Lightoller's interpretation of Smith's "women and children first" command as "women and children only" is the primary reason the lifeboats lowered ~half full.
Has anyone counted the empty seats to see how many died that didn't need to? I'm not sure I want to know.
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Also, Lightoller had wanted to load more people at the water from the gangways. He sent two crew member below to open the doors, but they were never heard from afterwards.
shareOK, admit my subject bar was on the sensational side. However there IS a distinction between "women and children first" which was the order, and "women and children only" which was the execution.
Bearing in mind mitigating circumstances. Presumably to avoid panic the passengers were never made aware of the urgency. Most of the crew wasn't, though some knew empirically (likely the ones who survived).
I can well understand the reported reluctance of passengers to leave the apparent safety and relative comfort of the ship for the uncertainty of a 'flimsy' lifeboat on a black near-frozen sea.
I'd be quite trepidaceous about being dropped by rope from the boat deck to the water surface, unless I knew my survival was otherwise threatened. But then if I knew, and everyone else knew, we'd be fighting each other to board lifeboats and the operation wouldn't have gone any better.
Still, if willing men were standing there when no more willing women were and the lifeboat was launching half empty, that's the difference between "first" and "only", and that's the distinction Lightoller botched.
I'm not sure I agree. The real question ought to be how many women and children did NOT MAKE IT into lifeboats. As depicted in this and other movies and documentaries; a lot of people acted badly and crowded the lifeboat loading points. If they'd expedited getting women and children into boats quickly, then more of the other passengers could have made it onto boats. And I do think that FAMILIES (including men) should have been put on boats. And I'm saying that as a single man without a wife or children. In those days, losing the 'breadwinner' (almost invariably a man at that point in history) could be devastating to a family.
That said, lowering half-empty boats was incredibly foolish; but if men had been openly let on (and as depicted here and elsewhere, some were), chaos would probably have erupted (beyond what already existed). Can you imagine what would have happened today? The lawsuits would go on FOREVER!
There were bout 400 empty seats on all the life-boats.
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I don't buy any of the excuses for Lightoller's action. Even his excuses at the hearings were lame. Oh, how fascinating he wasn't a women or a children, but made it onto a boat. What a worm.
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The Lusitania went down in less than a half-hour, actually.
The person actually responsible for everything was the Captain. He was the one who gave the orders. He was the one who had the onus to make sure that his orders were being interpreted correctly.
The problem was that there seemed to be a lack of communication stemming from the bridge. Captain Smith didn't make it clear to his officers just how serious the situation was. All the surviving officers said that it wasn't until quite late into the event that they realized the ship was actually going to founder.
For all of J. Bruce Ismay's histrionics, at least he was trying to instill some urgency into the officers. (Senator William A. Smith, even noted that during the official inquiry). That was something Captain Smith didn't do. Smith seemed to really shut down psychologicallly after he learned how serious the situation was. He didn't go along the Boat Deck to make sure that his officers were carrying out his orders correctly. I'm certain that if Smith had seen that Lightoller was misinterpreting his orders, he would have said something and Lightoller would have changed his own orders.
One clearly anti-Lightoller poster here said that Lightoller made it into a boat himself. Actually, he didn't. He made no attempt to board a lifeboat himself. He stayed on the ship until almost the end. Once in the water, I can't see how anyone can blame him for trying to survive.
Obviously all the orders given by Smith and supposedly misinterpreted by Lightoller were conveyed by word of mouth. Smith couldn't call Lightoller on his iPhone every 20 minutes to make sure things were being done correctly. They couldn't text or tweet each other or any other officer. Of course too many boats were released without full capacity, but can anyone sitting in front of their PC's in a dry room with few distractions say they could've done any better than the Titanic officers? And NOT having all the information that has become available since 1912. I couldn't!
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Since Lightoller cost a great many people their lives by interpreting the orders as "women and children only", I don't think that he could be considered as much of a hero as Murdoch. He captained an overturned lifeboat, true. But he refused people into boats. Why don't people see the significance of that?
IMO, the only reason that Lightoller is held in as high of regard as he is is because of the film A Night to Remember. Had the main character been Lowe, he would be the most famous of the Titanic officers.
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Good point.
While I'm not going to open a can of worms with the suicide debate, I'll say that it's a shame that Murdoch will forever be known as the office who committed suicide rather than how he generally seems to have kept his composure throughout the ordeal. Even if he *did*. Whether he did or didn't is irrelevant to his heroism.
In defence of Lightoller, keep in mind that he wasn't fully aware of the ship's predicament, he stated in an radio interview in 1936 that during the later stages of the sinking, he realised the ship was going to sink before help arrived, and began filling his boats with more people, although this was still just women and children. Also keep in mind that Lightoller thought the ships davits couldn't hold fully laden lifeboats, so he didn't lower them laden. I know he sent off some lifeboats only half full, but remember that at first some passengers didn't want to get in, and he didn't think it was a serious situation. More men would have survived if Lightoller had taken Murdoch's approach and allowed men in, if women weren't waiting nearby, but remember that Murdoch knew the ship would sink before help arrived, while Lightoller didn't.
shareAgain, that shows lack of communication between Captain Smith and his subordinates. Captain Smith should have checked -or perhaps delegated Chief Officer Wilde to do so- to make sure his orders had been interpreted correctly.
He also should have instilled urgency in them by telling them exactly how serious the situation was, the need to fill boats to capacity and the fact that the davits could handle it.
I think Lightoller has a greater deal of fame for two reasons: one, he was the only one of the ship's three senior watch officers to survive the sinking (Pitman, Boxhall and Lowe were all rated as junior officers). And two, he actually went down with the ship and lived to tell about it.
In the past 2 years I've done the math of what weight the lifeboats could carry (versus 'number of seats' as they were rated) and determined that EVERYone willing to evacuate could have been saved. As long as panic didn't ensue AND the evacuation began immediately upon the assessment that the ship would unquestionably founder.
Who the hell was Lightoller to second guess the engineers as to what the davits could sustain? The boats were "tested with the weight of 70 men", at an average weight of 180# and surely the davits were rated for the same load.
But really, the line came down to the distinction between urgency and panic, and officers really trained to carry out an evacuation in the most possibly efficient manner. They weren't, and the line between urgency and panic is amorphous.
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Since Lightoller cost a great many people their lives by interpreting the orders as "women and children only", I don't think that he could be considered as much of a hero as Murdoch. He captained an overturned lifeboat, true. But he refused people into boats. Why don't people see the significance of that?
You know if there's really any blame for the lost lives I'd suggest placing it squarely on the shoulders of Capt Smith, the commander who was ultimately responsible for ALL lives on the boat. I believe when Lightoller is described as costing people their lives it is a misnomer because, realizing the situation, his overriding motive was to simply get people and if it was "women and children only" well so be it, (he did live in the Edwardian age didn't he?) off the ship. Looking at Capt Smith's command of the Titanic prior to the sinking shows a serious lack of good judgment as he speed the Titanic through iceberg fields at night no less. Arguably it is he rather than Lightoller who cost many people their lives on that voyage.
The "blame," if there is any, in my opinion goes to the Board of Trade. Ships had been growing much faster than the regulations and standard practices. With way ships were being operated, it was inevitable that one would eventually have a serious accident with severe consequences. Titanic was just the one that drew the short straw. Nearly every ship on the water, and certainly those belonging to the bigger lines operated in the same way, proceed normally until a threat presented itself. Up until the disaster, nothing had. Yes, they had received ice warnings, but that was not unusual, and Smith did take action by leaving standing orders with the bridge and the lookouts to keep a sharp watch for ice. He also left an order with Lightoller to get him immediately if anything "became doubtful." Smith is certainly responsible for what happens on the ship as Captain, but I don't go as far as to blame him for the disaster. Its unfair to put on him the mistakes that every captain did.
sharePerhaps it was better that Smith went down with the ship? I'd think it would have been very interesting to see him on the stand and I'd suggest he'd probably be pilloried by some in the press. I'm not an expert on naval law but I'd think the Captain of a ship is responsible for everybody and everything happening on that ship when he is in command. Really, captains when on the sea are far away from THEIR commanders. They are picked to have excellent judgment in the exercise of their command.
shareIn the 'making of' doc on the DVD the film's producer, William MacQuitty says that Lightoller misinterpreted the 'women and children first' as only those and that's why the lifeboats were not full. But he doesn't condemn Litgholler rather it shows how communication is never without interpretations that can skew the message and influence events.
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Of course, executive communication must be followed up that it has been interpreted as intended. Perhaps there wasn't time for that. Perhaps Smith went catatonic as in Cameron's version. I dunno, I wasn't born yet, neither were my parents.
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I am disappointed to read that some feel Lightholer might be responsible for not saving as many lives as possible. I've always held him in high regard, so want to think the best. However, he was the only senior officer that was able to live through this nightmare, and his account, which may or may not be entirely accurate, due to being employed by the White Star Line, is all we have. I'm sure he wanted to keep the job, so who knows. However, in times of probable death, with a boat partially filled, fill it with anyone you see!!
I am especially annoyed about the ultra rich arrogant Slr/Lady (yes, I know who they probably meant, names available on recounts, pictures, too, maybe many like them, though) leaving with just them, their maids, valets, some staff, and maybe a very few lucky ones in the right place - about 20 or so in all. Many dozens more could have been saved.
Was Bruce Ismay really the coward he has been protrayed in all the movies about this tragedy, or is that fiction? He did manage to get on a boat when "Women and Children First" was the standard of that bygone era. He was the heir to the owners. From a documentary I've seen several times, he did seem to have escaped fairly well during inquiries, but his dignity and reputation were in tatters.
It's true that Sir & Lady You Know Who left the Titanic in a lifeboat with 12 people in it although the capacity was 40. It's also true that Lightoller only allowed men in lifeboats if they were needed to row;those men were more likely to be crew than the older sons or husbands of the women already seated. What redeems Lightoller is that he refused to stop loading lifeboats even after the Captain told him it was every man for himself. He acted as a leader until he and the other survivors were taken aboard the Carpathia the next morning.
Lightoller did a decent job in difficult circumstances.
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The blame should certainly not be placed entirely on Lightoller's shoulders. There were a great number of mitigating circumstances that led to the events of that night.
Walter Lord, in his follow up, "The Night Lives On", says that during the lifeboat loading, some of the women in the boats were begging Lightoller to let their husbands in to row. Smith was around at that particular time, and when Lightoller said no, Smith backed him up 100%.
That novel was written in '85, close to 30 years after Lord originally wrote "A Night to Remember", so it's probably a pretty solid guess that the story is correct as he had a lot of time for further research. Based on that comment, and Smith's intervention, why would he change his stance on women and children first? He's under the assumption it's women and children only, and Smith has just backed him up. I would assume, in his shoes, that I was following Smith's orders.
The second thing to take under advisement is that Lightoller only oversaw the lowering of 5 lifeboats on his side of the ship. I must admit, until recently, I was always under the assumption that Murdoch had the starboard side and Lightoller the port side. Apparently, that wasn't the case.
And don't forget, while I'm not blaming him, it was Murdoch who oversaw the lowering of Boat #1, which had 12 people out of a capacity of 40, and of the 12, had 7 crewmen. If we're going to try to accuse Lightoller for additional loss of life for not letting men go, we have to afford the same to Murdoch.
The third factor was a lack of preparation. There were no lifeboat drills during the actual voyage. The one lifeboat drill consisted of a handful of crewmen lowering two lifeboats into the water, and paddling around while the ship was docked. With a full drill, things may have been different. Also, the officers were never informed of A. The actual capacity of each of the boats, or B. The fact that they could even be lowered somewhat overloaded and still have stayed afloat. It's been reported repeatedly that the officers lowering the boats were afraid of overcrowding and fears the davits would cave. Thus they feared to fill them.
And a fourth factor involves speed. I think part of the reason boats were sometimes going down half empty was because of a lack of communication and a fear the ship was going to sink before they could get all the boats lowered. Technically, it did. They had to try and float off the last two collapsibles because they couldn't transport them to the davits soon enough.
And as has been brought up before, The fifth problem involves lack of communication from the bridge. Smith ordered the boats lowered Lightoller started, then Chief Officer Wilde told him not to. He went back to the bridge, again got confirmation to lower from Smith, and started lowering. It's also painfully obvious the officers were under-informed. 4th Officer Boxhall wasn't informed the ship was sinking until 1:15, one hour and 35 minutes after striking the iceberg.
And there's the dreaded 6th factor. Captain Smith didn't issue a general call for evacuation. Partly because, I'm sure, he didn't want a panic, but again, another reason lifeboats weren't going down filled, at the beginning, most definitely, was that no one knew the ship was going to sink, and when faced with the opportunity of a warm ship or a boat in the cold in the middle of the dark ocean, they chose the ship. John Jacob Astor is famously quoted as saying, "We are safer here than in that little boat."
Did Lightoller make some mistakes? Sure. Anyone in his position would have. Captain Smith was a 42-year veteran of the sea, and he made a great many more mistakes than Lightoller. A lot of things that could go wrong did on that particular night. Lightoller certainly shouldn't be blamed more than anyone else, and frankly, I think he did pretty damn well under the circumstances.
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I think that dubious honor goes not to any Titanic crew member but to the captain of the SS Californian (only a few miles away from the Titanic), who could have helped to save several hundred lives had he not ignored the Titanic's distress calls and rockets.
shareCaptain Smith certainly seemed to have not acted as he should have during the sinking.
Daniel Allen Butler, in his book Unsinkable, described how right after the collision, but before getting the verdict from Andrews, Smith was decisive and take-charge. After Andrews told him that the ship would sink, Smith seemed to have retreated into himself and wasn't on top of things like a good captain should have been -i.e. Lightoller had to come and ask him if he should start sending the boats off rather than Smith coming to Lightoller and telling him to do so, etc.
Butler thought that Smith was psychologically overwhelmed at what was happening. He was aware that -unless some ship got there in time- over half the people on board would die and he was solely responsible. In his whole career, Captain Smith had never had any sort of major incident at sea and now he was facing the biggest disaster ever. Butler thought he was overloaded and more or less shut down.
As a result, his orders were left to interpretation with Murdoch and Lightoller each taking them in a different way.
Lightoller most likely erred in his interpretation of Smith's orders. However, I think he did his best under the circumstances. As well, as he never tries to leave in a boat himself he clearly was ready to go down with the ship himself if it came to that.
Captain Lord, of the Californian, was the person who was the real villain of the tragedy. He didn't even bother to wake up his wireless operator and later doctored his ship's log to remove any mention of seeing lights or rockets during the night of April 14th/15th.