Why the capital U?
In the title?
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"You beat death, Arvin, but you couldn't beat me."
[deleted]
There's another thread on exactly the same topic which must be recent enough that imdb hasn't deleted it.
It's a telephone exchange: as in BU8-1234 (or, in the more modern version, 289-1234). That was a common way to write them - if you look in an old copy of the yellow pages, you'll see lots of ads with the phone number written like:
BUtterfield 8 - 1234
GLencourt 4 - 1234
PEnnsylvania 6 - 5000.
The recent thread is, indeed (at the moment), a mere four slots beneath this one. The subject is "Question" which, admittedly, is a bit all-purpose.
shareBUtterfield 8 - 1234
GLencourt 4 - 1234
PEnnsylvania 6 - 5000.
Or my parents' number when I was a kid: CIrcle 5 - 6795.
It was quite a help in those days, with the phone exchange word in front of the number. You could actually tell what part of the city the business or residence was located, by looking at a list of the exchanges in the directory. The exchange names were assigned by area.
shareMost localities used four- or five-digit phone numbers until after WWII, which gave up to 100,000 possible phone numbers for a local area. Even to this day, in my town many older residents will write their phone number as "2-9999," with the first two (unwritten) digits understood. Larger cities with more than 100,000 telephones got beyond this five-digit limit by giving stylish, happy names to a two digit prefix, based on the matching of letters to numbers on the telephone dial. Thus, in Minneapolis, "Juniper 8" (588) was an exchange in Robbinsdale, while "Sterling 9" (789) was in northeast Minneapolis. The phone numbers were written "JU8-5444" and if the full prefix was spelled out, the convention was to capitalize the first two letters, as "JUniper 8-5444." A Ray Bradbury short story used this to good effect by having the lead character dialing numbers like "LIberty 4-1776" to speak to one of the Founding Fathers of the USA, for example.
But the phone company (there was only one in those days, AT&T) next had to go to area codes, and as cities got bigger with more area codes and long distance calling got more common, the "JUniper" convention got more and more uncomfortable, sandwiched between an area code and the rest of the phone number. Shortly after the introduction of "ZIP codes" (which stands for Zone Improvement Plan, by the way) AT&T went to 7-digit phone numbers and dropped the prefix names nationwide.
Great information, and a very lucid explanation.
Thank you so much!
-Jim McGee
I am 46 and remember in the late 60's here in Los Angeles and even into the early 70's some TV commercials still used excahnges for phone numbers. I lived in Pasadena and one exchange was RIchmond 9-7945 for example which was 749 etc...
shareSpeaking of the dropping of exchange names and going to "All Digit Dialing", the late Allan Sherman wrote a song about that called "The Let's All Call Up AT&T and Protest to the President March". You can find the lyrics at http://dmdb.org/lyrics/sherman.celebrity.html.
shareWhen telephone numbers were originally assigned, there were no dials. You picked up the receiver to make a call and, instead of a dial tone, you got a live female voice asking "Number please?". "Murray Hill 1111", or "Butterfield 9999", or "Pennsylvania 5000", or whatever, you told her. She said "9999?" You said yes and there was Gloria at the other end. In 1930, the phone company added the additional number, so now Gloria was at Butterfield8-9999. Eventually, dials were introduced to some exchanges. You just dialed BU8-9999, which is why the B and U were highlighted by being capitalized when the exchange name was written. But the exchange name was still spelled out in full because many people did not have dial phones and still told the operator they wanted BUtterfield8-9999. Fast forward another 30 years, all phones are dial phones and BU8-9999 became 288-9999. It doesn't have the same character. I can't imagine Glen Miller's band singing "736-5000."
shareBefore I even went to the message board, I was torn by two possibilities for the meaning of "BUtterfield 8." My earliest memories were of 5-digit phone numbers, which were direct-dialed on a rotary phone, so at first I thought "BUtterfield 8" had something to do with a phone number, but when I rewound to the first instance "BUtterfield 8" was mentioned, Gloria dialed seven digits, said "Butterfield 8," then asked for her messages. So the other possibility came to mind, that she worked for an escort service, or at the very least, used an answering service. She directed her mother to turn it off and forward her the bill to Boston once she was settled.
Wouldn't BU-8 have much more meaning to Wes engraved on a lighter if it signified something other than a common phone number exchange?
BUtterfield8 was, and 288 is, a telephone exchange on the east side of Manhattan.
share"Insulted by the money which she never takes from men, Gloria, whose dress is torn, takes Liggett's wife Emily's mink coat to cover herself and scrawls "No Sale" in lipstick on the mirror, but then orders her telephone exchange, Butterfield 8, to put Liggett through if he should call."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BUtterfield_8
My earliest experiences in using the family phone were about 15 years after this movie. Okay, Butterfield 8 is NOT an escort service, which I had figured out for myself as not likely. But why would she call her own exchange and get information on the 3 men who had called? Was that part of the job of being a telephone operator? How could she direct anyone to "put Liggett through"?
Oh wait, if she dialed 7 digits, did she call her own phone at her mother's and her mother or her friend relayed the messages?
Indeed, "Pennsylvania 6-5000" has a much better ring to it, so to speak.
But one question regarding "BUtterfield-8": Shouldn't this film be called "BUtterfield-8-5000" or something? When she calls up her answering service and says, "This is BUtterfield-8," how would they know it was her without the last four digits?
I suspect the filmmakers didn't want people calling BUtterfield-8-5000 in various area codes and asking for "services."
And why wouldn't it just be "BUtter-8," or even "BUt-8"? Why the long word, when only the first two letters matter? I guess "BUtterfield" is more elegant than "BUt."
Why Butterfield? I don't know the origin of Butterfield, but most telephone exchanges referred to the area they served. Pennsylvania served the area around Pennsylvania Station; Murray Hill is a neighborhood in the east 30s; Rector is a street downtown; etc. It may also have been the case that, when you had to tell the operator the number you wanted her to get for you, a long, distinctive name was easier for her to hear.
Why Butterfield 8? Apparently, the author of the novel was impressed with the phone company's adding a number after the name of the exchange in 1930. At the beginning of the book he reprints the NY Tel announcement that you will from now on need to use the extra number. I don't have the book in front of me, but somewhere in this thread, I think I quoted the exact announcement.
Thanks for the details! I didn't realize the exchanges tried to fit the areas they serve. That would certainly make them easier to remember, but wouldn't it be difficult to make the number fit the word just for the sake of a clever prefix? My parents still used the prefix word long after we had numbers (I don't remember it now), but I don't think it had anything to do with our city.
So did the book address those other four digits in Gloria's phone number? When she uses just "BUtterfield 8" to call her answering service, how would they know what number it was with just the prefix? Obviously, they didn't want to use a real phone number in this movie.
Thinking up clever prefixes was not the point. Think in terms of small towns 100 years ago. If you wanted to call cousin Fred 20 miles away in Podunk, you asked the operator for long distance. The long distance operator came on the line and asked "What city?" You said "Podunk". She connected you to the Podunk operator and you told her "number 21". Fast forward 30 years and now you ask the operator for Podunk 21. If you have a dial phone you dial PO 21. Maybe, Podunk is so big now they have to add a second office and they pick a name out of a hat, like Butterfield, to refer to that one. By the 1960s, everybody had a 7 digit number and cousin Fred might be PO6-5555. That soon became 766-5555. Nowadays, when they create new exchanges, they just string three numbers together without any reference to a name, but there are still plenty of the old names hiding in some exchange numbers.
In the novel, there is no scene with Gloria getting messages from her answering service.
That would certainly make them easier to remember, but wouldn't it be difficult to make the number fit the word just for the sake of a clever prefix?
So did the book address those other four digits in Gloria's phone number?
Thanks for the elaboration, PillowRock. When I initially wrote that post, I was under the impression that the prefix "word" (like "BUtterfield") had some connection to the locality rather than just being a somewhat random word whose first two letters corresponded to numbers on the phone's keypad. Almost all numbers on the keypad contain vowels, so that makes coining words even easier.
As for the second point, about the last four digits in Gloria's phone number, are you saying that in the '30s, phone numbers had only three digits because of a lack of users? So BUtterfield-8 might be a complete telephone number (288), after the area code of course?
I was under the impression that the prefix "word" (like "BUtterfield") had some connection to the locality rather than just being a somewhat random word whose first two letters corresponded to numbers on the phone's keypad.
As for the second point, about the last four digits in Gloria's phone number, are you saying that in the '30s, phone numbers had only three digits because of a lack of users? So BUtterfield-8 might be a complete telephone number (288), after the area code of course?
Hello, Paulcoxwell:
Thanks very much for your interesting and informative briefing on the telephone numbering system. Obviously telecommunications was initially a patchwork system that served local communities but that later grew by leaps and bounds to accommodate more users – and is growing even faster and in more directions in this digital age.
I'm old enough (barely) to remember party lines. Sometimes as late as the early '70s I'd pick up the phone to make a call and hear two parties already conversing. I'd have to hang up the phone and check back later for a dial tone. I remember our phone ringing once, answering it, and another party answering at the same time. The caller told me to hang up, that he didn't want to talk to me. I thought that was rather rude, but I guess this was typical considering the limits of the party-line system, which presumably allowed many users on a system that was already becoming maxed out.
Obviously telecommunications was initially a patchwork system that served local communities but that later grew by leaps and bounds to accommodate more users
I'm old enough (barely) to remember party lines. Sometimes as late as the early '70s I'd pick up the phone to make a call and hear two parties already conversing. I'd have to hang up the phone and check back later for a dial tone.
Thanks very much for the information and the links, PaulCoxwell! Interesting stuff. I imagine folks at the time thought the phone system was as high-tech as it would ever get, but of course it keeps getting more and more sophisticated (and sometimes complicated).
shareYes, there are certainly significant changes which come along every so often and sometimes take people by surprise at the speed with which they're adopted, although on the other hand some ideas have never really taken off as expected. Back in the mid 1960's when videophones were being hailed as the next "big thing," it seems that some commentators thought they'd be pretty common by the mid 1980's. Another 25 years on from there and they're still just not something most people want.
Back on the exchange name issue, there were names which were considered more or less desirable to some people, based upon their (sometimes imagined) social status and the association of the name with a particular neighborhood. Exchange boundaries are chosen for technical reasons, and seldom coincide with actual borough or district boundaries in a large city, and the overlap sometimes caused people living in a certain area to raise objections at being associated with what they regarded as a much more downmarket name.
For example, some people living on a particular fringe of the FULham exchange area in London objected to having numbers which implied an association with Fulham itself, a decidely less desirable district at the time. The result was that the G.P.O. came up with an alternate name of DUKe for some subscribers served out of FULham. Of course, FUL and DUK are both exactly the same code.
A similar situation existed in LEYtonstone, another decidely downmarket neighborhood, and for a few years some numbers were instead published as KEYstone, although the identical digits must have been even more obvious on that one!
In one case in the 1930's, a proposed new exchange name was changed for all users even before it went into service: It had been intended to call it BEThnal Green, another less-than-desirable neighborhood in the East End of London, but pressure resulted in the adoption of an alternate name which matched the same digits. So subscribers ended up with the totally meaningless (but presumably more "socially acceptable") name of ADVance.
Interestingly enough it's not only the Glenn Miller song of that name that used the name of a phone exhange. Other examples are the song "Beechwood 4-5789" by the Marvelettes as well as the name of the late 1950s-early 1960s vocal group the Fleetwoods (it was the name of the phone exchange of Olympia, WA where the group came from).
shareI love that song. So we have "BEechwood 4-5789" and "PEnnsylvania 6-5000." Are there any other song titles that use the name of the phone exchange?
shareAre there any other song titles that use the name of the phone exchange?
Thanks very much! I see that the Hankshaw Hawkins song was his biggest hit, but it debuted just three days before he was killed in a plane crash (with Patsy Cline), so he would never know. And for as many times as I've heard "Promised Land," I always thought that was an address, though obviously he's making a phone call. Thanks again.
shareAnother one I have in my collection came to mind after posting those lyrics last week: "Bigelow 6-200" by Brenda Lee. It was one of her very early recordings (she's actually credited as "Little Brenda Lee" on the record label).
I did a little searching and found the recording online. Click on the play button over to the right of this page:
http://www.last.fm/music/Brenda+Lee/_/Bigelow+6-200
Thanks for that, and what a rockin' tune! The voice thoughout her career is unmistakably Brenda Lee.
Here's another one: "Echo Valley 2-6809" by the Partridge Family, a song apparently written long after those prefixes became obsolete.
Thanks for that, and what a rockin' tune!
Here's another one: "Echo Valley 2-6809" by the Partridge Family, a song apparently written long after those prefixes became obsolete.
I didn't realize U.S. cities were still using the "name" prefixes in the early '70s. I know my parents continued to refer to our phone number as a "name" and then five digits well into the '70s and even '80s, but that's because we had the same number pretty much since they married, which was in 1957.
A lot of older people continued to use the name with the phone numbers long after the phone company had gone to a strictly numeric system simply because it was easier to remember names than numbers – at least for most people.
Of course, today you still have businesses like 1-800-DENTIST that have "vanity" phone numbers to make it easier to remember. Government agencies do this a lot too. I think this causes confusion when people dial "zero" instead of the letter O (which would be 6).
I used to know someone named Dean who gave me his number as (prefix)-DEAN, which made it easier to remember, as long as I recalled his prefix (which I don't now). I guess most phone numbers could also form a word or several words. I wonder if there's a Web site or algorithm (for people who understand that stuff – I most certainly don't) that would provide "word" options if you plug in a phone number?
I didn't realize U.S. cities were still using the "name" prefixes in the early '70s.
A lot of older people continued to use the name with the phone numbers long after the phone company had gone to a strictly numeric system simply because it was easier to remember names than numbers – at least for most people.
Most localities used four- or five-digit phone numbers until after WWII, which gave up to 100,000 possible phone numbers for a local area.
Larger cities with more than 100,000 telephones got beyond this five-digit limit by giving stylish, happy names to a two digit prefix, based on the matching of letters to numbers on the telephone dial. Thus, in Minneapolis, "Juniper 8" (588) was an exchange in Robbinsdale, while "Sterling 9" (789) was in northeast Minneapolis. The phone numbers were written "JU8-5444" and if the full prefix was spelled out, the convention was to capitalize the first two letters, as "JUniper 8-5444."
next had to go to area codes, and as cities got bigger with more area codes and long distance calling got more common, the "JUniper" convention got more and more uncomfortable, sandwiched between an area code and the rest of the phone number.
But the phone company (there was only one in those days, AT&T)
several U.S. cities, including New York, initially adopted a 3L-4N format. Hence there was BUTterfield 1234 etc. The few American cities using 3L-4N changed to 2L-5N in later years
It may be worth explicitly noting that BUTerfield-1234 and BUtterfield 8-1234 are the same number.
Ours were
PRescott=77
PLaza=75
SWift=79
MOhawk=66
As a young child, I knew my phone number as WIndsor 6-9057. I still think of it as that today.
shareAs a young child, I knew my phone number as WIndsor 6-9057.