MovieChat Forums > Danger Within (1960) Discussion > Unusual movie - Italians!

Unusual movie - Italians!

posted 16 years ago by Altho73
14 replies | jump to latest

An enjoyable movie and whilst not unique it is certainly unusual -

For once British Prisoners of War are not held in a POW camp run by the Germans (how many times have we seen that one????) but by Italians. Where else have you seen that??? Von Ryan's Express is the only one that comes to mind.

Another thing - Captain Benucci is portrayed as a committed fascist and a totally ruthless and unpleasant person (there must have been thousands like him in reality but they are seldom shown on film) - so different from the usual portrayal of Italian soldiers in movies.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

Exactly. The great and underrated character actor Peter Arne portrayed a realistic Italian Fascist officer who was actually smart although totally evil, not a hapless buffoon like almost every other Italian soldier in an American or British POW movie. Of course, the Germans no doubt shot Benucci for letting all his prisoners escape. I am of Italian ancestry myself, and I have long objected to the "whitewashing" Italian soldiers are given in some WWII films. The truth is few were particularly brave, and some, as in every army, were not particularly nice.

[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

If you want to see Italians at war try "Italiani Brava Gente" 1965(Attack Or Retreat),"Lion Of The Desert"(1980)or what is certainly one of my favourite films "El Alamein" from 2002.There`s a curious offering from 1994 called "The Ascent" which is set in a British POW camp during the forgotten East African campaign-the premise is an Italian escapes just to prove that he can climb a mountain or something similar-sounds a bit dubious but haven`t seen it yet so don`t know if it`s any good.If you want a bitter-sweet comedy try "Mediterraneo"(1991) or late 50`s action in "The Silent Enemy" showing Italian "Chariot" attacks on British shipping in Gibraltar.Forget Captain Corelli,which is a truly disasterous film, and watch "El Alamein" which I`d certainly rank as one of the best foreign war films ever made.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

I have seen most of those films, including "Captain Corelli's Mandolin." "Mediterraneo" is an interesting and enjoyable film, but it has been criticized, somewhat justly, for whitewashing the Italian Army in Greece. I saw an earlier film about EL Alamein, "La Battaglia di El Alamein" (1969)starring Frederick Stafford and Michael Rennie, which was also good. It was about an Italian Army lieutenant played by Stafford, ashamed of his cowardly troops (including his own brother) and desperately trying to prove his own courage. I have not seen "The Ascent," but it might be interesting. Alberto Sordi and David Niven made "The Best of Enemies" (1962), which was about the war in East Africa, but played mostly for laughs. Thanks for the suggestion about the 2002 version of "El Alamein". It sounds interesting and I'll see if I can find it at my local video store.

[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

Let me know what you think about El Alamein.It`s out on U.S. r1,Italian language with English subtitles or there is an Italian r2 dvd apparently without English subtitles.

Have you seen a film called "Uomini Contro"(1970)which depicts the Italian Austro-Hungarian front during WW1?(can`t be too many of those!)It had a video release in Italy some while ago but no dvd anywhere unfortunately-just wondering if you`ve come across it?Seems to get good reviews from the very few people who`ve seen it.

I`ve actually got the Michael Rennie(doesn`t he play Monty?)film on order so quite looking forward to seeing it.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

I speak Italian well so "El Alamein" shouldn't be a problem.

I've never seen "Uomini Contro" but it sounds interesting. Actually I have seen a few Italian WWI movies. Many of them starred Frank Lattimore, an American-born actor, and a few weren't bad. Of course, they made the Italians out to be better soldiers than they actually were. They could handle the Austro-Hungarians but they were no match for the Germans.

Michael Rennie does play Montgomery in "La Battaglia di El Alamein." However, since it is an Italian film, neither he nor Rommel are sympathetic characters. Judge for yourself, but some of the Italian charges against Rommel were true. Having fought against the Italians in WWI, he had little respect for them. Also, by Rommel's orders, there were no reprisals against Arabs who killed Italian soldiers for allegedly raping Arab women. However, killing German soldiers for the same reason was punishable by death.

[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

Saw "Battle Of El Alamein" yesterday and it was much better than I thought it would be.Most of these Italian films from the late 60`s early 70`s are cheaply made,have ridiculous or comedic plots and terrible dubbing but this one clearly had a decent budget and a competent director.If you want a nice 2.35:1 widescreen print there`s an American dvd by Marengo Films coupled with Go For Broke which is probably the best version anywhere.

Yes, from what I`ve read over the years the Germans really didn`t seem to have a lot of respect for the Italians and vice-versa.They considered them second-rate soldiers and liable to surrender to the first "Tommy" they could find.The Italians considered the Germans supremely arrogant.There`s an element of truth to both statements but there were a few exceptional Italian units which were respected by both British & German such as the Folgore Division,which you see quite extensively in the above film with a few Bersaglieri thrown in for good measure.These Italian Paratroops were originally formed and trained with the intention of capturing Malta but after the severe losses by the Falshirmjaeger at Crete this plan was vetoed.Most of them were either killed or captured at Alamein as depicted in the film.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

Glad you liked it. I thought you would. I know about the Folgore Division and the Bersaglieri, but they were definitely in the minority. I've heard the Italian troops who fought in the Eastern Front did a bit better. That, I think, was because they knew how brutally the Russians treated their prisoners. The British and Americans were kind in comparison. I approved of Robert Hossein's portrayal of Rommel. British and American films have made him far nobler than he really was.

I'm sure you noticed that Frederick Stafford's character, Lt. Borri, was ashamed of the Italian reputation for cowardice. He was especially disgusted by his own brother, Claudio (Enrico Maria Salerno), who only wanted to return to his wife and children. Lt. Borri tried so hard to prove his own courage that he became foolhardy, and sacrificed his life needlessly.

Ironically, by 1943 the brother was no doubt safely and comfortably ensconced in a POW camp in Canada or the USA while his family was being ravaged with the rest of Italy, caught between the Allies and the Germans. Although I am of Italian ancestry, I have no respect for men who desert their families to save their own skins. If they thought Italy would somehow be spared from invasion and devastation, they were lying to themselves to justify their cowardly actions.

Trivia: Frederick Stafford, although thought of as a British actor, was actually an ethnic Austrian born in Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic) in 1928.

[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

Rommel was certainly respected by the British and even Churchill gave him grudging praise in the House of Commons DURING the war.He certainly gave the Eighth Army a real run-around for a number of years despite having fewer men and supplies.It`s important to remember though that although not a Nazi,he fervently admired Hitler and only changed his tune when the Afrika Korps were abandoned in Tunisia and the fortunes of war started to turn.His portrayal was good here and I also thought Michael Rennie worked surprisingly well as Monty.Sure Rennie was dubbed but the accent is good although without Monty`s slight speech impediment-nice and sharp though with some choice Monty lines:"It smells down here."

It`s an age old joke now but the British used to comment that the Italian tanks only had one gear:reverse!The reason for poor Italian soldiery can be attributed to bad leadership,equipment up to a point, but the real reason was a total lack of motivation.There were undoubtedly many fascists who believed in Mussolini`s dream of a new Empire but when 300,000 Italian troops were defeated by 30,000 British troops at the start of the Desert campaign I think that tells you what some of them thought of a new Empire.

As soon as Mussolini sided with Hitler then I`m afraid Italy was doomed.I think it was an American journalist who commented that Mussolini was like a vulture-picking the carcass left by a much bolder bird of prey-or something similar.

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

Certainly Rommel had to be respected as a general. I just pointed out that he was not quite the noble, likable gentleman James Mason and others made him out to be. He was often arrogant and even many non-Nazi German generals thought he had a superior attitude. If you have seen "The Desert Fox," I don't think it even mentioned the Italians.

I'm of Sicilian ancestry so I consider myself free to state the truth. The performance of Italian soldiers in every war since the fall of Rome has been considerably less than stellar. As soldiers, Italians make great opera singers. Their cousins in the United States, Canada, and Australia, however, have often distinguished themselves. Let's face it, the Italians had to cheat to defeat the Ethiopians in 1936. In 1896, the Ethiopians beat them.

The only good thing to be said for Mussolini was that while he hated Jews and persecuted them, he didn't want to kill them. Also, when Mussolini met with Hitler in 1943, he urged the German leader to sue for peace. Hitler flew into a rage and threatened to kill him and wipe out as many as 100 Italian villages if Mussolini did not continue the fight with what few Fascist troops he had left. A weak man, Il Duce caved in, as he did on the issue of the Jews. Both times, his actions were inexcusable.

[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

Yes, although I largely thought James Mason was good as Rommel it was hardly a thorough biopic of the man`s life which we really need-i.e."warts & all".I also posted on the "Desert Fox" board a while back stating that I would like to see perhaps the start of his career in WW1 where he did indeed fight against the Italians.The Desert campaign,between April 41 and up to Alamein 42,where he largely made his name and had his greatest successes, is disappointingly brief.

My father is from Napoli and it`s fascinating to have this other culture mixed up with my British heritage.Since the fall of Rome Italian military success has been notably absent and I think a lot of this also comes down to the Italian character.What British or even German outsiders will probably call a "slap-dash" attitute to life,disorganized without proper rules and regulations,,content with life`s pleasures,.It`s a hell of a generalization but there`s an element of truth to it. Italy has had over 50 governments since the end of WW2-something that would horrify the British ,Germans but they still seem to muddle through without an apparent care in the world.They`re certainly prouder of their cuisine,football,art than anything they`ve achieved on the battlefied.Britains are proud of their military heritage, although when you`ve got an under-achieving football team like England it`s nice to cling on to something.

Mussolini famously made the trains run on time-we need someone like him to sort out the British transport system which is rubbish!

I`d actually forgotten about another film you may find interesting which is called "The Fallen"(2004)-it`s set in Italy towards the end of WW2 and centres around a small squad of Germans,Americans and Italian soldiers still fighting with the Germans.It`s a low-budget effort but it`s got modest action scenes,good dialogue and shows some nice tensions between the Germans,Italians.Well worth a watch.

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[–] The_Khazi 16 years ago

lol

[–] pmiano100 16 years ago

I totally agree with you about Rommel. Although not a Nazi or an evil man, like most German generals, he would have gladly fought another world war if the Hohenzollerns had been in charge. Even Beck would have done it if he had thought Germany had a chance of winning.

I totally agree with you about the Italian character. My ancestry is Sicilian, which in many ways is even worse. The Italians paid for that "slap-dash" attitude during WWII when their soldiers deserted them for the comfort of POW camps, leaving Italy to be ravaged by war and starvation for two years, from 1943 to 1945. Sadly, they learned nothing. When their cowardly soldiers returned home, their families welcomed them back as if the soldiers had been the ones who'd suffered. Americans and Britons of the day would have spit in their faces.

However, if the Moslems ever take over Italy and then try to abolish wine, vermouth, pork, and short skirts, I have no doubt the Italians will finally get mad enough to fight at last.

Regarding art, the Italian film industry has long been in decline. They need another Vittorio De Sica.

I'd rather have slow trains in a democracy that on-time ones in a tyranny.

I'll try to find "The Fallen." Thanks for the tip.