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How Is This Film 'Better' Than Titanic(1997)?


i admit "A Night To Remember" is a first rate piece of film. plus the
J. Arthur Rank Company did a marvelous with the sets etc.... buy why
is ANTR considered a "better" film than "Titanic"(1997).

a few points that bothered me-

1.why is the Molly Brown character never refered to as Molly Brown?

2.why was Benjamin Guggenhiem played by an actor wayyyyyy older
than Guggenhiem was?

3. was Lightoller a snoppy s.o.b. as portrayed in Cameron's film
or was he the jolly good chap played by Kenneth More?

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ANTR is considered better because it's the true story (more or less) of the ship's sinking, without fictional characters, a sappy love story and cartoon villains to mar the narrative. It's a complex narrative that shows in a realistic manner the events of that night, how people behaved, the venality and heroism that occurred, the depth of the tragedy. ANTR is also far better written and directed than Titanic 1997, with its one-dimensional cardboard people, a know-it-all heroine and predictable plot. The real life drama of the Titanic was vastly more compelling and interesting than any phony melodrama.

Obviously it has its share or minor errors: Guggenheim was not only younger than the actor playing him in ANTR, he was an American, not English -- but then he was younger than the actor who played him in Cameron's film too; the ship didn't sink in one piece but broke in two, which was stated by some survivors but not accepted in the official reports, and not confirmed until the wreck was found in 1985; and a handful of other, small, items. Overall, ANTR sticks pretty close to the facts throughout.

As to your other two questions:

I also don't know why Molly Brown (her name was actually Maggie Brown) wasn't called by name in ANTR, where she too was played by a British actress. The film also never named the Chairman of the White Star Line, Bruce Ismay; other characters simply called him "Mr. Chairman". I've often wondered whether legal action was threatened, or permission to use a person's name denied, by these people's families.

Lightoller was a more complex character. Walter Lord used him as a convenient hero for his book, and the depiction of him in Titanic 1997 is pretty clearly inaccurate and unfair (as were those of most of the "real people" depicted in that film). But he may not have been as forthright and upright as Kenneth More plays him. Lightoller became something of a hero in real life after Titanic, and was by all accounts an exemplary seaman with an honorable career overall. But he also had an eye for self-promotion, and did tend to embellish his role on Titanic in his later accounts of the disaster. Lightoller died in December 1952, just as production on the film Titanic (1953) was finishing up, and in that movie he's also depicted as a hero, albeit a somewhat minor character (the actor playing him, Edmund Purdom, didn't even get screen credit, though he's in several scenes and shown as a man worried about the ship's course).

Incidentally, the suicide of First Officer Murdoch shown in the '97 film was an utter falsehood. Murdoch died (the other officers survived), but by drowning. This depiction caused such outrage among Murdoch's family that they demanded and got an apology from Cameron for his unnecessary slander on the man.

Titanic (1997) is worthy for two, basically technical, reasons: its stunning rendering of the ship (recreating the staterooms, dining rooms, and so forth, almost to scale), and its spectacular and reasonably accurate rendition of the sinking, which is truly amazing (both in its exterior and even more interesting interior shots). Otherwise, as drama, it's arguably the worst Titanic film yet made.

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1. In real life, she was never called "Molly" Brown. She was called Margaret Brown. "Molly" was the nickname given to her by the media.

2. Sometimes that happens when movies are made about real life events. The actors or actresses are not quite the same age as the people whom they are playing.

3. I hope that he was more like the way Kenneth More played him, than in James Cameron's film.

To answer your title question: The fictional romance between Jack & Rose upstaged the actual tragedy. With ANTR, we focus on the very tragedy itself(& the fact that the stores shown in ANTR are based on actual events help too).




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Otherwise, as drama, it's arguably the worst Titanic film yet made.

Absolutely. You know if anyone was putting in a romance in a disaster movie I'd go with Lean. He'd do wonders with Celia and Trevor (Brief Encounter) and that ship going down! Oh what Brit melodrama would be made....

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"Otherwise, as drama, it's argubly the worst Titanic film yet made."

Which one? ANTR, or James Cameron's movie?

For the record though, the worst one ever made is probably the 1996 miniseries, which came out just a few months prior to the release of James Cameron's movie


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Which one? ANTR, or James Cameron's movie?
That was my first reaction too... but go and read the original paragraph from whence the quote is taken, as I did. Stop after the first word, in bold type.

It wasn't too clear, admittedly, that the opinion was a quotation.


Oh and I think that the new drama miniseries, still running, from "Downton Abbey" writer Julian Fellowes, is awful. It manages to rip off lines from both ANTR AND Cameron's blockbuster (I mean in addition to the lines that Cameron nicked from ANTR); IMHO it's poorly acted; and it's like "Groundhog Day", with the ship sinking and seemingly refloated each week!



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Oh, I'm enjoying the new Titanic miniseries. I realize that they repeated the sinking scene a few times, but, that is so that we can see the tragedy from different POV.






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I think my friend deeveed was referring to Titanic (1997) as the bad film, and ANTR as the best. I had no trouble understanding what he meant, but then I'm pretty sure which film he thinks is better.

I assume the TV miniseries you're talking about is something being broadcast in the UK? If so, it hasn't made it to the US side of the Atlantic -- much like the Titanic itself.

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I think the Titanic did make it to the US side of the Atlantic (as opposed to the UK's east side). It just didn't make south to the dockside at NY... (sorry)

Well this admittedly pedantic comment at your expense is no worse than the Radio Times website reporting: "ITV's Titanic loses 2.5 million viewers overboard. Large numbers jump ship after maiden voyage as BBC's Silent Witness picks up the survivors"


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Ah, just a wee bit pedantic. But fair enough!

I take it ITV's miniseries is not being well-received by press or public. My wife (who's English) and I will be over there in a week. Too bad we've missed the festivities...and the collision.

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You'll both be just in time to watch ANTR on BBC2 television over here on the afternoon of the anniversary 15th April at 3pm BST (BST = GMT+1).

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I would have started the film at 11:40 the night of the 14th and stretched it somehow to 2:20, but then verisimilitude only takes you so far.... But thanks for the heads-up.

We just had a brand-new edition of the film come out on Region 1 DVD (the new cover art on this site), and I plan to watch my copy soon. But we can never have too much ANTR, can we?

By the way, what does everybody find so bad about the current TV series? (The Radio Times review you posted before was hilarious.)

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But we can never have too much ANTR, can we?

Yes sir. It is kind of a well done film I'd say. Now with James' entry he certainly looks like he had success since he did sell a lot of tickets and now more will be sold with the 3D in the there. So he's on a roll. Apparently, he has tapped something in the hearts and minds of the public when it comes to the sinking. I can see that but I guess I'm not one for "sentimentality". Cameron's film has that in spades which is fine as an emotion but with me he just can't make me cry for Leonard and his ever-lovin'!..If you ask me he was going after ladies with the kleenex...;-)....Now I can see that some would think ANTR as too "hard" with its emphasis on the facts or devoid of pity and I think they'd be right. In any case, the two films are on separate stages when it comes to portraying the great Titanic in its demise.

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I think ANTR evokes emotions, but as a British film of its era, the stiff-upper-lip approach of so many Brits would predominate the feeling of the film. Even so, I think there's plenty of real-life emotion -- heartache, terror, courage, selfishness, you name it -- depicted in it to make it a very emotional experience indeed. The fact that it can manage this without reliance on false characters and contrived stories is a great tribute to the film.

Titanic's spectacle is unsurpassed and exceptionally well done. But it is, as you said, on a separate stage from A Night to Remember -- as all the other Titanic films are from one another. It''s interesting that only ANTR chose to give a more or less accurate depiction of the sinking, while all the other Titanic films insisted on invoking fictional characters and events in the proceedings...as if the real event wasn't dramatic enough.

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I think ANTR evokes emotions, but as a British film of its era, the stiff-upper-lip approach of so many Brits would predominate the feeling of the film. Even so, I think there's plenty of real-life emotion -- heartache, terror, courage, selfishness, you name it -- depicted in it to make it a very emotional experience indeed. The fact that it can manage this without reliance on false characters and contrived stories is a great tribute to the film.

Just curious, did the survivors feel ANTR was a "valid" film of the sinking?
I'm sure some survivors went to its first showing. I'd think it would be a tough one for them to have seen it up there on the screen. Emotions wojld have been stoked. They lived it.

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Even in 1958 it would have to have been the younger survivors who would have seen the film, say those 30 or less in 1912.

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There were around 80 or so survivors still living in 1958, and many of them were consulted on the film and visited the set. Virtually all thought the film did justice to the tragedy and were very impressed with it.

Interestingly, many survivors had also felt the same way about the 1953 Titanic, about which many of them were also consulted. But that was the first "modern" depiction of the disaster. ANTR was factual and much more realistic, and so hit home more squarely.

If you read the Acknowledgements in Walter Lord's book, in thanking various people who helped in his research, he wrote, "Helen Hernandez of Twentieth Century Fox has been a gold mine of useful leads." Although he doesn't explain why someone from a movie studio would have been so helpful, quite obviously he's referring to Fox's having produced Titanic two years before Lord's book came out. Helen Hernandez was the long-time secretary to writer-producer Charles Brackett (the former writing partner of Billy Wilder, who had moved from Paramount to Fox soon after their break-up and became one of that studio's major producers and occasional screenwriters). In preparing to film Titanic, they scoured records to find survivors who helped authenticate many details...although the film was certainly an overly-romanticized and often inaccurate version of what happened, even aside from its fictional characters. Even so, Brackett and his co-writers won an Oscar for the film's story.

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There were around 80 or so survivors still living in 1958, and many of them were consulted on the film and visited the set. Virtually all thought the film did justice to the tragedy and were very impressed with it.

Glad for that. They didn't need any more angst after what they experienced.
And you know in the modern day I wouldn't be surprised if a disaster on the scale of the Titanic occurred and there were survivors they'd 'die' to be in a pix about it rather than just simply visiting the set!

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Somehow a movie about the capsizing of the Contra Costa doesn't have the same ring to it.

Actually, I think today the survivors would be much more interested in having some overly glamorous, handsome or sexy movie stars play them, to enhance their own self-images, rather than appearing in the film themselves.

If you get the new Criterion issue of ANTR, there's an hour-long documentary from 1993 about the making of the film included, which has lots of behind-the-scenes footage of the filming. (Seeing the toy lifeboats with mechanical rowers in front of the model Titanic, with stagehands in the water with them, is wonderful.) The documentary also notes the presence of may survivors, and says that the more of them the filmmakers got in touch with, the more survivors they in turn found out about and were able to also contact. There's footage of a number of them visiting the set.

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2nd class passenger Lawrence Beesley was on the set during the filming of the sinking sequence, and reportedly he got on the set and made an attempt to go down with the ship (He was pulled into a lowering lifeboat on it's way down when the real Titanic sank in 1912.)

Not exactly sure why. Maybe he wanted some closure. But Roy Ward Baker wouldn't let him, because of insurance regulations.

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after seeing this right after the 1953 "titanic" i expected this board completely bashing this version, i'm amazed by all the positive comments, while the 1953 titanic rely mostly on miniature, this instead includes stock footage, making this more distracting, and you don't get as closely engaged in this, if this also is using much miniature they certainly has the upper hand when it comes to that, but i was so surprised they started shouting iceberg only 30 minutes in after honor blackman (hardly has time to be in the movie) had just made her entrance, it said on the (great quality) dvd it ran longer than the 1953 movie so i expected it to drag out much more but it was the bonus material included, there were no relations in the movie to get engaged in just crash into the iceberg, it feels clumsy, goofy, much of it badly acted, poorly choice of dialogue, the way they go about in the water looks more like a pool (studio feeling) than cold sea. this was definitely the weakest titanic movie, i don't recall the mini series, but this wasn't moving at all, it would make sense if the 1950's movies were made reverse, that they learned from the mistakes of this. i don't see why this was made. since the movie get such positive vibes on this board i obviously just must have missed something, and if i ever check it out again, without just having seen the 1953 movie first, i probably will have to come away with a different opinion of this.



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the days are growing shorter,
you stay away longer,
reminiscent of the rich times,
as today i scrape nickels and dimes,
outside home walls drifting,
in the middle of nowhere clouds closing in,
and my souls darlin sunbeam left,
as you used to stay all days.

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