr, Carolyn Jones, Eleanor Parker, Caroline Kinney(TV actress). IMDb says Method Actress Kim Stanley got an offer but turned it down because she didn't want to work with Tony Perkins(why?) Vera Miles seems to have gotten the role because she was on personal contract to Hitch and could be gotten "cheap" for the low budget film.
FOR SAM: Stuart Whitman, Cliff Robertson, Tom Tryon, Leslie Nielsen, Brian Keith, Tom Laughlin, Jack Lord, Rod Taylor, Robert Loggia.
Some interesting "what ifs?" there: We are lucky that Leslie Nielsen didn't get Sam, or the movie after 1980 would have a lifelong "unintended comedy element" to it -- nobody could take Nielsen seriously after Airplane/The Naked Gun. Tom Laughlin was in "Tall Story" with Perkins in 1960 but only became a "semi-star" in 1971 as Billy Jack. Tom Tryon looked a lot LIKE John Gavin, a near double. Rod Taylor famously got a (bigger)male lead in The Birds; Robert Loggia would be the psychiatrist in Psycho II. Jack Lord would soon become "A Lord" on Hawaii 5-0.
I rather like the idea of Brian Keith as Sam. He was a rough-hewn, burly Western TV star at the time(The Westerner for Sam Peckinpah) and would have fit the back-country Sam well. Perhaps too well. John Gavin ended up with a "young Cary Grant in the sticks" aura -- particularly in suit and tie. (Gavin would actually PLAY Grant in the Sophia Loren TV movie biopic, starring Loren herself.)
It is known now that Hitchcock wanted Stuart Whitman(another Western star) for Sam but that Wasserman persuaded Hitch to go with Gavin instead. Gavin is fine in the role, but Hitchcock resented him ("the stiff," he called him) and that's a part of movie history, too.
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It seems that only the roles of Marion, Lila, and Sam required a "full review of clips" to find the right actor. Hitchcock wanted Tony Perkins for Norman from the start. Its almost as if Psycho could not have been made without Perkins as Norman(Kubrick stated this about McDowall in Clockwork Orange). "Tony," said Hitch to Perkins in trying to hook him for the role, "you ARE this film." I've only seen these other suggestions: Dean Stockwell(by Rebello in his book, no record of Hitch thinking this) and Roddy McDowall(me, but he was also suggested in the "Hitchcock" movie so maybe great minds think alike.)
Martin Balsam for Arbogast and Simon Oakland for the psychiatrist were suggested to Hitchcock by the man who wrote their parts -- Joe Stefano -- and Hitchcock seems to have taken that as a way to eliminate further work -- though he did look at Balsam in 12 Angry Men to decide.
And I got a clue to the rest of the Psycho casting from...the casting director for Marnie(1964) who said on that movie "Hitchcock told me I could cast everybody other than the five main roles." Well, Psycho has five main roles too(Norman, Marion, Lila, Sam, Arbogast) so...we can figure that the cop and California Charlie and Cassidy and Lowery were all cast by a casting director who submitted final photos and film to Hitch. Maybe John McIntire needed Hitch's involvement to find; I don't know.
Directors from Kubrick to Huston to Coppola have said: "the key to a good to great film is getting the casting right." Psycho got that element for all time. The first one, at least.