MovieChat Forums > Elmer Gantry (1960) Discussion > Very relevant for America today

Very relevant for America today



Excellent Film. I think it is even more relevant for todays audience than those of the 60's. Shows that a lot of the religous right are nothing but a bunch of smooth talking snake oil salesmen. And unfortunatley you have one in the position of Commander in Chief. Shows that Church and State MUST be kept seperate, a problem not only for America but a HUGE problem in the Islamic countries where a film with this subject matter but from a Muslim clerics POV couldnt be made, not today and probably not in another 50 yrs.

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I agree. This film is timeless. Whether it's Christianity or another faith in the spotlight, the message is powerful and rings true.

@~ Renee @~

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Make that three. It's amazing that this novel was written in the 1920s and is as relevant today as it was 80 years ago or 45 years ago, when the film was made. Religious hucksterism, like the poor, will always be with us, but I felt most for the genuine believers who only had their faith shaken time and again.

The more things change... indeed.

Don't you snap your finger at ME, lady.

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[deleted]

Okay, guess what? The CATHOLIC church and the ANGLICAN church are the ones with all the wierd stuff about church and state. And don't paint everyone with the same brush. 'Cause no one is so backwards and out for them selves as in this movie, like, a lot of Christians are really serious about it and do believe what they say they believe. Man, its at least better than believing in nothing 'cause that is stupid! If you believe in nothing than why are you even here? Why do you have a consciense? Maybe it sounds like I'm preaching, and I don't mean it that way I just think it would be nice to have some controversy on these boards now and then.

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[deleted]

NOT believing in Christianity does NOT automatically mean a person believes in NOTHING (and only a fundy could even think that way, anyway). Many of those who don't BELIEVE in your precious religion, ACCEPT the beauty and wonder and discovery afforded by science (which allows for DISAGREEMENT and CORRECTION and FALSIFIABILITY), which time and again over several hundred years now, keeps forcing the religious (and Christians in particular) further into their idealogical corner to "reformat" what they believe in so that they can, in their own minds, keep it flourishing among like-minded people. The only thing that one could argue ELMER GANTRY (the film) wavers on is the title character's own BELIEF in the B.S. he shovels. THAT is the problem with religious fundamentalists the world over today, particularly the evangelists: many may start out with Gantry-like awareness that there's a willing audience - often with deep pockets - for this pabulum, but eventually they've cross that psychological divide and actually start BELIEVING it themselves, which of course only makes the sale that much more convincing to the great unwashed. And nice try associating ONLY the Catholics and the Anglicans with wanting to merge church and state. The U.S. recently, even as recently as you posted) underwent a wonderfully watchable trial in which, at long last and with amazing ease, the School Board of Dover, Penn. was told it could NOT teach Intelligent Design (PROVEN in several ways to be reheated creationism) to its students as an alternative to evolutionary theories (which, of course, are rooted in testable EVIDENCE and FACTS). The proponents behind the ID movement are MOSTLY fundamentalist agendists from the Prostestant cults - full-blown Elmer Gantries who honestly believe what they've been sold in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - "if I FEEL it's true, IT'S TRUE!. PRAISE JAY-SUSS!" It would all be laughable if it weren't for the fact that all of this magical religious hoodoo has stunted the educational maturity of far too many Americans up to now, making them pale in comparison to their European, Asian and Canadian counterparts when it comes to the sciences. Many people who CHOOSE not to be Christians, or don't have it forced down their throats from the moment they're spiritied out of the maternity ward so no evil influences can befall their precious little play-doh minds, still suspect the existence of a god - but often he's simply the force behind the Big Bang, after which he left things alone to EVOLVE. The fact that he isn't identical to yours doesn't make their thoughts any less worthy. Others may indeed choose NOT TO ACCEPT the existence of God, but this in no way means they DENY THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. The two concepts are exclusive, but Christians and other religionists can't wrap their minds around the separation, just as they can't when it comes to religion and politics.

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". . . no one is so backwards and out for them selves [sic] as in this movie" -- oh, really? Perhaps someday you'll wke up and compare, as example, Bush's words with his actions. One of the Christian Commandments -- not equest, Commandment -- is "Thou shalt not lie". Care to try to defend the fact that every time Bush opens his mouth a lie falls out, only to be followedd by another, and another, and another?

Though the novel, and the film, are "fiction," the reality is that it is based upon fact, upon reality: "religion" has been used since its advent for all sorts of ends, including the suckering of "true believers" into doing any number of despicable things -- contrary to their "religion" and conscience -- in the name of their "religion". Can you say "Crusades"? Can you say torture in the rhetoic of "liberation"?

In the name of "religion," Bush illegally invaded and occupied a non-threatening sovereign nation. And with the same emotionalism which substitutes for "faith" and "religion," the true believers swallowed it unquestioningly, went along with it, and in many cases still support it.

Certainly there are Christians who actually live according to the values they espouse; but that does not mean they all do -- see above re. Bush.

As for "believing in nothing": that isn't possible. That it is possible is one of the lies -- or illiteracies -- sold by the extreme right wing religioliars --that they have "values" while everyone else does not. In fact, everyone has "values" -- it isn't possible not to have them -- regardless whether one likes them.

Go back and view the film again -- but this time with an open mind, instead of one which rejects it out of hand even before watching it. There have always been, and are today, religious hucksters who will pick your pocket while telling you to "repent," exactly as the film depicts. Look at such as Bennett, Falwell, and Robertson (recall the latter calling for the assassination of a democratically elected head of state? what happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?)

That's why it rings true for many: because, for them, they haven't their eyes closed, and aren't defensive against seeing through liars who tell you what you hope is true and want to hear.

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This film obviously brings up a lot of debate, and yes I agree that it should be watched with an open mind, but that goes for all sides of the arguement. Those who are "stuck on God" as I like to say, should watch this movie and maybe learn a lesson or two about the whole "judge not lest ye be judged" thing. But those who espouse the values of science and fact should also take from it a few lessns. The FACT is that evolution and the science that goes with is just a THEORY. Its right there in the title, the THEORY of evolution. It's backed up by some solid proof, whilst religion is completely lacking in that respect, but time and time again throughout history the most prominent and prolific scientists have been proven wrong. We must be careful not to turn science, which is a fascinating and noble pursuit, into a kind of religion of its own, and be ready to accept at any moment to throw what we know completely out the window.

We must also recognize that religion itself is a PART of science. We have relied on it for centuries to keep us together, to keep us working and to keep us in line. Heck, in the really ancient times it WAS science. Inherent in science is the need to explain the world around us, and at first it was religion that fulfilled this need. Think of it as a cosmic sized blanket that comforted us when we were children. Now that we've grown up, we have learned internal more logical ways to comfort ourselves. We must, remember, however, the difficulty we had giving up that "blankey" in our formative years, and have sympathy for those who are having a harder time doing the same. A little understanding goes a long way, in both directions.

While I have been terribly reasonable in my first two paragraphs I must take offence at the comment that not believing God means you don't believe in anything. Because your right that would be stupid. I myself do not believe in God. The reason is simple, religious people have no arguement against the statement that I am God. Since I know I'm not, then there is no God.
What I do believe in is the human race. I know it sounds corny but its true. Think about all those religious experiences you hear about, or see in movies like Elmer Gantry. They hardly ever happen when someone is sitting alone in their living rooms. No, they happen in an energized crowd of people, that seems to be giving off its own kind of power. And I think that's just what it is, something about us, boys and girls, makes us feel great when we gather and work together. If that's not a fantastic reason to get along I don't know what is. Who needs God's love when we have each others?!? And far from making the world a less remarkable place, the lack of some great deity bringing everything into existence makes everything so much more fantastic. Some all powerful god could quite easily pop us all into life, but years of evolution and chance and just dumb luck makes me cherish life all the more. If I thought there was some heavenly world waiting for me, I'd probably off myself right now, but knowing that this life is all I got makes me want to live it to the fullest, and let everyone else in the world do the same.

My Science:) that was a long speech huh? I'll stop now as I'm getting rhetoric elbow
Feel free to argue as much as you like, its just my opinion after all, not a fact or nothin'

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WOW - what a cognizant reply! I applaud your obvious street smarts and homespun eloquence. Oh if only level-headed thinking based on one's own experience would catch on!

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I myself do not believe in God. The reason is simple, religious people have no arguement [sic] against the statement that I am God. Since I know I'm not, then there is no God.


I am not a religious person, but I do have an argument with you if you say you are God, LOL. And I fail to see your logic in dismissing the existence of God altogether solely because you realize you are not God.

What I do believe in is the human race. I know it sounds corny but its true.


I would hope Elmer Gantry, among other things, shows that we cannot put our faith in the human race. I've known far too many humans who would sell their closest loved ones down the river for very temporal things.

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PROVE your assertions about the Catholic and Anglican churches, please.

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I agree.. We now have a flim-flam man as commander in chief who is good at spouting liberal platitudes. He even uses the teleprompter extensively to be sure his performances are tightly controlled.

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Precisely how many of the current "religious right" are equivalent to Elmer Gantry? And how does this film "show...that a lot of the religious right are nothing but a bunch of...," etc? Which ones? Who, precisely?

Do explain, also, how G.W. Bush (who has said "[Islam's] teachings are good and peaceful [imagine Gantry saying that]" is one of those smooth-talking snake oil salesmen? Examples from what he has said, please.

If "church and state MUST be kept separate," well, "Elmer Gantry" was made in this country nearly 50 years ago, and has been shown here regularly ever since. You admit that "a film with this subject matter but from a [presumably fundamentalist] Muslim cleric's POV couldn't be made, not today and probably not in another 50 years."

Does that not explain a considerable difference between conservative Christians and Islamofacists?

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This film was eons ahead of its time for exposing the hypocrisy of the religious elite. I'm amazed that such a cynical film could be made in 1960 with such a large cast. I'm sure they were greeted with charges of blasphemy.

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Who, me? At what point did I express interest in "Canaan Land"?

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