When the Sister Nun asked Sister Luke to fail her test, I believe that was wrong. Sister Luke would be cheating God if she didn't do her best on the test. If she didn't answer the questions correctly, it would be like lying.
It was wrong of that sister to ask her to do it. I believe by sending Sister Luke to the Sanitarium instead of the Congo, she was punishing her for not obeying her.
You're exactly right about that. And her superior at the sanitarium told her the same thing--that the Rev. Mother at the Mother House was wrong to tell her that.
shareI agree. This plot point was a deal-breaker for me. Sister Luke had to "learn humility?" How about basic honesty? Being a Catholic is like returning to the 12th century.
"You can't HANDLE the truth!" Jack Nicholson, "A Few Good Men."
I don't know how much of what happened in the movie actually happened in real life, but I think it is beyond ridiculous to have to ask for permission to drink a glass of water between meals. Tattle telling on other nuns is not a good practice either.
There is no way in the world I could ever become a nun if I had to be constantly humiliated and have to ask permission for something as simple as drinking a sip of water when I was thirsty. It all sounds like a power trip to me. Breaking wills and teaching the nuns to let others walk all over them....literally.
I think the reason I have such strong feelings on this matter is because I used to have a boss that was a horrible woman. She would tell us how to speak and what to say. We had to ask permission to do anything and if we did the least little thing wrong, she would yell at us in front of everyone. She had her spies too.
I only lasted there 4 months. The place was ran like a kindergarten with grown people treated like 5 year olds.
The place was ran like a kindergarten with grown people treated like 5 year olds.
My wife once worked in a place where there was no talking unless it had to do with the job. She didn't stay long. Anyway you're going to tell a woman she can't talk? For that matter someone like me who's known to be a talker.
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Not talking unless it has to do with business is a good rule when you're dealing with the public. Ever been to a fast-food place or a supermarket where the help talk to each other and ignore the customer?
shareUnder certain conditions yes but in my wife's case it was an office
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You're preaching to the choir. I had a female boss that ordered grown-up adults to go stand in the corner when they screwed-up. They did, too! She had them so in fear of her that they wouldn't report her to human resources. I was a "temp," and was outside her control. I reported her to MY superiors. They did nothing! Money talks, and bullsh*t walks. Yes, the convent IS a return to the Middle Ages!!
"You can't HANDLE the truth!" Jack Nicholson, "A Few Good Men."
Yeah, I worked for county government. When the boss is the girlfriend of a powerful district judge you can believe that Human Resources isn't going to do anything about her sorry ass either.
My boss brought a pacifier hanging from a lanyard to a meeting one day. She told us that the next person who had a complaint about work would have to wear that pacifier for the entire day. That is a form of harassment and humiliation. Never mind that the complaints she was receiving were legitimate ones. She was just too damn lazy to do anything about them.
She allowed my supervisor to treat her employees like dirt. I was screamed at, set up for failure just so she could yell at me and blamed for things that I had nothing to do with.
I don't care how much the job pays, it is not worth it if you go home crying every night because of the unfair treatment that you receive.
I wonder what the Dept. of labor would have to say about such things.
I once temped at a Hosp's computer rm where the man who was training me had a nasty attitude and the boss knew it to wit I asked why it was tolerated, never got an real answer.
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You're preaching to the choir. I had a female boss that ordered grown-up adults to go stand in the corner when they screwed-up. They did, too! She had them so in fear of her that they wouldn't report her to human resources. I was a "temp," and was outside her control. I reported her to MY superiors. They did nothing! Money talks, and bullsh*t walks. Yes, the convent IS a return to the Middle Ages!!
They were fools to put up with it.
A friend worked for Century 21 Dept. stores where there was this boss who's name was Catherine Alexander (right like in the film OSOM)she would yell at people or one would hear things like "Don't let CA see that" hey no way anyone has to put up with dictator bosses period.
One other item once I was sent to an interview where one of the first things of the the manager's mouth was "I'm a yeller" to which "I replied I'm agoing"
Telling him to go yell at someone else who would be stupid enough to put up with such nonsense.
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"They were fools to put up with it."
Yes, as WE learned when the WHOLE department was outsourced. Including The Boss. She became one of the outsourced, too. When we were taken over by another company, EVERYBODY shunned her. Poetic justice. As Billy Joel says, "don't take sh*t from ANYBODY."
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
There is no way in the world I could ever become a nun if I had to be constantly humiliated and have to ask permission for something as simple as drinking a sip of water when I was thirsty.
Absolutely. But it's important to realize that almost all orders have changed radically in the 80 years since the time of the story. There's an excellent user review by user 'gabrielcsl' which explains some of the changes since then.
Edward
The goal of being a nun is not to be honest - it's to be a servant of God. You cannot be a good servant unless you put yourself below everything in the world - including your own desires and intelligence.
Sister Luke learned there were no "good" outcomes for her, despite her very capable medical and nursing abilities: she was either going to fail her test and not get to go to the Congo - OR else she was going to go against the advice of Mother Emmanuel, pass her test and STILL not get to go to the Congo (because of her insubordination).
Actually, using "nun logic," it makes sense: had Sister Luke been recognized as a very talented, smart, capable nurse of tropical diseases from the get-go, she would/might have gained a sense of pride - and even incurred some sort of jealousy among the other nuns. This would have gone totally against the notion of "humility."
In the end, perhaps Mother Superior was right: Sister Luke felt overly-confident in her abilities to deal with patient - and that is exactly what got her into trouble with the Archangel. Later, she admitted exactly to that: too much pride and not obeying.
The new Mother Superior re-assured her and told her that it was wrong for Sister Emmanuel to ask her to fail the test, but the lesson to Sister Luke had been delivered nonetheless - and in very effective manner.
"Don't call me 'honey', mac."
"Don't call me 'mac'... HONEY!"
"The goal of being a nun is not to be honest."
And you wonder WHY people don't go to church, anymore. I enjoyed the movie because of Audrey's performance. Period.
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
"In the end, perhaps Mother Superior was right: Sister Luke felt overly-confident in her abilities to deal with patient - and that is exactly what got her into trouble with the Archangel. Later, she admitted exactly to that: too much pride and not obeying.
The new Mother Superior re-assured her and told her that it was wrong for Sister Emmanuel to ask her to fail the test, but the lesson to Sister Luke had been delivered nonetheless - and in very effective manner."
I would have preferred that this kind of 'lesson' potentially hadn't been at the expense of sick folks.
If you are going to send someone to work with folks stricken with tropical diseases and the like, you ought to send your best and brightest.
Otherwise, why send anyone at all?
JMHO
"I'm here because I believe in a free Narnia."
I think it was wrong, too, but I understand why she asked her to fail her exam so another sister could go. One has to be willing to give up everything, everything for the sake of others. The idea is to emulate Christ's ultimate sacrifice. She could have re-taken the test and passed later.
On the other hand, exactly what you said -- it would be lying, and it would be not doing her best with what God gave her. There are some very fine lines in the struggle to master things like self-will and pride, and I believe the sister who asked her to fail her exams crossed that line.
Let's just say that God doesn't believe in me.
If I were Audrey's character (once I lied at the request of this head nun so another practically & emotionally less accomplished sister get carte blanche to return to the Congo & I ended up on an asylum jumped on by a psychotic with the charming name of "Archangel" who left me with a mangled face) I would invite said head nun to come visit me at the premises where I would proceed to give her a free tour of the facilitie's basement and...push her into the cell with Archangel. As she gets HER face re-arranged, I would calmly tell her to keep her vow of silence & to welcome her "humiliation" just like I did.
Sorry. Those were wicked thoughts. I take it all back. I'm a sinner. Forgive me.
;)
10 Hail Marys, 10 Our Fathers, and you have to ask everybody on this chatboard to pray for you. ;)
You've got me?! Who's got you?!
It would have been a colossal waste of precious church resources, built from donations by the faithful from their meager fortunes so that good deeds could be done around the world, to have the best and brightest deliberately throw away an expensive and elite education. Pretty bad move for the supposedly frugal sisters.
Jesus Christ did tell the parable of the servants with their talents. One buried his talents under a bushel and Jesus declared this was WRONG. He also stated the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath, so these societies with iron-clad rules of obedience in which you are denied the freedom to exercise the judgment God gave you is not quite Christian either.
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Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.
You're right, and asking her to fail a test on purpose was just the beginning!
I finally watched the whole movie today, having only seen pieces of it over the years. Parts of it played like a gothic horror move: it was sad to watch such a smart, beautiful person get pounded down and brainwashed as if in a cult.
I was very happy for her character at the end.
I was all of 12 when I saw the film in 1959 seeing how modest and mild most of the nuns were portrayed almost was unreal as my 2nd year conformation school teacher/nun had nasty ways about her and called the boys "honey"
Seeing the film again years later I was also glad she left.
BTW friends this makes two times we see Audrey Hepburn as a nun who leaves the order. The other being "Robin and Marian"
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Standards for the religious life are to emulate Christ and to aspire to be as perfect as he was. Obedience to a higher order is stressed. There are many successful nuns and priests who are certainly not perfect and who continue to break the rules but who will ask forgiveness and soldier on. It is an extremely difficult life, especially when your superiors could be psychologically not well.
IMO Sister Luke set an impossibly high standard of perfectionism for herself to become a good nun. Every time she made a mistake, she was devastated and punished herself more severely than any of her superiors did. In fact, many religious told her that she was too hard on herself. I think the main reason she left the convent was that she could not accept human frailty in herself when it came to convent life. As a nurse, she must have had patients deteriorate and die. It seems she was able to accept that she could not help everyone to have a successful outcome, but was unable to do that in her life as a nun.
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They were jealous and pushed their superiority on her. Yes she needed to learn a little humility but, they definitely needed to learn some too.
shareYeah, esp. that Sister Pauline. Who is that bitch to say Sister Luke was the one who was prideful and could never be a good nun?! Isn't that, in itself, not only prideful, but arrogant, vicious, and showing jealousy/envy as well? Yet, rather than being called out, Sister Pauline was coddled and enabled!
Teaching someone humility is one thing, but sick patients shouldn't have to suffer at the hands of someone like Sister Pauline, who is absolutely useless as a nurse and as a nun and would rather be vengeful, selfish, and bring others down to make herself feel better rather than elevating her own damn self! She could learn a lesson from poor Simone who is kind and actually humble enough to admit her faults and cut her losses without bringing anyone down with her.
I hated the nuns like Mother Marcella and Sister Pauline! They are insufferable! Thank goodness for Mother Christoph, what a sweetheart! *She* is who these so-called godly servants should aspire to be!