MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > ON Topic: Tab Hunter, RIP

ON Topic: Tab Hunter, RIP


Tab Hunter passed a few days ago. At 86. A long life, and for much of the last decades of it, an openly gay one.

His real name was Arthur Gelien(sp?) Whoever called him "Tab" added him to "Rock" as the archetypical phony baloney-named star of his era. But Rock Hudson was much bigger as a star, he had a fake name didn't hurt THAT much. Still, Rock and Tab, fifties archetypes. I'm reminded of "Dash Riprock." Was he on the Beverly Hillbillies.

Tab Hunter's connection to Psycho is Tony Perkins, and the documented contention that the two actors were, for a time around the making of Psycho, lovers. Call that gossip, but it has been corroborated, and it think it is meaningful to Hollywood circa 1960.

There is a photo that I find rather sly and funny of the two men on a studio "double date" sitting side by side to each other in theater seats, with pretty women on their arms. The women are the ostensible dates; but Tony and Tab are looking into each other's eyes, in on a very big joke. Funnier still: right-wing character guy Ward Bond stands over the two men, beaming.

In 1972, Tony Perkins and Tab Hunter were both in the cast of John Huston's "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean," in cameos. I'm here to say that the two men, by then in their handsome late thirties/ early forties and with the longish hair of the era, both looked great. You can see why each man at least got a shot at stardom, even if it had faded by '72. They were great looking men.

Rumor has it that the filming schedule on Judge Roy Bean was drafted so that Tony and Tab weren't there at the same time. What was over, was over. Perkins would soon marry a woman; and reportedly lost his virginity(with a woman) to Victoria Principal on Judge Roy Bean in some sort of set-up job by Paul Newman that both Perkins and Principal spoke of warmly. Ah, Hollywood..Said one of the straight actors on Judge Roy Bean: "All of us straight guys were trying to land her, but Tony got her."

My special place for Tab Hunter is that he is in my favorite movie of 1958: Damn Yankees.(Yes, it beats Vertigo.) Tab was as big a star as he would ever be at that time; Warners chose him to be the "movie star" placed with the Broadway cast(as Doris Day had been in The Pajama Game.)

As "Shoeless Joe ," the forty-something insurance salesman reincarnated by the Devil(Ray Walston) as a 20-something baseball hitting prodigy, Hunter played his role as nice and innocent and kindly as could be. He resists the vamping of Lola(Gwen Verdon) the seductress sent by the devil to ruin him, and takes a room in the home of his still middle-aged wife, where he tries to comfort her as she mourns her missing old husband(HIM.)

It seems that every star of some stature gets SOME memorable movie, and Tab Hunter got Damn Yankees and, i guess, Battle Cry -- a "Marine movie" favorite of my military family members.

And somehow, Tab hung on after his 50's stardom ended. TV series, B movies, TV movies...even something with Divine for John Waters, I think.

And 86 is pretty good to make. Tony Perkins only made it to 60.

Which reminds me: in the summer of 1960 when Psycho hit movie houses, Tony Perkins was on the Boston summer stock stage in ..Damn Yankees! Perkins took the cast to a matinee of Psycho and said that night's Damn Yankees performance was subpar because: the other actors were scared of Tony and couldn't look him in the eyes, missed their cues.

Which reminds me: If Tony Perkins in 1960 could do Damn Yankees...could Tab Hunter circa 1960 have done Norman Bates? I'd say looks-wise, no(Tab had butch white-blond hair, kind macho). But ACTING-wise? Maybe. There's a lot of Norman Bates' shyness, niceness, politeness and sweetness in Tab Hunter's work as Shoeless Joe in Damn Yankees. Take a look at it sometime.

You might just see Norman.

RIP.

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If Tony Perkins in 1960 could do Damn Yankees...could Tab Hunter circa 1960 have done Norman Bates?
It's worth mentioning that in 1972/1973 Hunter *did* a version of Norman Bates in Curtis Hanson's first (fast and cheap for Corman) film The Arousers a.k.a. Sweet Kill. IIRC, Hunter's Character grows up sexually obsessed with his mother, and is impotent with all women who don't impersonate his mom for him (he pays prostitutes to do the only thing that works for him). As a handsome gym teacher and Venice Beach rat in 1972, however, he has lots of beautiful girls coming on to him and he ends up killing them for it.

https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/sweet-kill_0.jpg

The film's amateurish and more than a bit of a muddle, but Psycho is a near constant reference throughout - e.g., there are shower scenes and body disposal scenes - and there's the implicit use of Hunter's gayness to ground the otherwise pretty preposterous premise of Hunter's character lashing out against ridiculously cute girls constantly coming on to him.

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This link has more about The Arousers including all the posters comparing it to Psycho:
https://horrorpedia.com/2016/09/21/sweet-kill-the-arousers-1972-psycho-thriller-curtis-hanson-overview-cast-plot-reviews/

2021 Update: The main link in this post no longer works. A successor link that works is:
https://moviesandmania.com/2020/03/26/sweet-kill-the-arousers-reviews-movie-film-1972-overview/

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Fascinating stuff about The Arousers all the way around, swanstep. So Tab Hunter DID play a Norman Bates character. And Curtis Hanson -- director of my favorite movie of the 90's, LA Confidential -- started HERE? (25 years before LA Confidential...it was a long road to The Top.) The film also shows off how that "R" rating that so sexed-up the American studio film(Klute, MASH) also led to a lotta soft-core exploitation ("The Arousers -- they take on all comers!") Here is a psycho movie being sold as a sex movie...

One is reminded that a lot of Tab Hunter's career after his brief star period, was in bad cheapie movies...Tony Perkins managed to avoid that kind of work until pretty much his final few years as an actor(though he DID make some bad ones). Still, Hunter survived. As did Tony, best he could.

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Here is a psycho movie being sold as a sex movie...

Yes, and when it was recut with additional sex scenes and re-titled in 1973 they actually took Tab Hunter's name off the poster! Which is crazy; it's *his* movie (and I bet Hunter thought to himself and probably out loud that 'they' never did this to Tony Perkins). Whatever it takes to make a buck I guess, and the gals in the film *are* knockouts...

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Yes, and when it was recut with additional sex scenes and re-titled in 1973 they actually took Tab Hunter's name off the poster!

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Hmmm...I guess he had no "contractural protection" on billing. Well, maybe he didn't want it on this one.

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Which is crazy; it's *his* movie (and I bet Hunter thought to himself and probably out loud that 'they' never did this to Tony Perkins).

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Though Tab Hunter has a surprising number of "A" Warners movies on his fifties resume, I guess he didn't have what Tony Perkins had: the lifelong iconic protection of Being Norman Bates. This got Perkins quite a few A pictures in the 70s...after Psycho hit TV and colleges and Perkins got a whole new fanbase...and of coures, in the 80's, when Psychos II, II, and IV(1990) rebranded Perkins all over again as Norman(with one of those three -- II -- a pretty big hit.)

Here is some irony. I checked out Tab's imdb page and found that his last acting role was in 1992. He played a character named "Perkins." In-joke?

Tab passed in Santa Barbara, California, a pretty wealthy coastal enclave nowadays. He must have kept his money or married well. Maybe he moved there decades ago when it was affordable. Good for him! (Side-note: Cary Grant attended a sneak preview of North by Northwest in Santa Barbara in 1959 and called up screenwriter Ernest Lehman to congratulate him on writing Grant such a Hitchcock hit. Evidently Grant witnessed the Santa Barbara audience going nuts for NXNW and giving it a standing "O" at the end. Me and my trivia.)

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Whatever it takes to make a buck I guess, and the gals in the film *are* knockouts...

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Whatever it takes. Knockouts were certainly OK to watch in that time...when I was more of appropriate age to appreciate them. Aw, hell, I appreciate knockouts now. Like the song says, "Beautiful girl...walk a little slower when you walk by me."

Which reminds me: In 1973 or so, I visited the Maryland coastal town of Annapolis, home of the famed Naval Academy. I noticed a line of midshipmen students(I guess) -- young guys in white sailor suits -- and the line snaked around several sidewalks of the town, around one corner and then another. I followed the line of Naval Academy students to its source: a movie theater playing "The Stewardesses -- in 3D!" R-rated softcore porn of the early 70's I believe. A midshipman's best leave yet. Well, second best...

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I must admit I have never seen Damn Yankees but I will keep my eyes peeled. It must be excellent if you rate it higher than Vertigo. I did see the recent documentary, Tab Hunter Confidential, and I thought it was outstanding. He had a challenging time in Hollywood before he came out. I'm not sure why people seem to enjoy being cruel. He was an extremely handsome man his entire life and charming. I can see why he became a movie star.

I cannot imagine any other actor in the Norman Bates role other than Anthony Perkins. He was perfect for it. I was not born when Anthony Perkins made most of his movies. I probably saw Psycho for the first time in the 1980s on late night TV. The only other movie I can remember seeing of his when I was growing up was Mahogany, another movie that aired quite a bit on tv. It wasn't until later that I saw he was a very versatile actor. I absolutely adore the movie Friendly Persuasion and he's excellent in that as the young son who wants to prove himself as a soldier in The Civil War. I never found him to be that attractive. He's handsome but I always thought he was way too thin to be appealing, just a personal opinion of mine. He died so young, it's a shame.

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I must admit I have never seen Damn Yankees but I will keep my eyes peeled. It must be excellent if you rate it higher than Vertigo.

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Well, please remember that I am working from a list that is very personal to me -- though I have found it a nice "organizational tool" on this Psycho board and a nice later-in-life review of what movies really GOT to me over my lifetime(which is far from over, I might add.)

The critical world finds Vertigo MUCH better than Damn Yankees, and so do some movie fans right here at this board.

But I gotta go with my gut on these things -- I've loved Damn Yankees since the first time I saw it. The "saucy" aspects of a sexual seductress(Gwen Verdon's Lola); the elegant villainy of "Mr. Applegate, aka The Devil"(Ray Walston , repeating his Broadway role after Cary Grant seriously considered taking this role because the co-director was his pal Stanley Donen.) And, yes -- Tab Hunter. Word is that this was his biggest individual starring role and his best movie.

The cast is good(Edith Bunker and Bob Fosse are in it), and I love the musical numbers, none moreso than the famous (You've gotta have) Heart," but also Lola's sexy, brassy tunes, the soulful and sad "Goodbye, Old Girl"(a middle aged man writes a farewell letter to his wife as he takes the Devil's deal to "turn youth.") and a really fun and sexy duet for Gwen Verdon AND Tab Hunter called "Two Lost Souls," which invokes the sadness of a Faustian deal in upbeat, jazzy terms ("Two lost souls, on the sea of life, one with no sail, and one with no rudder...but ain't it just great, aint it just grand...we got each other.") And even the Devil gets a good Hitchcockian number about "The Good Old Days" -- of Jack the Ripper, the Black Death, Witch Burnings, etc. (Jerry Lewis, of all people, did this number in a comeback revival of the play on Broadway.)

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Damn Yankees, like The Pajama Game from the same makers, is a rather lowish budget, fast-on-its-feet kind of fifties musical, with a Warner Brothers echo chamber sound system, and I kind of prefer it to the epic grandiosity of My Fair Lady or The Sound of Music.

I recently promoted 1962's The Music Man as a fave and got slapped down on that one; I expect a similar risk with Damn Yankees...but I love 'em both.

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I did see the recent documentary, Tab Hunter Confidential, and I thought it was outstanding.

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Sounds like it is worth a watch. So often the gay issues of Old Hollywood were open secrets in town, swept under the rug elsewhere. It would be nice to get "the straight story." Well, the story.

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He had a challenging time in Hollywood before he came out. I'm not sure why people seem to enjoy being cruel.

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Because they do. Some of them.

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He was an extremely handsome man his entire life and charming. I can see why he became a movie star.

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It would seem that even to have earned the short star career he got -- and the handful of good movies that he made -- Tab Hunter had to have had SOMETHING right going on. Enough for a studio to bank on him. In some ways, he got shortchanged by the sudden shift of male movie star type that happened in the 60s...Newman, McQueen, Connery...Caine. And then came Hoffman and Nicholson and Pacino...

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I cannot imagine any other actor in the Norman Bates role other than Anthony Perkins. He was perfect for it.

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I contend that this is the greatest match of actor to role in the history of American studio film. Brando was Stanley Kowalski AND Vito Corleone. Vivien Leigh was Scarlett O'Hara and Blanche. But Tony Perkins seemed put in Hollywood -- put on EARTH -- to give us Norman Bates as a game-changing movie character perfectly crafted to his persona.

Recall that Hitchcock wanted to use Anthony Perkins in SOME movie from the time he saw him in "Fear Strikes Out"(1957) Hitchcock likely saw Perkins early on as a potential boyish villain in the tradition of Robert Walker in Strangers on a Train. Evidently, Hitchcock kept Perkins on his mind until the right role turned up -- but, incredibly, Norman Bates in the Bloch novel was an overweight forty-year old man, nothing like Perkins. HITCHCOCK saw Perkins as Norman Bates and created him accordingly.

And personally, I haven't been able to consider any of the other actors who played Norman "legit" ever since. Not Henry Thomas. Not Freddie Highmore. And certainly not hulking Vince Vaughn. Thomas and Highmore were Perkins LIKE...but not close enough to Tony's mix of the beautiful and the geeky. Thomas was too strapping; Highmore not sexy enough.

Also: I don't particularly think Tony Perkins in II, III, or IV really matched his performance (or looks) int he 1960 original. Tony Perkins as Norman Bates was perfect in the role ONCE. At age 28, for Hitchcock.

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I, of course, agree completely with you here. Don't you love when you hear some of the other people the casting director may have had in mind?
I'm not a big fan of remakes or sequels and I haven't seen any of these that you mentioned except Bates Motel. I think the actors in that show are excellent, but I really don't see the show as a sequel, per se, more of an homage. The story, (I've only seen a few episodes), is very different. I'm a big Vera Farmiga fan so I'll watch nearly anything she does.

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I, of course, agree completely with you here. Don't you love when you hear some of the other people the casting director may have had in mind?

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Oh, alternate casting is a big trivia pursuit of mine. Now, I mean REAL alternate casting. Not who we imagine -- but who was actually sought.

For instance, Quint the shark hunter in Jaws. Spielberg first sought Lee Marvin, who said no(which seems crazy to me; Marvin's career wasn't doing too well in '74); then Spielberg sought Sterling Hayden, who was willing but couldn't leave France for tax reasons. Then Jaws producers Zanuck and Brown recommended Robert Shaw, who had been their villain in The Sting. Shaw got it, history was made.

If you go over to imdb and look in the "trivia" section for any given movie, you will usually find quite a few OTHER actors offered a role that made somebody rich or famous. Eastwood turned down Die Hard. Mel Gibson turned down The Untouchables(to take Lethal Weapon -- a better choice for him.) Sean Connery turned down the Laurence Fishburne role in The Matrix("I didn't understand the script.")

It is said of his four main movie psychos, Hitchcock got his first choice two of the times only:

Psycho: Anthony Perkins
Strangers on a Train: Robert Walker.

Shadow of a Doubt: William Powell was first choice. Joseph Cotton got it instead.
Frenzy: Michael Caine was first choice. Barry Foster got it instead.

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I'm not a big fan of remakes or sequels and I haven't seen any of these that you mentioned except Bates Motel.

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Intriguingly enough, I was recently gifted with DVDs of Psycho II(1983), Psycho III(1986) and Psycho IV(1990.) I've been looking at them to "re-gather my memories." An older Perkins played Norman in Psycho II, III, and IV. Henry Thomas(grown up from ET) played Norman in murderous flashbacks as a young man in Psycho IV. Vince Vaughn played him in Van Sant's remake, and Freddie Highmore seems to have made the most successful re-do of the role in Bates Motel. I'll bet a whole generation of millennials now think of Freddie Highmore as Norman, and would find Anthony Perkins an unknown.

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I think the actors in that show are excellent, but I really don't see the show as a sequel, per se, more of an homage. The story, (I've only seen a few episodes), is very different.

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Yes, the showrunner said as much. "Psycho" is his selling hook, but he's really telling an entirely new story. I mean, we get a young and sexual Mrs. Bates for one thing...not the old crone of Hitchcock's movie.

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I'm a big Vera Farmiga fan so I'll watch nearly anything she does.

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She's good(those eyes!) and I think Bates Motel has made her more famous and gotten her more roles in movies.

I like Hitchcock's Psycho better than Bates Motel...but I respect and honor Bates Motel as a homage to Hitchcock's greatest story, on its own terms.

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I appreciate your love for the less "produced" Damn Yankees over the others. My favorite musical of all time is Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. It has some humbler production values too, but that just makes it more charming for me.
I've got a couple of movies that are on my favorites list that are there just because they blew me away at the theater, but I'm not sure other people would think they deserved to be on best of the year list. I'll put Damn Yankees on the "to be seen" list though because I'd love to see Tab Hunter in a good movie after having watched the documentary.

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ecarle, Damn Yankees was my favorite film of 1958..... in 1958. I think I prefer Vertigo more recently.

I recall having read the book The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant (what a spoiler of a title!) and the film follows the story very closely but Broadway glitz is added and the gray, grim tone of the novel was deleted - the book emphasizes the emptiness of the lives Lola and Joe lived before their deal with the Devil, and which they return to in the end.

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ecarle, Damn Yankees was my favorite film of 1958..... in 1958.

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Ha. I think that's a great line. I first saw Damn Yankees back in the 60s', when it played that "nine times a week" gig on The Million Dollar Movie. I really enjoyed it and then...it disappeared. For a LONG time. I caught it again almost by accident in the 70's on this bizarre thing called "The CBS Late Night Movie" which mixed old movies like Damn Yankees with newer things like Columbo re-runs.

"Damn Yankees" was, frankly, just as "missing" as Vertigo for many years and I think I only caught up with it again on VHS in the 80's.

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I think I prefer Vertigo more recently.


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I must admit that Vertigo took years to "grow on me"(unlike Psycho or The Birds or NXNW, its not really a story for a teenager or pre-teen to enjoy), and that Damn Yankees has a "studio factory" white bread feel to it that Vertigo avoids entirely. In fact, I will throw out this "warning" on Damn Yankees: I think it has too much plot between the great musical numbers; I own the film on DVD and I tend to skip the exposition.


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I recall having read the book The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant (what a spoiler of a title!)

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Ha.

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and the film follows the story very closely but Broadway glitz is added and the gray, grim tone of the novel was deleted - the book emphasizes the emptiness of the lives Lola and Joe lived before their deal with the Devil, and which they return to in the end.

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That's interesting. I think the movie as we have it shares some of that melancholy about Lola and Joe. We're told that the gorgeous Lola was once the ugliest woman in her city before she made her deal(and we SEE her that way when the Devil turns her back), and Joe is just about the oldest looking 40-year old in movies(he has dark baggy eyes; looks about 65.) One interesting thing about Damn Yankees is the difference between Old Joe(a grouch who fixates on baseball and ignores his wife) and Young Joe(a very nice and polite young man who goes out of his way to comfort that same wife.)

At the film's end, the Devil has turned Lola into a gorgeous woman again(but he can always renege) and Old Joe seems as grouchy as ever even as he newly appreciates his wife. The undertone is: the Devil makes his deals with desperate people. Still, the Devil loses this one; Joe gets to keep his soul.

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A little bit of "parlor game playing" with my yearly lists, centered around Damn Yankees and the movies of the years around it.

Here are my favorites of the 1950s

Sunset Boulevard
Strangers on a Train
High Noon
The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms
Rear Window
To Catch a Thief
The Wrong Man
12 Angry Men
Damn Yankees
North by Northwest

As you can see, I give the "Hitchcock run" of three in a row to Rear Window, To Catch a Thief, and The Wrong Man. Since Strangers on a Train and NXNW get two other slots, this is rather like my current picking of QT movies as Number One most of the time. I simply like what Hitchcock did better than what others do. But I have other favorites in those years I picked the Hitchcocks:

1954: On the Waterfront, Them, The Caine Mutiny
1955: Marty, Bad Day at Black Rock, The Trouble With Harry
1956: The Man Who Knew Too Much, Giant, Picnic

Them, along with The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms and The Thing from Another World(1951) are my nod to "childhood SciFi horror favorites" which I remember well from my childhood but ALSO see as well written and constructed from an "adult standpoint"(much as our modern A movies like Spielberg's War of the Worlds, Jackson's King Kong, and some of the MCU movies function well for kids and adults.

Damn Yankees gets my top vote for 1958, but Vertigo is right behind it. And then comes Touch of Evil -- a late-breaking tour de force for Orson Welles(with Janet Leigh menaced in a motel with a weird keeper)...but a bit light on plot and heavy on art. I love Touch of Evil for "elements"(the opening crane shot, Marlene Dietrich's look and lines) but it is a bit incoherent and inconsequential.

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With North by Northwest in 1959 and Psycho less than a year later in summer 1960, my list reaches a wild juncture: the movies are less than a year apart, but NXNW is my favorite film of the entire 50s and Psycho is my favorite film of the entire 60's. And it FITS. Even if we say the 50's stretched to JFK's assassination year of 1963, we have NXNW offering a glamourous epic farewell to the fifties and the "old" kind of Hitchcock spy thriller, and Psycho "opening the door to the sixties" and a more radical, violent age on screen and in real life.

1959 and 1960: I can't always stretch out to a Top Ten, but these two years had many movies that excited and engaged me as much as the two Hitchcock pictures:

1959:

North by Northwest
Rio Bravo
Anatomy of a Murder
Some Like It Hot

1960

Psycho
The Apartment
The Magnificent Seven
Spartacus

..and truth be told, for 1959, in recent years, I've grown more partial to the "buddy group" camaraderie of Rio Bravo than to the one-man-against-the-world suspense of NXNW. I say that even as I find Rio Bravo to be well LESS a cinematic achievement than NXNW(I especially find the opening silent sequence of Rio Bravo to almost be laughable.)

The final time a Hitchcock film WAS my favorite of the year was 1960 and Psycho.

As for the post Psycho Hitchcock's, I'm pretty clear on which one actually hold slots "down the list":

1972: My favorite film was The Godfather. My second favorite film was Frenzy(as much for the comeback reviews and Hitchcock appearances as for the movie itself.)

1976: My favorite film was The Shootist. My second favorite film was Family Plot. These feelings only grew a few years later when John Wayne died in 1979 and Hitchcock died in 1980. Then we knew, conclusively: The Shootist was Wayne's final film, and Family Plot was Hitchcock's. Hitchcock's film was weaker(it had an older director) but Hitchcock's film was definitively a HITCHCOCK film -- for the last time.


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1963: I know that Charade(a Hitchcockian thriller to be sure, with a great cast) is my favorite. I know that A Mad Mad World is my second favorite(and sometimes feels so big and brassy that it should be my favorite.) But next comes The Birds -- which fascinates me a bit, because here, even as Charade is in the To Catch A Thief/NXNW tradition...Hitchcock has moved on to SciFi, special effects and family psychodrama.

And those are the only post-Psycho Hitchcock pictures for which I have "near top of the list" affection.

Marnie, Torn Curtain and Topaz are all favorites of mine from their years (1964, 1966 and 1969) but well down the list from other films that I liked more. 1964 and 1969 each had so many great movies, that I expect Marnie and Topaz "barely" make my lists. 1966 was a weaker year, so it is conceivable that Torn Curtain COULD be Number Two(after Number One The Professionals.)

As for Hitchcocks work of the 20s, 30s, and 40s: I don't maintain personal favorites lists for EVERY YEAR of those decades, and I can't give Notorious(a favorite) the Number One slot for 1946(that goes to Best Years of Our Lives), nor Shadow of a Doubt(a favorite) the Number One slot for 1943(that would go to Casablanca.) I'd say my Hitchcock Love starts pretty solidly with Strangers on a Train and then picks up pretty much every movie he made from there to Family Plot.

Oh, well, enough of THIS. But I tell ya, practically every title I have typed in this post and the ones above it, somehow hit the "pleasure center" of my brain. Great movies. Great memories. Even of the bleak "Wrong Man."

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1955: Marty, Bad Day at Black Rock, The Trouble With Harry
I just watched Bad Day At Black Rock for, it seems, the first time. I thought I'd seen it before but in my head it was an Anthony Mann picture with James Stewart... I saw a lot of Mann films close together a couple of decades ago and except for those I've gone back to like Man of the West and Man from Laramie or those I've rewatched bits of for Psycho/Hitch-related purposes (Laramie again, Tin Star, The Furies) it seems I've blurred together memories, botched titles, etc..

Anyhow, surprise first viewing of BDABR.... it was a blast! Abstract and cool and beautifully shot and composed for widescreen especially in its first half hour, BDABR rockets along fusing bits of the Western with bits of noir and in all sort of moments anticipating where action&thriller movies would be going over the next 20+ years: Tracy's laconic one-armed vet breaks out both the karate and the molotov cocktail to win his smack-downs! The cold-blooded killing of Anne Francis's character... Hello 1962 and 1971. (One slight problem: set in 1945, it's hard to believe that Tracy was so recently on the front lines in Italy. He's too old to be a WW2 grunt. Even Robert Ryan seems too old to be playing someone who was first in line to enlist only 4 years before....so some age suspension of disbelief required. Both actors are great so it's certainly worth suspending!) There are bits of Rio Bravo-like business as Tracy assembles his motley crew of helpers, and bad guys spread out in Leone-ish arrays in the space of the cinemascope wide-screen. Good film and absolute proof that a lot of the virtues of the Western could survive into modern times especially if you keep a western/south-western landscape in view.

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Slightly relatedly (BDABR is discussed), I recently ran across this guy's videos:
https://vimeo.com/switzke
He makes vids on various topics but he has a series of 1/2 hour videos on Django/Hateful 8-period QT called 'Tarantino goes West' that are especially interesting. He covers all manner of sources and influences in ways that I found pretty illuminating. Recommended.

Update: The Second 'Tarantino goes West' vid. is particularly outstanding. It's made me really jazzed about tracking down various tiers of minor westerns and has filled me with ideas for rewatches of classics from Hawks, Carpenter, Hill, Hathaway, Corbucci, and so on.

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He makes vids on various topics but he has a series of 1/2 hour videos on Django/Hateful 8-period QT called 'Tarantino goes West' that are especially interesting. He covers all manner of sources and influences in ways that I found pretty illuminating. Recommended.

Update: The Second 'Tarantino goes West' vid. is particularly outstanding. It's made me really jazzed about tracking down various tiers of minor westerns and has filled me with ideas for rewatches of classics from Hawks, Carpenter, Hill, Hathaway, Corbucci, and so on.

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I'm on my way.

It is unfortunate that one must accept in the "package deal" of enjoying a QT movie, his penchant for ultra violence, the N word, and a certain lingering sadism that he always seems ready to brush away without taking responsibility for it...given his real talent for finding the roots of American and international film and doing things with them. (The opening "Jesus in the snow" travelling shot and Morricone music in Hateful Eight are a "for the ages" credit sequence, IMHO.)

I still don't see him as the copycat others do. For instance, evidently the plot of The Hateful Eight is lifted from an episode of an old TV series called "The Rebel," but I will bet beyond a doubt that a 60s' TV series didn't allow for the characterizations, Omni-directional racism(observed, not extolled) and violence of QT's film. Nor for a lot of the great dialogue. Though I hear he lifted one line from an old episode of The Virginian...and then ACKNOWLEDGED that in interviews. He liked the line, he rescued the line from oblivion, he saved it for posterity, re-written a bit: "Two measly bullets, and that's the end of Mexican Bob."

And I assume if what he took from The Rebel was actionable, lawyers have been consulted and royalties have been paid.

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I just watched Bad Day At Black Rock for, it seems, the first time. I thought I'd seen it before but in my head it was an Anthony Mann picture with James Stewart...

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Its those semi-generic Western titles. And intriguingly(of course), Bad Day at Black Rock SOUNDS like an 1880's Western title, but the film is fairly modern(not set in its release year of 1955 though,as I recall -- '45?)

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I saw a lot of Mann films close together a couple of decades ago and except for those I've gone back to like Man of the West and Man from Laramie or those I've rewatched bits of for Psycho/Hitch-related purposes (Laramie again, Tin Star, The Furies) it seems I've blurred together memories, botched titles, etc..

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Happens all the time to me.

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Anyhow, surprise first viewing of BDABR....

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First times are fun

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it was a blast! Abstract and cool and beautifully shot and composed for widescreen especially in its first half hour, BDABR rockets along fusing bits of the Western with bits of noir and in all sort of moments anticipating where action&thriller movies would be going over the next 20+ years

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Absolutely. In addition to modernizing the Western, this is an Eastwood/Charles Bronson picture years before their time; and if there is perhaps one problem with the film today, its that Spencer Tracy has to hold back for most of the film, and can't wreak quite the bloody vengeance that Clint and Charles(or Chuck Norris or Steven Segal) would get to do(though that Molotov cocktail is effective, and his judo take-down of Ernie Borgnine is wickedly plausible.) The big difference between the Tracy film and those that would follow: all the bad guys survive for arrest; even the ultra-evil Ryan(and seeing early-grade Best Actors Lee Marvin and Borgnine AS the henchmen vs Best Actor Tracy, has only increased the value of this movie).

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The cold-blooded killing of Anne Francis's character... Hello 1962 and 1971.

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You mean like..The Manchurian Candidate and Dirty Harry(or better, Get Carter)?

I love the line exchange:

Anne Francis: Why do you have to kill ME?

Robert Ryan: I have to start with SOMEBODY.

Its mean, but its funny...and RR here is almost a "1955 Scorpio Killer" in his willingness to kill a woman(albeit a compromised one.)

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(One slight problem: set in 1945, it's hard to believe that Tracy was so recently on the front lines in Italy. He's too old to be a WW2 grunt. Even Robert Ryan seems too old to be playing someone who was first in line to enlist only 4 years before....so some age suspension of disbelief required. Both actors are great so it's certainly worth suspending!)

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All true. Both the actors' ages and how they overcome it by sheer greatness.

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There are bits of Rio Bravo-like business as Tracy assembles his motley crew of helpers,

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Including Rio Bravo helper to come...Walter Brennan...more serious here. The film makes a point about how OLD most of Tracy's helpers are.

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and bad guys spread out in Leone-ish arrays in the space of the cinemascope wide-screen.

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Its one of those movies for which Cinemascope was made. No better way to film it.

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Good film and absolute proof that a lot of the virtues of the Western could survive into modern times especially if you keep a western/south-western landscape in view.

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Yes, its all there -- saving the past and making the future.

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NOTE IN PASSING:

I'm currently finishing a book about the making of Giant (1956) and I've read some books on Spencer Tracy(including coverage of BDATR), and this trivia connection crosses over:

James Dean famously got "Jett Rink" as his final role in movies, but director George Stevens offered it first to ...Alan Ladd, his "Shane" star. Ladd turned the role down because it felt too "supporting" -- he wanted the lead that Rock Hudson got.

Ladd regretted turning Giant down for years, and George Stevens told him : "If you'd taken the role, you would have saved me a lot of aggravation." Namely: James Dean.

Meanwhile, Spencer Tracy was the first choice of MGM's Dore Schary and director John Sturges for BDABR, but he stalled and quibbled and refused to commit so finally he was told: "Well, if you can't decide soon, we're offering it to Alan Ladd." That put Tracy over the top, and he signed.

So Alan Ladd...who got to be in SOME classics, in any event, missed out on two: Giant (his fault) and BDABR(not his fault.)

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The cold-blooded killing of Anne Francis's character... Hello 1962 and 1971.
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You mean like..The Manchurian Candidate and Dirty Harry(or better, Get Carter)?
Those were exactly the totemic films I had in mind. At least from our vantage point now, BDABR points directly at what's coming.

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In the book, Lola wasn't the ugliest woman, she was just a typical plain, old maid type. And the scene where she gets her beauty back at the end doesn't appear.

One change I love in the play/movie vs the book is how the Devil is conspiring against the Washington team in the climactic game, but divine intervention of another sort saves the game with Joe's near impossible catch. In the book, Washington wins the game because of a bad umpire's call, something which the author notes not even the Devil has the power to overcome.

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In the book, Lola wasn't the ugliest woman, she was just a typical plain, old maid type.

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Well, I guess a movie musical had to overdo it.

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And the scene where she gets her beauty back at the end doesn't appear.

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Its a heartwarming scene at the end, and I like how as she fades away, she looks with benevolence on Old Joe and his wife, re-united and singing away. BUT: I always figured that the Devil had a hold on her, he could still revoke her looks at any time. SHE's trapped; Joe got out in time.

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One change I love in the play/movie vs the book is how the Devil is conspiring against the Washington team in the climactic game, but divine intervention of another sort saves the game with Joe's near impossible catch. In the book, Washington wins the game because of a bad umpire's call, something which the author notes not even the Devil has the power to overcome.

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That's funny and ironic about the ump's call in the book, but I actually saw Old Joe catching the big catch as "plausible"-- suddenly, per the Devil's removing the spell, he's old and instantly out of shape(honestly, a 75-year old 45-year old), but he manages to make the catch and then collapse in pain to the ground before running away to return home. I felt -- OLD JOE made the catch, applied the physical effort. I admit I like the idea that all that physical effort as a "young man" returns Joe to his wife as a physically torn up man...all the injuries of age caught up with him.

Whimsical stuff, Damn Yankees, hocus pocus and spells and deals...but so much fun.



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And I'll share a little something: during some of the more traumatic personal events of my life -- including losses of loved ones -- I've popped Damn Yankees in the DVD player to watch and listen to (You've Gotta Have) "Heart," a song that is at once of great uplift and comedy. Works a little bit, at least, to raise my spirits every time. And I remember it from my long ago childhood; show tunes were on the radio A LOT back then.

BTW, Lola's big number is the exotic vamp "Whatever Lola Wants," but I prefer her brassy earlier tune -- sung to the Devil -- in which she bespeaks of her unbeaten record AT vamping -- and destroying -- her male victims. "An Emphasis on the Latter," I believe it is called ("A little this-a, a little that-a, with an emphasis on the latta").

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I'll have to go back and look at that scene again. FOr some reason I recall Joe falling before making the catch and the ball landing in his glove while he's flat on his back.

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I was not born when Anthony Perkins made most of his movies.

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I am likely a lot older than you, and I was unborn/baby/toddler age when he started out, only really came to know who he was when Psycho got its first re-release in 1965.

I was alive and older and moviegoing for all of Perkins career from 1970 to his death in 1992. I might add that Perkins rather disappeared from American studio films for most of the 60s after Psycho...he worked in Europe a lot, and came back to America for the thriller "Pretty Poison" in 1968. (He's a little bit psycho in it, but he's got a girlfriend, Tuesday Weld, who is a lot worse.) From about 1970 on, Perkins was a character star in movies(supporting other people) and a TV movie star.

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I probably saw Psycho for the first time in the 1980s on late night TV.

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Everybody comes to that movie "some year"! You are an "80's Psycho viewer."

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The only other movie I can remember seeing of his when I was growing up was Mahogany, another movie that aired quite a bit on tv.

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From the 70's, with Diana Ross. I've never seen it, but I think I read that Perkins was willing to play a gay man in it. It got a hit song on the radio, so Tony was "touched by radio greatness."

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It wasn't until later that I saw he was a very versatile actor.

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By the time his career was finished, that was proved. He did matinee idol types and psychopaths; he did musicals; he did comedy surprisingly well. And he split his time among American studio films, European films, and Broadway.

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I absolutely adore the movie Friendly Persuasion and he's excellent in that as the young son who wants to prove himself as a soldier in The Civil War.

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That got him his only Oscar nomination(Supporting.) He says the presenter opened the envelope and said "And the winner is Anthony --" and Tony got up and heard "...Quinn...in Lust for Life." A lot of us around here think he should have been nominated -- and won -- Best Actor...for a particular movie we like to talk about around here.

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I never found him to be that attractive.

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I write all the time of Perkins' "beauty" -- particularly during the Arbogast sequence -- but he could come off as too skinny and wispy an ineffectual even with those looks. Plus all those bird-like quirky mannerisms he developed over the years.

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He's handsome but I always thought he was way too thin to be appealing, just a personal opinion of mine.

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And others. Perkins himself noted that he looked ridiculous in the movie "Green Mansions" overpowering(and stabbing to death!) a muscle bound Indian played by Henry Silva. The two men laughed a lot shooting that fight scene.

Perkins was the favorite of young teenage girls, one of those "harmless young beauties" that teens love and abandon.

As the sixties progressed, it was hard to picture Perkins in such standard male hero roles as those given to Newman, McQueen, Eastwood and Connery. (Though Perkins did say that Hitchcock wanted him first for the Paul Newman role in Torn Curtain; Universal wanted a bigger star.)

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Some say that playing Norman Bates "ruined" Tony's career -- no more heroes or romantic leads. I think without Norman on his resume, Perkins' career would have died out -- like Tab Hunter's -- early in the sixties as a male ingenue type.

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He died so young, it's a shame.

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Absolutely. 60 isn't very old at all. And he still seemed very young and boyish even months from his death(notably in a great interview Perkins did on American Movie Classics right before his death. Because he was so skinny to start with, AIDS didn't noticeably reduce him as it did Rock Hudson.)

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Here you go again with some interesting tid bits of movie info. That's a terrific story about him and Henry Silva! I really think your knowledge is amazing. I'd love if you did a blog but then you wouldn't have time to post on here and I love reading your contributions. It's good stuff.

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Here you go again with some interesting tid bits of movie info. That's a terrific story about him and Henry Silva! I really think your knowledge is amazing.

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Well, here's how I did it. Over the years, either I have bought books for myself on Hitchcock and on favorite actors...or friends and family members have bought them for me. So I ended up with a lot of books on this trivia. I've read them, and I guess I offering "the gift" of passing on these stories I have read. I sometimes suggest that maybe the quotes in the books are false(spoken by people who don't really know what happened, or have an axe to grind), but I'm just passing them on as interesting.

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In this case: I own two books about Anthony Perkins. The more "respectable" one is called "Split Image" and came off an American press. The other one, I can't remember the name now, it was ordered for me out of Britain and mailed to me by a family member.

And in one of those books, I read the story about Perkins and Silva laughing their heads off while trying to enact a scene in which the thin, spindly Perkins out-wrestles Silva, twists the bigger man's muscular arms back, and stabs him to death. When you think about it, it was movies like THIS that were ruining Perkins' career before Psycho gave him the proper "fit"(Norman stabs people, but doesn't need to overpower them, he surprises them.)

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It was also in one of those books that I read the "notorious" tale of Perkins finally being bedded by a woman on the set of Judge Roy Bean. I suppose it is salacious gossip, but it offers a peek at how Hollywood operated in those days. Perkins was struggling with his sexual identity, Paul Newman thought it would be "fun" to throw a woman at him, the woman(Victoria Principal) was willing. And whaddya know, the next year Perkins got married to a woman and sired some kids and...in the LGBT community, evidently the Tony Perkins saga was one "to come to grips with." By the time his life ended, Tony had fully embraced all of his sides.

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I'd love if you did a blog but then you wouldn't have time to post on here and I love reading your contributions. It's good stuff.

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Well, thank you very much. I think these posts will suffice for now. I split them between passing on all these trivia nuggets I have read in books(and newspapers and magazines), and offering some of my own opinions. I try not to plagiarize the material I have read. I'm really "sharing clips" and offering opinions. I guess that's like a blog.

But I'm also here to chat, right?

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What I should have said here was, I knew Anthony Perkins from Psycho and Mahogany, two roles where he played really disturbed people. Later on when AMC and TCM played all his earlier movies, I really got to see the great variety of roles he had. He was typecast by me only because those were the only two movies I had seen him in. It wasn't till later that I saw the westerns and romances he had done. It threw a new light on him, for me. I would have loved to have seen him age into a great character actor. He could have done some wonderful things.

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What I should have said here was, I knew Anthony Perkins from Psycho and Mahogany, two roles where he played really disturbed people. Later on when AMC and TCM played all his earlier movies, I really got to see the great variety of roles he had. He was typecast by me only because those were the only two movies I had seen him in.

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I see your point now.

Yes, its the "big issue" about Perkins accepting the horrific role of Norman Bates in 1960. He had not played any villains. He'd played romantic ingenues and he'd been put in a couple of Westerns, but only AS a shy, milquetoasty guy who "becomes a man" under fire.

And then he took Psycho and it pretty much all changed.

And yet: Perkins turned down a lot of horror roles after Psycho. If you look at his resume, he was in romances(quite a few romances, with Ingrid Bergman and Melina Mercouri and Blythe Danner) and dramas and a few thrillers(Five Miles to Midnight, Pretty Poison.)

In 1970 -- ten years after Psycho -- Perkins did his first "Movie of the Week." It was a very mild thriller called "How Awful About Allen," and, except for how great Perkins looked in the lead it was...awful.

From then on, Perkins played a lot of weird people(the weirdest may be the sick preacher in Crimes of Passion, of which Roger Ebert wrote "this proves that Anthony Perkins won't turn down any role because he thinks it is bad for his career).

Though I think he also played the husband in "First You Cry," the true story of a woman's bout with breast cancer, and he was Inspector Javert in a version of the non-musical Les Miserables. He held off on horror for a long time: Psycho II.

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It wasn't till later that I saw the westerns and romances he had done. It threw a new light on him, for me.

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I always try to imagine how Anthony Perkins "played" on screen before he became Norman. Probably like our nicer actors today.

Recall that Michael Caine turned down playing a sexual psychopath for Hitchcock in Frenzy. One of the reasons is likely that he saw what happened to the career of Anthony Perkins. (Also, an aged Hitchcock had more flops on his resume when he came to Caine.)

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I would have loved to have seen him age into a great character actor. He could have done some wonderful things.

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He was only 60 when he died. He could have done character work for another 20 years, at least.

One role I can see Anthony Perkins in is "Bert Cooper," the aged head of the advertising agency "Sterling/Cooper" in the TV show "Mad Men." Robert Morse -- a Perkins peer who had acted with him when both were young men, in "The Matchmaker" -- took the role as an old man. I can see Perkins in the role.

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Back on the Tab Hunter watch:

For my summer reading, I have eschewed current events(which only disgust and depress me), and again elected to purchase books about the making of certain movies "back in the day". Sometimes I think "Alfred Hitchcock and the Making of Psycho" started it all (back in 1990.)

Some new books of this nature I found at the bookstore on the making of:

Casablanca(1943)
Giant(1956)
2001 (1968)
Caddyshack(1980)

I chose, for now..Giant and Caddyshack. The 2001 book is a bit pricey.

Its interesting comparing the production of the big epic Giant under the Old Guard regime of Jack Warner in the fifties to the production of the looseknit comedy of Caddyshack under the anything goes, drug-fuelled production of the 70's(for 1980 release.) Caddyshack was produced by a guy named Jon Peters, who famously went from being "hairdresser" to the lady stars, to Barbra Streisand's lover, to a producer. He was/is a macho type whom, we learn in the Caddyshack book, did his part to advance MeToo ism. (When star Cindy Morgan agreed to do a nude scene but balked at Playboy photographers on the set, Peters had her removed from the posters and other promotional materials.)

Giant was produced and directed by George Stevens, one of those really famous Hollywood directors who got the respect that Hitchcock did not -- and who was famous for filming key scenes 100 times from every conceivable angle.



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Ive seen the very, very long Giant a time or two, and overall , it is a good picture, with some great scenes you never forget, most of which involve James Dean in them (walking off his property, or covered in oil, or as a drunk old millionaire knocking over everything at his hotel), but one of which involves Rock Hudson -- in old age make-up -- gallantly fighting a bigoted diner owner over his mistreatment of Mexican-Americans in the diner (and losing, but gaining wife Liz Taylor's eternal love and respect.) That diner fight bears all the marks of Stevens' multiple angles -- we see the brutal fight from about every POV in the diner (its a little like the Hitchcockian montages of Psycho and The Birds, but with more long shots.)

The book has a "Making of Psycho" eye for detail and gets what interviews can still be gotten(most everybody who worked on the picture is dead), and uses old interviews more liberally.

But eventually, the book centers on the teaming up of three very disparate stars: Liz Taylor(a veteran actress since childhood, just coming into her own as an actress); Rock Hudson(a hard-working near nobody at Universal elevated massively to this Warners epic) and James Dean(mercurial and mysterious and either praised as great or hated as a poser by his colleages).

Each star gets a chapter about their career going into Giant, and with Rock Hudson, there is mention of his being discovered by one Henry Willson, who specialized in "beefcake" and who worked with a number of gay male stars(but not all of them were-- John Gavin was a Willson client.)

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I will confess here that there are two specific areas in which I am always leery of posting upon around here: matters of overweight(as when I try to describe the more heavyset Norman Bates of the Bloch novel) and matters of gayness (which certainly enter into discussions of Tony Perkins as the star of Psycho.) Honestly, I try to be as careful as possible when talking on these topics because I honestly do not want to offend anyone.

Which brings me to this: one of the key interviewees in the Giant book (because he was alive during its writing) is : Tab Hunter. And he talks mainly of his own work with Henry Willson. Evidently Tab Hunter was the second-most lucrative client that Willson had after Rock Hudson...and yet Willson offered up some tabloid dirt on Hunter to prevent tabloid investigation OF Hudson. Willson was willing to sacrifice his second-biggest client to protect his first. (He also served up Rory Calhoun's convict past.)

The Giant book is "giant" in its sweep of the movie's scripting, filming, editing, promotion, Oscar chances, etc. And it is really good about how the original book(by Edna Ferber) was meant as an attack on Texas "arrogance" but ended up yielding a movie that treated the state with a certain respect.

But I must admit it has a little subplot going about how Liz Taylor got along with these actors over the years: Monty Clift, Rock Hudson, James Dean. The three men had certain things in common and the Giant book gets into the trickiness of how all three of these stars handled their sexuality --and how Liz Taylor had a "motherly" love for all of these men.

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So I will leave it there. But I did like Tab Hunter's comment about how , as "Art Gelien" he thought he would escape a Rock Hudson-like monicker. Said Hunter, "I felt at least with a short first name like Art, I'd get to keep it. But Henry Willson said no, and I became Tab." Also , Tab Hunter was considered for some role in Giant, but soon relegated to reading the male roles in screen tests with young actresses.

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Well...with Tab Hunter's passing, we have a very powerful Hollywood producer director about to make a movie about Tab and Tony.

Indeed, it will be CALLED "Tab and Tony." Based on Tab Hunter's autobiography.

The producer is JJ Abrams(Star Wars, Star Trek, yes?) A co-producer is openly gay actor Zachary Quinto(Spock in the Star Trek films, currently on Broadway in a revival of "Boys in the Band.")

The hunt is on for a new Tab and Tony -- how about that guy who played Tony Perkins in "Hitchcock"?

Given JJ Abrams' power, I would figure that this movie actually happens.

It will be interesting to see if we get, yet again, some fictionalized footage of the making of Psycho -- and now, some fictionalized footage of the filming of "Damn Yankees."

Speaking of Damn Yankees, I recall how, over a decade or so ago, Harvey Weinstein angled to re-make Damn Yankees -- with Kevin Spacey as the Devil(his hair and skull were very Ray Walston-like) and Catherine Zeta-Jones as Lola. Didn't happen. Likely now...won't.

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Bump.

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..and a note in passing.

Its three years later, and the love story "Tab and Tony" has yet to be made. Perhaps too controversial even in this age?

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Another Tony Perkins/baseball connection (from the NY Times obit on Hunter): Hunter played "Jimmy Piersall, the major league baseball player who came back from a nervous breakdown, in a well-reviewed adaptation of the book “Fear Strikes Out” on the series “Climax.” But Warner Bros. refused to buy the movie rights to “Fear Strikes Out” for its teenage idol, and the film was made by Paramount, with Mr. Hunter’s sometime companion Anthony Perkins."

Hunter also played a murderer on Playhouse 90, based on a real life home invader/killer who bludgeoned two women to death in separate home invasions and was executed in California in the gas chamber.

The Times obit also noted his similarity to another actor: "In his autobiography, Mr. Hunter said he had heard that when people mistook Mr. (Troy) Donahue for him, Mr. Donahue would sometimes correct them by explaining, 'I’m the straight one.'"

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Another Tony Perkins/baseball connection (from the NY Times obit on Hunter): Hunter played "Jimmy Piersall, the major league baseball player who came back from a nervous breakdown, in a well-reviewed adaptation of the book “Fear Strikes Out” on the series “Climax.” But Warner Bros. refused to buy the movie rights to “Fear Strikes Out” for its teenage idol, and the film was made by Paramount, with Mr. Hunter’s sometime companion Anthony Perkins."

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Well...there ya go. That's some pretty interesting trivia. I had no idea that Hunter had played Jimmy Piersoll first, on TV. "Fear Strikes Out" was a very important movie for Tony Perkins...because Hitchcock saw the film and made the "mental note" to use Perkins in something someday. I'll bet Hitchcock was ALREADY thinking "psychotic villain," too -- something along the lines of nutty, boyish Robert Walker in Strangers on a Train. When the book Psycho came to his attention, Hitchcock looked at the character of Norman Bates -- fat, forty , bespectacled -- and saw..Anthony Perkins BECAUSE he had Perkins in his head from "Fear Strikes Out." Perkins himself confirmed this in an interview.

But hey, if Tab Hunter had done the movie of "Fear Strikes Out," might Hitchcock have thought of HUNTER for Norman? In any event, Perkins might not have been on Hitchcock's mind for Norman without "Fear Strikes Out."

The coincidences continue: Tab Hunter lost out on playing a baseball player in 1957 (movie of Fear Strikes Out), but as we know, Tab played a baseball player in Damn Yankees in 1958. And then Tony Perkins played THAT baseball player, in Damn Yankees, on stage in Boston in 1960. Interesting how back then you could get a major movie star out in summer stock.

CONT

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swanstep recently celebrated the films of 1957 around here; two of those films ended up influencing the casting of Psycho. One was Fear Strikes Out, for the reasons above. The other was 12 Angry Men, which Hitchcock watched to cast Arbogast. Screenwriter Joe Stefano had recommended Martin Balsam for the part; Hitchcock watched 12 Angry Men to look at Balsam in action on film. I wonder, though, if some of newbie director Sidney Lumet's black-and-white compositions , angles, and close-ups in 12 Angry Men influenced Hitchcock in the shooting of Psycho(they look alike in some scenes.) Also, I wonder if Hitchcock considered any of the OTHER jurors in that movie for Arbogast(Jack Warden or Jack Klugman -- or maybe Lee "Exorcist" J. Cobb.)

But also: Fear Strikes Out is the true story("based on") of a baseball player(Perkins) who was so bullied and browbeaten by his father(Karl Malden) into a sports career that Piersoll had a breakdown. The kind and erudite psychiatrist who treats Perkins in the film is played by...Adam Williams...who would be the hulking , near-silent henchman "Valerian the Knifeman" in Hitchcock's North by Northwest. Great contrasting work by Williams -- I always took him for a near-silent thug based on NXNW, I was surprised to see him thinking and talking in Fear Strikes Out.

And Ed Binns -- one of the 12 Angry Men -- also ended up in NXNW...he's one of the two Glen Cove cops who investigate Grant's story.

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Hunter also played a murderer on Playhouse 90, based on a real life home invader/killer who bludgeoned two women to death in separate home invasions and was executed in California in the gas chamber.

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This mention of TV series "Climax" and "Playhouse 90" reminds me that I am old -- but not THAT old. I believe that those TV "live dramas" were over and done by the 60's, which is when I started watching TV as a kid. I READ about those dramatic series over the years, and saw some of them on "kinescope", but...before my time.

Hitchcock spoke ill of these series in their heyday "they all look like filmed dress rehearsals" but they were the source of a great many new stars(like Paul Newman, Eva Marie Saint, and Jack Lemmon) and new directors(like John Frankenheimer and George Roy Hill) and great dramas which , in some cases , were immortalized as movies(Marty, 12 Angry Men, The Bachelor Party.)

Still...I missed that era. I did see Martin Balsam on the Mike Douglas show one time talking about appearing on one of those live dramas. Balsam said his character was to leap out of a window to his off screen death. He did so...but bounced back up into "window view" because of too springy a mattress to fall on! On LIVE TV. Balsam told the story with great gusto , laughter and comic timing. I wish I could have heard him talk about falling down the stairs like that, but he never did interviews on Psycho.

The era I got instead was the "ABC Movie of the Week" in the 70's. A number of those "movies"(which weren't REALLY movies -- they ran about an hour without commercials) were well-reviewed as classics of their kind, particularly the "issue" movies like That Certain Summer(about gay matters) and Someone i Touched(a husband brings home VD from a hooker, to his wife.)


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Thrillers were part of the "Movies of the Week," but most of them weren't very thrilling. They didn't have the budgets for big action , or very good scripts. The infamous exception was Steven Spielberg's "Duel," which was pretty much "the crop duster scene as a full-length movie" and made Steve's name. ("Duel" in 1971 hit about 8 months ahead of "Frenzy" in theaters in 1972; I remember feeling Spielberg heading in as Hitchcock headed out.)

I also always recommend Richard Boone and Michael Dunn as a "Mutt and Jeff" pair of 40's detectives in "Goodnight My Love" -- a 1972 ABC movie of the week that launched guilty pleasure Peter Hyams as a writer-director of middle-brow stuff like Capricorn One and The Star Chamber.

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The Times obit also noted his similarity to another actor: "In his autobiography, Mr. Hunter said he had heard that when people mistook Mr. (Troy) Donahue for him, Mr. Donahue would sometimes correct them by explaining, 'I’m the straight one."

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Hmm..a reminder that some of the gay actors in Hollywood(but not all) were "open secrets." Producers and directors and other stars knew who they were...and eventually, the public figured it out as well. Word of mouth.

I read that once Rock Hudson's gay status "got out," he stopped going to red carpet movie premieres because male bigots would yell gay slurs at him.

When Psycho II came out in 1983, Tony Perkins got a better-late-than-never cover of People magazine, standing in front of the Psycho house. In the interview within, Tony spoke of early gay encounters, but contended that he was now married to a woman, had children, that was all behind him. This interview evidently bugged "all sides," but it was interesting to see him take his newfound "Psycho place in the sun" and to try to articulate his complex life.

All these years later, these are still complex human issues, to be sure. People are interesting.

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I also always recommend Richard Boone and Michael Dunn as a "Mutt and Jeff" pair of 40's detectives in "Goodnight My Love" -- a 1972 ABC movie of the week that launched guilty pleasure Peter Hyams as a writer-director of middle-brow stuff like Capricorn One and The Star Chamber.
This reminds me to mention that I finally got around to seeing Hyams' Outland (1981) w/ Connery. All my life I'd been hearing that it was this so-so movie that was essentially High Noon in space. Well, it's so-so alright (albeit with some fun sets and design elements) but the HN comparison only really holds for about 20 minutes tops, and even then the 'ticking clock' aspect doesn't really do much for the film (we never really feel that Connery is stressed the way Cooper is). The whole first hour of Outland is a mystery that has absolutely no counterpart in HN and, of course divergences like Connery being a new marshall in town whereas Gary Cooper's Kane is retiring, and Connery has a (long term) wife, but she has no arc and plays no role in the action, i.e. she is deeply unlike Grace Kelly's new wife who's quaker/pacifist, who'll now have to learn to shoot and break with her values to save her husband etc.. In sum, Outland has been subject to 40 years of lazy reviews and comparisons (the moviechat board on it is full of people saying O is just HN!). It's a completely different story & film from HN - end of. I've tried to set things straight over at Outland's board:
https://moviechat.org/tt0082869/Outland/5b3a810c4e81ed0014a757a4/How-similar-to-High-Noon?reply=60b0d135b9b97568bd14b645
We'll see.

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In sum, Outland has been subject to 40 years of lazy reviews and comparisons (the moviechat board on it is full of people saying O is just HN!). It's a completely different story & film from HN - end of. I've tried to set things straight over at Outland's board:
https://moviechat.org/tt0082869/Outland/5b3a810c4e81ed0014a757a4/How-similar-to-High-Noon?reply=60b0d135b9b97568bd14b645
We'll see.

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Hmm. I've pondered this. I guess I'll answer here and then duplicate it over at the Outland board.

I think what I want to say is that, while it is not a "pure remake of High Noon," if I were pitching Outland to a movie studio I would STILL say -- "It's High Noon in space." Also, probably -- because I do tend to toss out quick one-sentence takes of movies as a kind of "short hand" in my own posts, I probably called it "High Noon in space," some time, too. But that's OK, I can handle the challenge to that assessment and I offer this in counter:

Right now, it looks like the most faithful remake we have is Van Sant's Psycho. Shot by shot, scene by scene, MOST lines intact and not changed. But with a "twist": Van Sant removed one entire scene(the church scene.) Does that mean it is NOT "shot by shot?"

When Van Sant's Psycho came out, I read that there had been one other "shot by shot" remake -- of The Prisoner of Zenda. So there's THAT one.

In the last 20 years, the NEXT most faithful remake that I have seen is the Coen's "True Grit" of 2010. I'd say that about 80% of the scenes in the remake can be found in 1969's original, including Rooster Cogburn's big joust with four outlaws on horseback (though the Coens cut some lines there and changed "Which will it be?" to "Which will you have?" Huh?) Interesting: the 1969 had two great final scenes, back to back, very emotional, but not in the book. The Coens removed them(the two scenes favored John Wayne as Rooster) and ended THEIR movie just like the book: poorly.

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Things get a bit faith LESS with Jonathan Demme's two wayward remakes -- The Truth About Charlie(from Charade) and The Manchurian Candidate. They go wrong for different reasons. Charade shone as a "Big Star Vehicle"(Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn) and all Demme could get was Mark Wahlberg(pre-stardom) and Thandie Newton. George Clooney and Julia Roberts MIGHT have fit better, but not really -- they didn't have the track record of Grant and Hepburn. Tim Robbins was OK doing a Walter Matthau impression in the Walter Matthau role, but he wasn't as good as Walter Matthau, and the other support villains were colorless. The storyline just sort of fell apart in this one, too.

The Manchurian Candidate? Two big stars alright -- Denzel and Meryl Streep -- but in a real disgrace of a movie, dismantling everything that was great about the original. Plus, hey -- Streep couldn't hold a candle to the villainy of Angela Lansbury's own "Monster Mother" in the original.

Which brings me, indeed, to Outland.

It is clearly NOT a literal remake of High Noon...not like the remakes of Psycho, True Grit and(I guess) The Prisoner of Zenda. Nor does it lift the outlines of the original like The Truth About Charlie and The Manchurian Candidate.

But what it DOES do is to lift the CONCEPT of High Noon, if not the premise: a lone lawman hired to protect the populace of a community(here, a mining camp on a distant planet), is left alone and without support as a villainous corporate villain(in High Noon, "the railroad"; here, I can't remember) sends men to kill him. With a ticking clock.

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Its been a long time since I've seen Outland, but I recall Connery going into a room filled with those miners and saying "I could use a little help" -- and getting no response. Its ENOUGH in the ballpark of High Noon that one remembers the earlier film. And though Connery has no fiancée to help him -- he DOES get the help of the older female doctor(pretty much his only friend on the planet). Its limited help -- the doctor doesn't shoot anyone, but it is help.

Cooper's one-by-one elimination of the hit men in High Noon becomes Connery's elimination of same in Outland(with one "inside man turncoat" to contend with as well.)

Moreover, the movie poster for Outland -- Connery(a very big movie star always, it seemed, in search of a vehicle that was worthy of him; this wasn't quite it) -- with a big shotgun in his hand and a badge. If Alien had been "Psycho in space," (horror) then Outland could be "High Noon in space." I believe they use the term "high concept." And of course, Alien didn't copy any of the characters or plot of Psycho at all -- but it DID copy the "zone of danger, sudden death" operation of Psycho. (With a taste of "Ten Little Indians in Space," too.)

More examples of "high concept": someone called Jaws..."Psycho on the sea." Someone called Jurassic Park "Jaws on dry land." One thing leads to another...no "remake" factors (plot , characters) involved.

I'm not quite sure how Peter Hyams kept getting hired in Hollywood. He usually wrote his own scripts for the movies he directed; he was even listed as the DP of his films. He was a true "auteur," but always in "B" land. I suppose his precedents were guys like Budd Boeticher and Edward Dymtryk and Gordon Douglas...working directors "with a name." And Hyams could (for awhile) attract stars like Connery, Michael Douglas, and Michael Caine to his projects. He ended his career as the in-house director for Jean-Claude Van Damme, but made some of Van Damme's best movies, for what they were. One was called, fittingly enough, "Sudden Death," (Die Hard at the Hockey Playoffs)..one of the better Die Hard ripoff/homages.

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But what it DOES do is to lift the CONCEPT of High Noon, if not the premise: a lone lawman hired to protect the populace of a community(here, a mining camp on a distant planet), is left alone and without support as a villainous corporate villain(in High Noon, "the railroad"; here, I can't remember) sends men to kill him. With a ticking clock.
Maybe I missed something, but as far as I'm aware Frank Miller in High Noon has no connection with the railroad or any other corporate entity, rather he's left as a fairly abstract 'vicious outlaw'/mad dog/murderer that Kane put away 5 years ago (the mechanism by which Miller's been released from prison now is also left pretty vague, but we gather that a pardon was involved and that some fathomless big city silliness wangled that for him - maybe corruption, maybe budget-related shortsightness, maybe a legal technicality).

We *do* learn that (at least as some see it) 'Frank Miller's gang' terrorized and even 'ran the town' before Kane cleaned things up 5 years ago, and even that at least some of the townsfolk still resent that clean up. Maybe Miller was good for their particular business, e.g., in Rosie Ramirez's case Miller was her lover/top customer. (Production Code restrictions forced vagueness about Rosie's status and arrangements, harming the movie.) Still, Frank Miller's no 'corporate villain'. Outland *does* have that sort of villain reflecting the more cynical time when it was made (and spends its whole first hour on the resulting 'what's going on?'/Who's the villain? mystery, all of which has no counterpart in HN).

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One can come up with a very high-level sense of 'shared concept' according to which Psycho/Jaws/Alien are all the same film. And I don't doubt that Outland and HN and lots of other westerns and neo-westerns like Dirty Harry can all be clustered together in the same sort of way.... I guess I don't find such high-level concepts very useful. Look - I'd accept that Outland was usefully comparable to HN if the following two things were true: (1) if the ticking clock ran for almost the whole film, and (2) if O was seriously interested in indicting the 'townspeople' for not helping the Marshall etc. and by extension raising questions about 'us', 'what we would do', etc.. O's mystery side completely undermines our identification with the 'townsfolk' - they're all drugged up and porn-addled from what we see. There's simply no pressure put on *us* by what the townfolk do or don't do in O. Before he flees, the judge who sentenced Miller gives Kane the hard civics lesson about Ancient Greece and modern day Indian Falls - about what democracies actually do. O isn't interested in stuff like that, and so isn't the same sort of film HN is at the sort of middle level I find most illuminating.

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Maybe I missed something, but as far as I'm aware Frank Miller in High Noon has no connection with the railroad or any other corporate entity, rather he's left as a fairly abstract 'vicious outlaw'/mad dog/murderer that Kane put away 5 years ago (the mechanism by which Miller's been released from prison now is also left pretty vague, but we gather that a pardon was involved and that some fathomless big city silliness wangled that for him - maybe corruption, maybe budget-related shortsightness, maybe a legal technicality).

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In my case, I was working not so much from memory, but from a 2003 essay on High Noon by former Washington Post critic Stephen Hunter. I have a book of his reviews(many of which are GREAT -- none greater than his Jackie Brown review), but here he is on the relevant point in High Noon:

BEGIN:

"As the film has it, (outlaw Frank Miller) has been sponsored by some sort of big political machine with an interest in taking over and restoring Hadleyville to its former glory as a profitable sin town. Originally sentenced to hang, Miller was spared the gallows, and now he has been pardoned by 'the politicians up north.' Clear indications of a kind of clout or favor endemic to the big cities. (Miller's) mission is to kill Will Kane and reopen the town for exploitation. That's why the townspeople are so frightened. They realize that Frank stands for the process of urban corruption, not just a random force of violence in the world."

END

Yep, that's where I got my opinion, and you didn't know that swanstep, and again I'm in the position of saying "this isn't a gotcha" but rather that "I read it somewhere." That said, Hunter's paragraph above and your own paragraphs in your post suggest that you certainly get that aspect of Frank Miller's return.

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I suppose it is a matter of degree. If the miners in Outland are already living dead on drugs and uncaring, the stakes aren't the same as in High Noon to "convince the townpeople," but what Connery wants is to RETURN these drugged miners to a semblance of normalcy by getting rid of the drugs(which are driving the miners to suicide.)

ON THE OTHER HAND:

I skimmed some 1981 reviews of Outland and found one by Vincent Canby of the New York Times. I read the review. And nowhere in the entire review did he mention High Noon. So there's one ranking critic of the time who didn't even see High Noon in the last 20 minutes.

I fear this dialogue is running too much risk over "contention over not much at all." But I suppose that what triggered it is that I'm pretty sure I am among those who have short handed Outland as "High Noon" in space, and it certainly IS for the last 20 minutes or so(with the clock) and that's enough for me. Moreover, I don't think the 20 minutes are the ONLY reference to High Noon. Connery's "loner" role as a principled lawman against the world and the roots of the evil pitted against him -- part of it too. I don't think it is a "lazy" reference.

Put it this way: Canby aside, I don't see how one could review Outland and NOT reference High Noon. Its like DePalma's Dressed to Kill. That movie doesn't EXIST without Psycho as a reference point; DePalma couldn't have plotted that "out of thin air." Its the same with Hyams here, I think.

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A little bit on Peter Hyams' "The Star Chamber" with Michael Douglas (1983, when Douglas was easily gotten as a star in minor work; stardom came in 1984 with Romancing the Stone and Oscar a few years later.)

Fox believed that the title "The Star Chamber" led to box office failure because audiences expected "Star Wars" type entertainment. Nope. A "star chamber" is an extralegal gathering of judges. The set-up of The Star Chamber may be "B" and implausible(for Douglas' character at least) but the climax had some things to say that just fit my world view.

So here goes:

Michael Douglas is a young Los Angeles Superior Court judge. He finds himself under all sorts of pressure having to "throw cases out because of technicalities" and eventually one of those "throw outs" frees someone to kill a child. Guilt.

Eventually, the guilt-ridden Douglas is recruited by Hal Holbrook(Hyams' go-to guy for smiling governmental villainy) to join a renegade group of judges who judge defendants who went free, sentences them to death -- and sends a hit man to kill them.

Douglas votes for execution of two crooks -- who he'd set free in his courtroom -- for the child killing. Then he finds out the two crooks did NOT commit the child murder. But the hitman has been sent to kill them.

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SPOILERS FOR THE STAR CHAMBER:

Douglas rushes to the "empty warehouse hideout" of the two crooks to warn them that their lives are in danger. The two crooks -- in control of their "lair" and no longer the well-behaved defendants in the courtroom, basically look Douglas over and speak of several of their OWN judgements:

ONE: "Hey, man, its our JUDGE!" The man who sat over their life-or-death trial is now in THEIR world.

TWO: Douglas can't tell them WHY he knows their lives are in danger (because he voted to send a hitman after them!)

THREE: They don't believe that their Judge would be so nice as to come all the way to their lair -- alone -- to HELP them. What does he REALLY want?

FOUR: They didn't kill the kid, but they ARE brutal thugs. And so they start to give Judge Douglas a merciless beating with intent to kill. Douglas breaks loose and grabs a bottle of nitro(used for drug production) and...our climax is underway.

I always liked that climax -- how the Judge goes to warn the criminals and the criminals(being criminals) have no interest in the "niceties of the law" -- but rather seek to simply beat and kill the judge for his stupidity in coming to their hideout, alone == and their rage for vengeance against the man whose lives he held in his courtroom hands.

I think Hyams was working from a novel ,here. Everything was too "B" to be , say , Oscar worthy, but for "pulp," this was a thoughtful movie. (And Douglas DID vote for the hit man, and DOES pay the penal price at the end.)

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PS. Back to Outland

I do rather like Peter Boyle as the main bad guy on the planet in Outland. Eventually, he tells Connery: "You're dead!" (Which is the blunt version of this in North by Northwest:)

Cary Grant: Apparently the only role I can play that will convince you is when I play dead.
James Mason: Your very next performance. You'll be quite convincing, I assure you.

Eventually, after Connery has killed all the hitmen, he enters a bar where Boyle now stands nervous and defeated.

But -- rather in the tradition of Old Fashioned Western Virtue -- Connery does NOT kill Boyle. Rather we get:

Connery: (Resigned) Aw, shit..

..and he punches Boyle out cold.

Me, I figure either Boyle's going to prison or his corporate masters are going to have him killed.

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A little more on Peter Hyams.

Though I think he is a level below Don Siegel, both men share to my mind, this:while most all of their films were rather "B's with big stars", each man only REALLY delivered a good-to-great film occasionally. Very inconsistent.

For instance, in the 70's, Don Siegel gave us these three great ones : Dirty Harry(Eastwood becomes a superstar); Charley Varrick(Matthau surprises as a crook); The Shootist (John Wayne's final and fitting film.)

But AROUND those films, Siegel turned in some really blah(not dull, just blah) "nothingburgers": The Black Windmill(with Michael Caine), Telefon(with Charles Bronson) and even a Clint (Two Mules For Sister Sara.)

Peter Hyams "did it for me" with these films only: Goodnight My Love(TV movie), Capricorn One, The Star Chamber, Running Scared(a Billy Crystal cop buddy movie), and Sudden Death(a really good Die Hard clone with Van Damme.) Outland, well, somewhat. But Hyams other films did nothing for me(hey, Peeper with Michael Caine, is CAINE the problem?)

And even those "good ones" I name above are all rather crippled by Hyams' own too glib scripts.

And this(sadly): Capricorn One exited the hell out of me when I saw it with a full-house cheering crowd at its "World Premiere" in LA in 1978. I watched it again recently and saw a lot of surface silliness(I'm actually quite lenient on plot holes, it was the TONE of the movie that was off.) But I was younger then, and the audience was "seeded with shills" who pushed my buddies and me into really cheering the climax on.

Hyams himself said he was there that night and got a lot of back slaps and congrats after the screening, given the crowd response -- studio guys thought they had another Spielberg. Nope. But that NIGHT - -they did. And I was there.

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I think this means more on a Hitchcock page than on its own page(though I will put it there as well.)

What was impressive about Capricorn One in 1978 was that writer-director Peter Hyams clearly wanted to return to "the non-violent thriller" of the 50s and 60's. North by Northwest was his model -- there was even a crop duster in the finale.

I saluted Hyams for his bravery. Thrillers had gotten more and more violent in the 70's -- Dirty Harry, Straw Dogs, Frenzy, The Exorcist, Marathon Man(the dental scene!), Carrie, and parts of Jaws(Quint's death.) In Capricorn One, there are no brutal murders(people just "disappear" like that Nazi in Notorious) and Hyams relies on plot to keep the story interesting and chases for thrills.

Indeed, the movie steals a set-piece from ANOTHER "non-violent thriller" of two years before -- Hitchcock's Family Plot. In this one, its Elliott Gould(alone) whose car is rigged so the brakes don't work and the accelerator is locked down. Bruce Dern and Barbara Harris did the honors for Hitch. The process work is barely there in Capricorn One -- but I like Family Plot's version better.

Speaking of Family Plot, Capricorn One has one of its stars -- Karen Black in a two-scene cameo that was, sadly, just about near the end of her brief star career. One bit player is here from Family Plot, too -- Alan Fudge(the helicopter pilot in the Hitchcock fillm.) So Capricorn One nicely "echoes" a non-violent thriller from two years before...and echoes Hitchcock in general.

Capricorn One rather famously takes the question -- "Was the moon landing faked in a studio?" and applies it to a fictitious Mars landing. Which IS faked, in this movie.

The very Hitchcockian structure of the film has the three astronauts breaking out of their studio and splitting up three ways across a vast desert to try to escape and get the word out.

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As the three astronauts try to find civilization, an intrepid reporter (Elliott Gould) tries to find THEM. The moment when Gould (in a crop duster piloted by Telly Savalas!) finds the surviving astronaut, who must run to jump aboard the plane's wing to escape pursuing helicopters -- had the audience on their feet, cheering ("Go! Go! GO!" to the running astronaut.)

As did the finale of the film -- the "supposedly dead" astronaut and Gould arriving at the astronaut's funeral to expose everything. (Trivia buffs note that Gould is accompanying astronaut James Brolin -- so that's two Mr. Barbra Streisands on the screen.)

A fun movie, Capricorn One. Evidently a hit. And deservedly so, even if it was a bit too surface for its own good.

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Hyams himself said he was there that night and got a lot of back slaps and congrats after the screening, given the crowd response -- studio guys thought they had another Spielberg. Nope. But that NIGHT - -they did.
Those creators-in-attendance/world premiere experiences - the way every big screening at Cannes is! - are so enticing but *so* unreliable. Everyone there is in such an excited state that nobody should trust their own reactions! I've only had one experience of this sort, in Lawrence, Kansas of all places. Director Neil LaBute and his ultra-charming star Paul Rudd both had University of Kansas Drama as an alma mater and organized for the world premiere of their "The Shape of Things'' to be a benefit for their alma mater in Lawrence. Rudd and Labute introduced the film and Q&A-ed afterwards (2nd lead Rachel Weisz was supposed to be there too but couldn't make it at the last minute).

I found the whole experience overwhelming. Rudd in particular had us eating out his hand. TSOT struck me then as a new Carnal Knowledge and Neil LaBute as the second coming of Nichols and Jules Feiffer. When I rewatched TSOT a few years later, however, it felt strained and clunky and obvious. Memo to self: Be careful with Premieres!

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Hyams' 2010 (1984) just received a very lusty defense on youtube from The Critical Drinker (a film reviewer with a fun, Scottish, alcoholic persona):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jutrJZs3mU
Most commenters seem to agree with him. Could a Hyams-aisance be afoot?

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Those creators-in-attendance/world premiere experiences - the way every big screening at Cannes is! -

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Yes, it seems movies like "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" are guaranteed ten minute standing Os -- after all, QT and Brad and Leo and Margot are there, GOTTA salute them.

That one actually proved its merit in the marketplace afterwords. Other movies...not so much.

Though I do recall that Hitchcock got one of those standing Os at Cannes for Frenzy(out of competition.) I'm sure it was gratifying after so many years in the wilderness.

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are so enticing but *so* unreliable. Everyone there is in such an excited state that nobody should trust their own reactions!

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Well, that actually "night of" (and it HAS to be the screening that Hyams was at), I didn't know about "shills," -- I went with the flow of all the laughing and applauding, while sometimes thinking to myself: "How come DAVID DOYLE is getting all this love?" It was suspicious, I tell you.

On the other hand, the build-up to the final helicopter/crop duster chase IS perfect and exciting and reminiscent of some of the great Hitchcock frissons. I do not recall yelling "Go! Go! GO!" at the running astronaut, but I remember my male friend doing that.

I recall now , this: that night, Capricorn One was a sneak preview attached to a movie I'd already seen, but I watched it again. DePalma's too-big-for-its britches The Fury. Both The Fury and Capricorn One had GREAT opening thriller overtures(John Williams for The Fury; Jerry Goldsmith for Capricorn One)..both movies got LAUNCHED real good.

But in the end , as a double bill, The Fury looked like a real incoherent mess next to the fanciful Capricorn One. I remember THAT.

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I've only had one experience of this sort, in Lawrence, Kansas of all places.

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Far from New Zealand..

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Director Neil LaBute and his ultra-charming star Paul Rudd both had University of Kansas Drama as an alma mater and organized for the world premiere of their "The Shape of Things'' to be a benefit for their alma mater in Lawrence. Rudd and Labute introduced the film and Q&A-ed afterwards (2nd lead Rachel Weisz was supposed to be there too but couldn't make it at the last minute).

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I would have liked to see Rachel Weisz. I here get to be an older, mellow version of those young lads here who extol the beauteous actresses. I'm sure I would have liked what she said, too.

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I found the whole experience overwhelming. Rudd in particular had us eating out his hand. TSOT struck me then as a new Carnal Knowledge and Neil LaBute as the second coming of Nichols and Jules Feiffer. When I rewatched TSOT a few years later, however, it felt strained and clunky and obvious. Memo to self: Be careful with Premieres!

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Great points. I often caution folks here that to watch a 1972 or 1983 movie FOR THE FIRST TIME "today" is to miss a lot of the experience that I got when I saw it. Its not the same decade, you're not the same age as I was when I saw it (younger, more excitable, more impressionable)

At the same time, I can embarrass MYSELF when I see a movie years later and it falls short (as Capricorn One does today.)

Oh, well. You had to be there -- you really did. You may get some of the value now(like watching Psycho for the first time) but you won't get..what it was THEN.

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Hyams' 2010 (1984) just received a very lusty defense on youtube from The Critical Drinker (a film reviewer with a fun, Scottish, alcoholic persona):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jutrJZs3mU
Most commenters seem to agree with him.

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I'll take a look.

Hyams fan that I once was, I recall not responding too well to 2010. Two reasons: it couldn't really match the Kubrick at all(kinda like Psycho II, hah.) And: Hyams' pulpy thriller vehicles were at odds with the deep-think requirements of this film , from Arthur C. Clarke's book again, right? Like DePalma with Bonfire of the Vanities, Hyams was out of his depth.

Or so I thought. It could always use a rewatch.

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Could a Hyams-aisance be afoot?

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I skimmed the net and found articles that praised him as underrated and one that named him as among "the worst directors of all time" (some of his later work was pretty bad, and he pretty much finished as Van Damme's vanity director.)

All I know is I liked -- very much -- these:

Goodnight My Love (the TV movie that felt like a REAL movie)
Capricorn One
The Star Chamber(great criminal justice food for thought)
Outland(sorry, but..Connery was good, fun enough)
Running Scared (cop buddy comedy -- WORKS)
Sudden Death("Die Hard at the Hockey Game" -- WORKS.)

...and that's about it, from memory. Not an Oscar baiter in the bunch.

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I would have liked to see Rachel Weisz. I here get to be an older, mellow version of those young lads here who extol the beauteous actresses. I'm sure I would have liked what she said, too.
Weisz is very educated and intelligent, a definite 'thinking man's hottie' a la Diana Rigg or Helen Mirren. For this reason I was *very* impressed when Daniel Craig snapped her up soon after he marriage to Aronofsky fell apart. Well played Mr Bond. (With Craig's 100s of $millions from Bond they can now fund their own theater company or self-finance any modest movies they want... La dolce vita indeed.)

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Weisz is very educated and intelligent, a definite 'thinking man's hottie' a la Diana Rigg or Helen Mirren.

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They are in a class by themselves, these women. Movie stars can be interesting. Some get it done with their voices, and aren't much for looks (Bogart, Tracy...Matthau, Hackman). Some are looks only. Some get it done with looks AND personality(Redford, Beatty...Pitt.)

This is a bit less prevalent with female stars. Most female stars seem to HAVE to have looks, at least to start. Then the breakdown becomes the brains behind the beauty. And THOSE actresses are very, very, special.

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For this reason I was *very* impressed when Daniel Craig snapped her up soon after he marriage to Aronofsky fell apart. Well played Mr Bond. (With Craig's 100s of $millions from Bond they can now fund their own theater company or self-finance any modest movies they want... La dolce vita indeed.)

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Inter-star marriages can be interesting. I'd say that Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward were the gold standard in their day. The "Quiet Place" couple are doing well right now, and Craig-Weisz seem to be fine. Craig's got ANOTHER possible franchise right now: they are making "Knives Out 2" -- long delayed by COVID. (As for Weisz, that director she was married to also had a relationship with J-Law. THIS is another reason certain men turn to directing as a career.)

Of course not all star marriages work out. Burt Reynolds/Loni Anderson ended very badly. Bruce Willis Demi Moore ended and they went in bizarre directions(though they are still good friends.) And Johnny Depp and Amber Heard is perhaps the Biggest Bomb of Them All.

Back in Hitchcock's day, Janet Leigh came to the set of Psycho as the wife of Tony Curtis and they presented together at the 1961 Oscars for 1960 movies. Alas, that marriage didn't last, either.

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