MovieChat Forums > Les quatre cents coups (1959) Discussion > Not sure why people like it so much...

Not sure why people like it so much...


This film had a lot going for it: great acting, superb direction, stunning cinematography.... yet I just was never into it. There just seemed to be nothing redemptive on a philosophical or metaphorical scale (in that I had trouble extending any message beyond that of an adolescent kid. The film can definitely be read in an existentialist manner, but this is pretty topical application of existentialism, and there are many other films that deal with existentialism on a more intimate and deep level), the story wasn't particularly poignant, in that I didn't ever feel much emotion for Antoine one way or the other (nor do I really think this was Truffaut's goal), and above all I wasn't really interested in what was happening to him. It all just seemed very mundane and typical --- which would be fine if this was somehow the intended message of the movie, i.e., if the viewer is supposed to think, "Life is pointless, boring, and unfair. It's just a series of unintended actions and consequences," but again, this brings us to an existential direction, which is neither fully developed nor really effective.

For some comparisons, I found this film similar to some of Bresson's films ("Pickpocket," "Mouchette," "Balthazar," maybe even "A Man Escaped") on several levels, but I think Bresson's films are much more developed and better examples of this type of genre. On the other end, this film definitely has similarities to Godard's work (and rightfully so, as both Truffaut and Godard were pioneers of French New Wave cinema), specifically something like "À bout de souffle," which likewise I am not too keen on (though it grows on me every time I see it), but I would also say that "À bout de souffle" is a much more effective attempt at this type of film.

I'm hoping to start a good diaglogue about the pros and cons of this film, so I'd be very interested in why some people feel so strongly about it, and what they consider it's redeeming qualities.

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[deleted]

I agree with you in the sense that it isnt one of the greatest films of all time and has plenty of flaws. But I found it very intresting you compared it the The Catcher in the Rye, one of the also works that people hate/dont understand its acclaim. Really, the reason I love this film is that it is on a personal level, the highest level of love you can ever achieve from viewing a film is one of which relates to your very own character. One of the very few films in which I cry.

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I don’t have any arguments to make, but wanted to join this discussion. I think you make some excellent observations in your original post. It is easy to see that the film has many outstanding qualities, but does it leave a greater overall impact on the viewer?

I think the greatness of many movies is very ephemeral, enough so that I wonder if the movie is highly regarded simply because it is known to be highly regarded. Another film that I felt similarly about is Killer of Sheep. It’s also a older black and white movie with realist tendencies, and its unavailability to the public only increased its reputation before finally being released on DVD.

With both movies you have a lot of 9 and 10 star IMDB reviews praising the films’ genius and humanity, while others scratch their heads wondering if they even saw the same movie (especially Killer of Sheep.) I don’t mean to prejudge any viewer or disparage anyone’s views, but I think we have gotten used to a certain approach in movies that more is better, and you can’t drive a point home hard enough. These movies are a 180 from that, though that doesn’t necessarily mean they are better films- just very different.

This movie captured me in its initial viewing, but like you also left me with reservations. A few things strike me about 400 Blows upon further review. The movie paints an achingly realistic and also touching portrait of Antoine, so realistic that I think it’s easy to overlook. There’s no traditional antagonist in the movie, though there are antagonistic forces. Antoine is at once smarter and much more sensitive than adults take him for, and at the same time his juvenile mind simply doesn’t understand the rules and consequences of the adult world (some arbitrary and unfair, some not.) I think this portrayal is truer to a child’s mind and experience than just about any film I can remember. If I really consider my own personal experience when I was young, or really observe the thoughts, behaviors, and reactions of my children, I think most all movie completely fail in really capturing children- actually, they don't even really try to. When Doinel is caught in the act (which of course happens numerous times) he doesn’t mug for the camera or overreact like your typical ‘misunderstood’ boy, he only stiffens in recognition and you can see the color of doom in his eyes. Like you, I didn’t necessarily feel for the boy like I do for other child protagonists, but that would have been the easiest thing for Truffaut to pull off. Tugging at heartstrings is not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not necessarily a great or difficult accomplishment either.

The film does sort of meander from episode to episode, even as the stakes of Antoine’s actions grows. I think that is a reflection of Antoine’s experience of these events. It might have been possible to craft a more significant climax or path of character development, but then I think we would lose the intimacy and also realism of the film. By realism I don’t mean to say that a movie must be just as seemingly random and meaningless as real life, but that there’s a realism to Antoine’s experience that unexpectedly does reach a climax for me in the last sequence leading to the final frozen frame. I think that last freeze frame may be responsible for half of the movie’s popularity, which seems rather strange except I couldn’t possibly imagine a better final sequence to the film. My reaction is that at once I saw both the possibility and limitation of Antoine’s life, both in the present and in his future. I think Truffaut mainly just wanted to make an autobiographical movie about a boy, but I think Doinel’s experience is perhaps more universal than would initially seem to be. I think if a movie is intimately personal and human enough, it will be universal even if that was not the intent. I don’t think the viewer is supposed to think that “Life is pointless, boring, and unfair” either. If I had to take a stab at it, I would say the film shows how life can be inherently problematic and difficult for humans, that human relations are difficult, and that there’s not necessarily an easy answer. But even so, I think there is still a sense of (childlike) hope in the final frame, that Antoine has not given up despite his travails, nor will he devolve into a base life of violent crime beyond the end of the movie, But that’s just what I feel.

But ultimately the film does not leave me with a message, it leaves me thinking- which I think is ultimately is a better thing in certain ways (and I’m still thinking, which is why I offer my random thoughts rather than any particular argument or message.) I think it’s easy to think that anyone could make a movie just like 400 Blows or Killer of Sheep, they were made with low budgets, hey just follow a boy around for a few weeks and there you have it. But the fact is that such films are actually exceedingly rare, and that it is far harder to accomplish one of these films than it is to spend $200 million to blow up the earth in the most gratuitous way possible. Or in other words, it’s only easy to say after the fact that it would be easy to make a movie like these two, which totally belies their individuality and originality.

I still don’t totally disagree with your points about how it feels like the film is missing a theme, but at the same time I don’t believe I can think of a single way to change the film that wouldn’t be to its detriment.

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[deleted]

I agree with you. "The 400 Blows" is overrated.

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Agreed. The 400 Blows, while not a bad film, is, in a word, overrated.

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Yeah, I liked it, for its whimsy and technical aspects (direction, cinematography, acting, etc), but the movie personally doesn't have much replay value in my collection.

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According to the imdb community, every movie that has ever received critical acclaim is overrated.

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There just seemed to be nothing redemptive on a philosophical or metaphorical scale...

Well the French New Wave weren't interested in that. Being "redemptive on a philosophical or metaphorical scale" was the old French cinema and that's what they were trying to get rid of.

The film can definitely be read in an existentialist manner, but this is pretty topical application of existentialism, and there are many other films that deal with existentialism on a more intimate and deep level.

How it can get more intimate than this film is beyond me. But then Truffaut doesn't spell out existentialism with capital letters.

the story wasn't particularly poignant, in that I didn't ever feel much emotion for Antoine one way or the other (nor do I really think this was Truffaut's goal),

It wasn't Truffaut's goal to demand that emotion from his audience but rather to show them the character and how he is and let them make their own minds. But even then I find it rather hard to believe anyone would have any difficulty in feeling for Antoine and his sad life.

It all just seemed very mundane and typical --- which would be fine if this was somehow the intended message of the movie, i.e., if the viewer is supposed to think, "Life is pointless, boring, and unfair. It's just a series of unintended actions and consequences," but again, this brings us to an existential direction, which is neither fully developed nor really effective.

Well excuse me, but that is the direction to which the film leads to and which is very powerfully developed. And by the way existentialism isn't about "life is pointless, boring and unfair" but that life is very harsh and difficult but we still can choose how to live that life and what choices and directions to take.

For some comparisons, I found this film similar to some of Bresson's films ("Pickpocket," "Mouchette," "Balthazar," maybe even "A Man Escaped") on several levels,

Truffaut admired Bresson. Especially A Man Escaped which indeed is a reference.

...but I would also say that "À bout de souffle" is a much more effective attempt at this type of film.

How a pastische of B-Movie gangsters is the same type of film as an autobiographical coming-of age drama is beyond me?




"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

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I think we just want very different things from movies, and we took away very different things form this movie. First off, I honestly felt no sympathy for Antoine in this film. I've felt sympathy for lots of other people in films before, but for whatever reason, I did not connect with Antoine at all. I could understand how he was a victim of circumstances beyond his control, or that he might have been the product of injustice, but I didn't really feel for him or care about him. I'm not saying you didn't care about him, but this film definitely fell flat (for me) in invoking any sort of emotion or sympathy. If, as you say, "It wasn't Truffaut's goal to demand that emotion from his audience but rather to show them the character and how he is and let them make their own minds," then I guess I have made up my mind: I don't care about Antoine, and thus I don't particularly care about watching a film about him.

Maybe I just can't particularly connect with coming-of-age dramas. Or maybe I just subconsciously don't care too much about coming-of-age dramas, as that's not really of interest to me now that I am well beyond the coming-of-age point. Or maybe Truffaut's coming of age drama just doesn't resonate with me.

In terms of movies that made me really feel that like is pointless and unfair, I still have to say again that I have a much stronger affinity for something like Balthazar. But different strokes for different folks. I'm sure some people can't connect to the idea of feeling sympathy for a donkey, which I can completely understand.

As an example of a film that I do really find poignant, that deals with both the coming-of-age issues and the difficulty in life and the weight of our decisions, is "Once Upon a Time in America." Agreed it's not the same film, but I think it has similar themes (at least the first 1/2).

You might be right that this is not comparable to "A bout de Souffle," but like I mentioned before, I'm still vague as to exactly what the point of this film is. Some films you watch and they resonate with you and they serve a personal meaning to you, and others don't. This was one of the latter.

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I was just happy to see a movie about younger person who wasn't precocious or creepy or stupid or bratty. Antoine was refreshing as both a protagonist and a rascal. It also reminded me of being young and ridiculous and I mean, I think anyone can honestly relate to that.

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I thought it was nothing special in my teens. Now I think it's amazing. Am I guessing right that you're young? The movie is amazing because:

- it is poignant without being sentimental
- it signalled a beautiful, more natural, and more modernw ay to tell the story of an adolescent
- nouvelle vague

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Well I guess that depends on if you consider mid-30s as young...

As I said in my post, I feel like this movie would have been even more interesting when I was younger.

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This is my favorite film.

I first saw it as an assignment for a film class I was taking and, oh man, I SO did not want to watch it!!! I had to rent it, watch it, and then write a paper on it - I waited forever too, to do it, cause I thought it was going to be boring as hell.

So I watched it and holy crap, like I said, it has become my #1 favorite movie of all time. It's weird because though I didn't have a childhood even remotely similar to Antoine, I really connected with him and his surroundings.

Anyways, that's my story,

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The little things make this film great.

The kids ditching the gym teacher on a run

Antoine looking scared after stealing the milk and hiding in the shadows.

The final 2 minutes of the film.

cinemapedant.blogspot.com

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Agreed.. I watched an interview with Truffaut on the Blu-ray release that said he basically built the whole movie around all of those "little things".

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As far as your generation is concerned, Holy *beep* God, Yes! You are young (immature), please? You have to ask? C'mon man!? Your generation is responsible for the term 30 is the new 20, right? Let me guess Quentin Tarantino is your favorite director? You like hip hop, but your open minded because you occasionally listen to Cold Play? Wow you are soooooooo deep man! You reference a few french films that you saw in film class once, and declare yourself the second coming of William F. Buckley Jr. meets Roger Ebert. Perhaps you're merely pretentious?

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Nailed it. Well done.

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Perhaps you're merely pretentious?

Ironic, considering your post is the most pretentious thing i saw this year.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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I'll tell a simple yet amazing story: a 13-year old boy I know has seen this film last week and was quite impressed by it. We were discussing the film and I said: this film is about a teenager with all kinds of trouble coming at him from outside, and the boy said: yes, just like myself! Believe me, the boy has never experienced any trouble and usually prefers Hollywood films. But 400 blows spoke to him. There is some truth about every teenager in this film. That's why it's a great film.

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I don't think Truffaut had some Big Message to get across with this movie. This movie almost seems like he consciously avoided such a thing and wanted to make you feel rather than think. It's about a kid who kept screwing up in his life and it tries to put you in his shoes to give you an idea as to why he acted the way he did, and no it wasn't solely because he had daddy issues or whatever, that was just part of it. It was basically a perfect storm of circumstance.

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agreed. Watch Robert Bressons "PickPocket", I felt the same after this labeled "masterpiece"!! Kinda sad to actually force myself to like these movies but I dont have anything against them either, all well written and directed movies.

I am too young i tell myself :P

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