MovieChat Forums > Popiól i diament (1961) Discussion > great film but don't forget its pro Stal...

great film but don't forget its pro Stalinist government


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I love this film,it looks beautiful and is an interesting story.
I also like Wadja'S other films such as KANAL and A GENERATION.

The films are so good,and Wadja later made anti government films,so people seem not to notice that his early films are pro the Stalinist anti Polish Russian backed government that took over in Poland after the war.

The message of this film seems to be,lets stop fighting each other and work with the new (unelected,Russian backed)government.
Later films would be made admitting that the early years of communist rule were too harsh and full of mistakes.

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I'm Pole and I can assure you that the message of "Popiol i diament" is not pro stalinists government. I know that it's difficult to understand when you are foreign but it's true, believe me. Your message is wrong. That is not so simple. The movie is deeply connected with our national tradition, history and literature.

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It must be partly pro communist government or he would not have been allowed to make it would he?
I agree it is more sympathetic to the non communist resistance than you might expect.
You are a Pole but unless you are 80 years old or a historian can you really say what the film's message was at the time it was first shown?

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I'm not 80. I'm not a historian. But I'm a Pole and I finished high-school, I learned a lot about our history and I read a lot of books concerning polish tradition, history and national mentality. I think, GeorgeNewman' s message is closer Wajda's than yours.

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I have taken 2 Polish Cinema courses at my university (Univ of Florida) and I can speak confidently on the political position of this film and Wajda's intentions.
Here is the Polish historical perspective: 1) first there is Poland. 2)then Poland is invaded and occupied by the Nazis. 3)The Soviets invade drive off the Nazis. 4)the "liberation" is in fact just another invasion and occupation. The Poles were not communist, it was forced upon them.

ASHES AND DIAMONDS is about the Polish nation's tragic circumstances, and hopelessness. Earlier I wrote about how Maciek and the resistance fighters were heroes-turned-criminals; let me clarify. During the Nazi occupation, the resistance fighters would be considered patriotic Heroes. Then the soviets "save the day," but Poland is once again occupied. Poland was trapped under the heel of their Soviet "saviors" so to resist them would be criminal.
In the film Maciek and Andzrej and the captain want Poland to be completely free of everything and so the mission is to kill the soviet leader, Szczuka.
Also take into consideration that the film is set during the day and night of the end of the war. Everything is in flux. What is patriotic one day is treason the next. This is Maciek's dilemna.

You talk about the film needing to be pro-communist to have been made or released. Wajda gets away with this by having "soviet justice" served in the form of Maciek being killed at the end of the film. He doesn't get away with the murder of a government leader, which stays within soviet morality. But that is a superficial explanation. The truth is Maciek's death exemplifies the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation Poland was in. His death makes the situation that much more grave and tragic. And it was realistic. What would you expect to happen? Wajda wasn't going to rewrite history about some grand Polish victory over soviet oppression. This was the reality: they were screwed.

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~~~~~The Poles were not communist, it was forced upon them.~~~~~

As were the nazi and bourgeois regimes before it. Notice that a subtler version of what the Sovs did in their sphere of influence occurred in the USuk zone too.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

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This is not a ProStalinist films by any means.

"The message...seems to be let's stop fighting and work with each other w/ the new government."

You drew this conclusion from a flawed perspective. I say this because evidently you did not take into account Maciek's (and that of the Resistance) tragic dilemna.
This film is about the tragic situation surrounding the Polish Resistance. They were heroes fighting for Poland, but once the war was over they became fugitives.

It is about being wounded and damaged during and after the war. Poland was invaded. Then, at the moment of liberation they are enslaved, and they could do nothing to prevent it.

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I don't think they were heroes in the eyes of the Stalinist government,they were said to be reactionary and agents of the evil London Poles.
The communists resistance were the ones post war Poles were meant to look up to.

I don't think I am stupid,I still think that this film follows the political line of the Polish government,lets all pool together under the communist party.

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I think, there is a difference between how polish communists (government) perceived this film and Wajda's idea. However, thhis film is not pro-communism neither anti-communism. Wajda would not make a pro-communism movie because communist killed his parents during the WW2...

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In a sense the film follows the line of the Polish government, to build a new Poland instead of fighting - but it's a coincidence. It does not share a communist ideology, only a will to live. Wajda (and author of the original novel), having war experiences, tried to show a tragic fate of young people, who had to fight instead of enjoying life and love. Anti-Soviet resistance made no sense after the war, and it led only to pointless deaths, on both sides. There was a 19th century movement in Poland (partitioned among Russia, Prussia and Austria) called "basic work" - to stop fighting and to teach people, strengthen local economy, introduce modern agriculture and industry etc - and many people after World War II, not sharing communist ideology, chose that way as well. It was communist Poland, but it was the only Poland, and it needed a lot of work to reconstruct it after great war damage. Further deaths had no sense. And films, made by Wajda and others, were also in a way a "basic work", helping to remind who we are, what we were fighting for and what tragic history should not be forgotten and should not repeat. They were the first to show Home Army fighters as positive heroes. Note, that making films of the "Polish film school" was possible only after Stalin's death and crash of stalinism in 1956. By the way, political change in 1956 was really considered a "fresh air" - for some time at least.

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The Soviet government allowed this film to be released because they thought the Polish people would identify with Szczuka as a tragic figure. He was depicted as being a kind man and caring towards other Poles.

Of course, the Soviets thought wrongly and the Poles identified with Maciek instead.

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The film is based on a book written from the perspective of Szczuka. Wajda subverted that perspective (with permission and cooperation from the author) by shifting it more towards Maciek. By giving the film moral ambiguity, Wajda succesfully gave the film more depth than his previous two films.

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The author of this thread is me,a British social democrat.
I am not Polish and I don't support the reactionary party you mention.

Assuming you are not joking you must be one of the very few pro Soviet pro Stalinist Poles left alive.
People who hold your opinions were in power in Poland until the 1980s due to a police state backed up by the Polish army and behind them the Soviet army.

I recall in the late 1970s/1980s the son of the Polish prime minster fled the country because he had a crap life,what of the ordinary people? they had an awful life in a so called worker's state.

I know about the Poles who fought alongside the Soviets in World War 11,what about the Poles who fought alongside the British in World War 11? I reckon their exploits are worth remembering as well.

I take it you won't be rushing to see KATYN?

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This is a film forum, not a political forum for cold war veterans living in the past.

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After all this time someone almost agrees with me.

BLUESDOCTOR does not think it is a great film but I do,but he does agree with me that the film is not anti communist.

The male protagonist did not see himself as a murderer,he thought he was a patriotic soldier,he dies and his cause dies.

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I think the message of the film is, as one reviewer wrote, everything is morally grey. The man who is to be killed is not a bad man. The killers are not bad men. All are stuck in an invidious position; the war's end is being celebrated as liberation from tyranny but Poland, like some other countries, will enjoy no such liberation. I'm glad you think it's a great film and don't adhere to bluesdoctor's poisonous view.

Years will pass and ages will roll by
But traces of bygone days will remain
And all the poppies on Monte Cassino
Will be redder from growing in Polish blood

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

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