Spoilers
Can't say I liked everything about this film (I'll have to join those complaining about Gwen) but towards the end it does get better and better. Anyway, I thought the greatest moment was when Bama took his hat off - that's the scene that made me cry, not Ginnie dying.
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I loved the scene when Ginny approached the teacher, Gwen. For me, that was the climax. I didn't care for the ending. The jealous boyfriend seemed a bit unreasonable.
I'm really disappointed by the vhs because the cinemascope frame is really mangled by the full screen presentation.
one of my fave films of Sinatra and/or Martin, I LOVE the scene where Frank walks out, hung over and still in his Army uniform (having slept in it), and Dean--in Tshirt, boxers AND HAT (first thing in the morning)--says:
'Boy, you sure don't look pretty this morning, Dave...WOW!'
put me on the floor...
'We all dream of being a child again - even the worst of us. Perhaps the worst most of all...'
Just now finished watching this. It was alright, although very dated.
My favorite scene is just before the end, some blonde kid tells Bama (Dean Martin) that Ray is looking for Dave (Sinatra) and Ray's pretty drunk and has a gun. Then we cut to outside, super dramatic music starts, the lighting is saturated red, the gunman stumbles to the middle of the screen, shown only in silhouette, then takes a dramatic, back-arching, head thrown back swig of a bottle before lurching off camera right. I laughed and laughed. It was so over the top, so cliche, so much a self-parody that it was beyond parody.
"dramatic, back-arching, head thrown back swig " Great description!!! Without question that scene is genius. The director is like an Indy driver pushing his car right to the edge. To me it is not over the top but as close to it as you could get.
shareI agree with Kapinosp. The scene with the two women was almost heartbreaking. Shirley MacLaine was excellent. I think she borrowed heavily from this character when she made Sweet Charity many years later.
I didn't care for the ending either. It was too cliche. While I loved the character of Ginnie, it didn't make sense that he was in such a hurry to marry her.
I read an anecdote about this film years ago...
Sinatra--who didn't like to rehearse or do multiple takes--was being hassled by the producer or director that they were a few days behind schedule--and he grabbed the script out of the guy's hand, tore out some pages, and said "there--now we're a week ahead'. Later, when he realized (or was told) that the torn-out pages contained some of MacLaine's character's best scenes, he said 'Let the kid take the bullet--she'll probably win an Oscar...'
true? who knows...
'We all dream of being a child again - even the worst of us. Perhaps the worst most of all...'
I saw this movie on December 31, 1958. I was separated from my husband and living about 70 miles away from him in Detroit. He drove down to see me and take me to the movies. And yes, my favorite scene was Shirley McClain's fantastic performance when she went to see the teacher. Some of the best acting I've ever seen. Contrasted with the stiff acting of the school teacher (can't remember her or the actress's name), hard to believe Minelli directed them both.
maggimae83
maggimae,
The actress's name who played the school teacher was Martha Hyer!...I think knowing how Minelli was this is the way he wanted Miss Hyers character to be!.Interesting that you can remember the exact date you were at this movie..Makes some of us wonder how your life turned-out!
Thanks for asking. My former husband died of alcoholism at the age of 62. He was married 5 times to 4 women. I have been married for 32 years to the man of my dreams.
sharemaggimae,
Thanks for your response!...Glad to know things turned out very well for you...I guess I'm still just a hopeless romantic!
Maggiemae, I'm just now reading your story. I'm glad things turned out well for you.
shareMy favorite scene also was when Ginn comes to see Gwen. MacLaine made her so pathetic I wanted to cry.
kapinosp says > I loved the scene when Ginny approached the teacher, Gwen. For me, that was the climax. I didn't care for the ending. The jealous boyfriend seemed a bit unreasonable.Ginny going to see Gwen was tacky and completely inappropriate especially at her place of work. It would it be like Gwen walking in on Ginny while she was plying her trade with some random man.
I think this is a masterpiece, with great scope images and a daring use of colour but deep, sympathetic characterisations of just about everyone: even Raymond is a tragic figure, lost in his final on-camera moments as all he fought for is lost by his own hand.
Anyhow, my favourite moments (I cannot restrict myself to one) are:
the "milk fed quarterback" line when Dave becomes Bama's lodger - the closeness and cameraderie of the two men in an instant;
Ginny eating a burger - the best eating and talking scene ever, MacLaine is never better than here;
The sudden switch in lighting when Dave first embraces Gwen, from bright daylight to silhouette in an instant: it's not naturalistic, but it works like gangbusters;
And, yes, Bama removing his hat - resonant, simple. Brings me to tears 9 times in 10.
I love the scene where Dave is being so mean to Ginnie and calling her stupid and everything, and she just throws her arms around him and is hugging him, and says, "Oh I love you so awful, awful much! I never felt this way about anybody before!". The pain of being rejected by someone that you care about so much, and probably knowing that they are just using you -- is so real here. I cry every time during that scene.
shareI think this film is a masterpiece so I have many favourite scenes(including the obvious bit of the finale), the one I like the most is the seduction scene between Dave and Gwen with him staring at her through the door mesh and she's sitting bathed in the light coming from the window and then the bit when Minnelli shuts out all the light as they become silhouettes and obviously make love.
I also like the moment when Bama is in the hospital and squabbles with the nurse and that scene at the nightclub where Rosalie is obviously high on some drug or the other and then the dance where Ginny puts her head on a pillow on Dave's shoulder.
The fairground finale is one of the highest moments in film history. Comparable as a work of montage and mise-en-scene to Eisenstein, Welles, Hitchcock and the emotional impact is DEVASTATING.
And the very last scene, one of the most simplest and yet obviously elaborate long takes - Two zigzagging pans which goes first left to Dave and then pans to the right across to Bama as he takes off his hat and then beyond him to horizon at the end of the stretching river.
"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes
The seduction scene is pretty amazing. I love how Minnelli uses lighting to show his character's darkness and hidden desires/shames. It's so...cinematic.
I think my favorite is just this really special moment that should've been an outtake: when Dave is dealing cards and he says, "Ain't that a kick in the head?" You can see Dean Martin stifle back a laugh and breaking character. And then he and Sinatra just look at each other with love and respect. It's just so special to see their love for each other.
And I love any part where Shirley MacLaine is on-screen, especially when Dave finishes reading her his story and she angers him when she can't give him a coherent answer as to why she loved it. "I don't understand you but I like you! I love you!" Oh, it's perfection. Her performance is officially among my very favorites of all time. She holds nothing back.
"GOD--WAS--WRONG!"--James Mason, Bigger Than Life
I love how Minnelli uses lighting to show his character's darkness and hidden desires/shames. It's so...cinematic.
And the use of sound, not only Elmer Bernstein's music but when he pulls pins out of hair bun and we hear it drop to the floor in thuds...extremely sexy and then the camera moves close and with the exposed hair it's like she's in the nude. Amazingly well played by Martha Hyer there(in real life Mrs. Hal Wallis) and Sinatra of course just nails his character.
I think my favorite is just this really special moment that should've been an outtake: when Dave is dealing cards and he says, "Ain't that a kick in the head?" You can see Dean Martin stifle back a laugh and breaking character. And then he and Sinatra just look at each other with love and respect. It's just so special to see their love for each other.
I actually found out about that bit later. I didn't know any of Dean Martin's music when I saw the film but even then I could tell there was something special in the interactions between both actors. Like the bit where they harass that gambler into taking of his hat. He suspects that Sinatra is cheating somewhat because of that phonecall he recieved during the game(which he thinks a spy is telling him who has what cards) and then wants to know what's under Bama's hat. "He has a radio transmitter under there giving us secret messages." The film's many scenes revolving around them influenced GoodFellas alongside the use of color and style, the famous "You Think I'm Funny" scene is in that tradition as well. Minnelli said that he was inspired by the insides of a jukebox for the colour scheme of the film. That applies to Scorsese's gangster epics equally.
Her performance is officially among my very favorites of all time. She holds nothing back.
Yeah. It's pretty much her best role. And she has Sinatra to thank. Because in the original novel it was Dave who got shot and not Ginny. Sinatra said, "shoot the kid maybe they'll give her an Oscar." She got nominated. Smart guy.
Early Shirley MacClaine is terrific. Her film debut was in Hitchcock's The Trouble With Harry(a great film and she's terrific in it) this film made her a dramatic star. Then of course there was The Apartment and The Children's Hour, also a nice comedy called Ask Any Girl. Her role in Bob Fosse's Sweet Charity is a lot like Ginny.
The most moving bit was the final moment between Dave and Ginny(and in the background you have this beautiful sad carousel music) and she promises, "I'm going to be a good wife to you, Dave!" and she proves it. Her character despite being the least intelligent, the most disreputable was the best human being that any of them ever knew. At the risk of being pretentious, she cuts a very cute Christ figure in this film(but then the Gospel reading over the funeral confirms it).
"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes
The film is so full of wonderful stuff that one hardly knows where to begin. I think my favorite scene is in the middle of the film when Dave Hirsch goes to Gwen French's house with his latest manuscript. There is a long section of the film with little dialogue, just visuals, one exterior along the Ohio River, and some wonderful music. The scene culminates in Dave seducing Gwen; quite fascinating.
I think that Ms. Hyer was pretty good in this film. I think that one of her challenges was that she was not an ideal physical match for Sinatra - she was just as tall and bigger-framed physically than he, and women's wear was not in its greatest era (shirtwaist dresses). The role was a very tough one. Besides the seduction scene, she was very good in the scene in the college classroom with Ms. MacLaine.
Sinatra was very good in this film; watch his scenes with MacLaine and how he reacts - he's really there for her.
I agree - this is probably Dean Martin's best film.
MacLaine is amazing.
Finally, Vicente Minnelli's direction and William Daniels' cinematography are excellent. Minnelli's touch with actors is exceptional in this film and his next one, "Home From The Hill."
I think my favorite is just this really special moment that should've been an outtake: when Dave is dealing cards and he says, "Ain't that a kick in the head?" You can see Dean Martin stifle back a laugh and breaking character. And then he and Sinatra just look at each other with love and respect. It's just so special to see their love for each other.
I did not like this film, but Shirley MacLaine was wonderful. Basically any scene she is in are precious highlights in an otherwise mediocre movie.
voting history: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=629013
Have not posted here before but I always loved the scene when Sinatra reads his story to Shirley and gets frustrated at her for not understanding it. And she tells him that does not mean she likes it, she dosn't understand him but she loves him. Sinatra is so flawless in tha scene and I thought Manchurian Candidate was a great performance.
shareI thought this film was fantastic, and I have an even greater appreciation after being reminded of some of the great scenes listed in this thread. Here are a few of mine, some mentioned already:
1. Bama takes off his hat. What a powerful, non-spoken moment. Everything about Dino's body language expresses utter defeat and humility--the drawn expression on his face, the slight hunched posture & the way he's almost ready to fall over, not to mention the shadows, etc. Simple yet brilliant.
2. Ginny listening to Dave reading his story. Not just her speech at the end, but even leading up to it, she looks like a little kid listening to a bedtime story. Even when he starts to interrogate her, her responses are so innocent and earnest (though vapid). When he lays into her, it's almost painful.
3. Ginny eating a sandwich at the bar. Someone mentioned this, and I agree... one of the best eating/talking scenes ever!
4. The wedding. Oh gawd that was brutal. The most depressing wedding I've ever seen, so desolate & meaningless (despite Ginny's enthusiasm). No kiss. When Dave turns around and pays the two witnesses, I wanted to hide under a rock.
5. The whole carnival scene. An extension of the horrible wedding, but with a sudden Hitchcockian terror building up (despite the 2 victims' obliviousness). You know someone's going to get it, but you're not sure who. It was a stroke of genius to kill Ginny because that's really much more tragic than if Dave had gotten whacked.
6. Ginny meets schoolteacher. Wow, what diametric opposites. The bitter schoolteacher gets all catty and makes a remark like "But you do have a 'reputation'", and even though Ginny understands the meaning, she doesn't take it as an insult at all. Instead she smiles and says "Oh, Dave doesn't care about that." Great scene, shows you how ugly snobs are when confronted with goodness.
Tons more, but I'll leave it at that... sheesh... what a great movie.
My favorite scene is when Sinatra finally gets 'it'.
'It' is when he finally realizes what true love is when Ginny tells him she doesn't understand him but loves him anyway and that there is nothing wrong with that. Sinatra's reaction is such that I can almost hear the ding sound of the bell going off in his head.
Actually the whole movie is a string of memorable scenes for me. One of my top 5 films.
I like the whole movie, but the scene where Dave stands in the doorway and tells his bro that his daughter knows what Dave knows stands out because the sinner is outing another sinner.
Why ain't you at the garden party you heathen?
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