MovieChat Forums > The Naked and the Dead (1958) Discussion > Early liberal libel that the American mi...

Early liberal libel that the American military is essentially fascist.

posted 15 years ago by MrPie7
19 replies | jump to latest

While Raymon Massey does an excellent job of portraying General Cummings as a neo-Nazi, his rant about power and control is an early manifestation of the disingenuous depiction of the military, (Especially the AMERICAN military) as being essentially totalitarian focused and anti-democratic. This trend gathered momentum in films like "Dr. Strangelove" and "Catch 22" and continued thru to "JFK" and "THE Stand". Marvel is keeping this theme alive in the contemporary films "The Incredible Hulk" and Ironman". It has become a cliche that whenever anything bad happens in a film it is the result of an evil government/military conspiracy. Liberals have helped make the US armed forces an international boogey-man. This, of course, helpfully contributes to American efforts to create stability in an insane world full of dictators, terrorists and religious fanatics.

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[–] tarpilot 14 years ago

Erm, the American military hardly needed any help in being portrayed as international boogeymen. They managed that rather well all on their own.

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[–] MrPie7 14 years ago

Yes, that's right. The Marines just attack wherever and whenever they please. They routinely invade the homes of civilians, round up the "troublemakers" and execute them on the street corner. They never show up to distribute food in international hellholes like HAITI, to disdtribute food and medicine like the Iranians and Russians and Chinese do. Nope. A thoughroughly bad lot, completely beyond civilian control.

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[–] plumlogan 14 years ago

Are you under the impression that the U.S. military is a democracy?

"Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money...or cocaine!"

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[–] MrPie7 14 years ago

Absolutely NOT. It IS however, the enforcement branch of the most successful democracy in history. The film implied that it was a repository of fascists and warmongers who hoped to overthrow the lawful civilian authorities. Since the US military has not EVER come CLOSE to a coup or revolt in nearly 250 years, I'd say the film's insinuations were base and unfounded canards. Downright leftist paranoia. Maybe the author, Norman Mailer, should give up worrying about the "threat" of a military take over, and stick to what he does BEST: hiring expensive lawyers to get incarcerated murderers who have a smattering of literary talent freed, so they can KILL AGAIN!!! Didn't know about that didja?

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[–] nickm2 14 years ago

Actually Pie, I always thought Mailer was just another egotistical quasi-commie with anger management issues;

I have to quote 'The Savage' RE: Mailer: "The Naked Red is Dead"; bugger him!

NM

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[–] plumlogan 14 years ago

Are you asking if you know about it, or saying you don't know about it, and incorrectly using a question mark?

"Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money...or cocaine!"

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[–] Jefbecco-1 14 years ago

I did 14 years in the U.S. Army (1986 - 2000). It isn't a charm school and it does have it's share of a******s. Many of the folks who serve aren't really folks you might want to socialize with, but they're doing a difficult job that many Americans don't want anything to do with. Historically soldiers (including many officers) have come from the less fortunate parts of society. I was in the National Guard until 1992 when the economy drove me into the Regular Army. Dosen't change the fact that it's a tough job and many soldiers know that there are many in our country who look down on them.

Norman Mailer was drafted after completing college and he served as a cook with the 112th Cavalry in the Phillipines during WW2. He wasn't an infrantryman nor was he ever with a recon platoon or what was known as an I & S Platoon back then.

Norman Mailer was a snob and in my opinion he was pissed about being drafted. I also suspect that he knew he had a "relatively" safe job in the war and in some weird way resented the men who were way out in front.So he attacked the Army and the soldiers in his book. Typical of him. I know soldiers and many of them aren't posterchildren for the PC movement but they aren't animals.

The interesting thing is in his later years he actually took to bragging about his war service. Like he was some type of modern day Hemmingway. He was very careful about not actually saying he was in combat. More insinuations. Typical.

For the record. I never saw combat. I was in the signal corp and military intelligence and I was glad I never saw combat. I served honorably and without distinction. Which makes me despise Mailer even more. He was a hypocrite.

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[–] SipteaHighTea 12 years ago

Nowadays, soldiers are looked down upon by even the Republican Party and many business people. Until the year 2000, the American soldier was revered by the population and business people look to them as good, reliable employee, and politicans bend over hands and kneels to get their votes.

When you look at the military, it was used as a tool for corporations. Smedley Butler stated that his beloved Marine Corp was used as to protect and advance American corporations all over the world particulary in Latin America.

Many soldiers have a bad snob attitudes of looking down upon civilians and complain about the moral decay of America when many of them had no clean moral standards before, during, and after they left the military. As a matter of fact, they contribute greatly to the moral decline of American society. Furthermore, many of them have no respect for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights when they took an oath to defend the Constitution and later when they became police officers.

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[–] Jefbecco-1 12 years ago

Nowadays, soldiers are looked down upon by even the Republican Party and many business people. Until the year 2000, the American soldier was revered by the population and business people look to them as good, reliable employee, and politicans bend over hands and kneels to get their votes.

Why the year 2000? And why do you think it changed in 2000?

Many soldiers have a bad snob attitudes of looking down upon civilians and complain about the moral decay of America when many of them had no clean moral standards before, during, and after they left the military. As a matter of fact, they contribute greatly to the moral decline of American society. Furthermore, many of them have no respect for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights when they took an oath to defend the Constitution and later when they became police officers.

I respected the Constitution before I joined the Army and I still respect it as a veteran and as a police officer. So while I think it's cute that you have the sand to speak for millions of men and women you can't speak for me.

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[–] MrPie7 14 years ago

Asking a question because I know all about him getting a convicted murderer freed who killed again almost the day he was released. Thanx Norm!

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[–] davidmcgmiller 7 years ago

Mr. Pie, you know you've lost it when you start seeing leftist conspiracies in '50s war movies. Simpleton.

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[–] dannieboy20906 7 years ago

Mr. Pie is not alleging a leftist conspiracy. He is stating that Mr. Mailer is an idiot leftist who hates the military and he's absolutely right, at least in my opinion (and I am not at all humble in expressing my opinion).

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[–] JimB-4 11 years ago

Norman Mailer stopped caring what anyone thought of him when he died in 2007. So he won't be sticking to anything he does best or worst anymore. For the record, I was a Marine grunt in Vietnam, and Mailer had it pretty well nailed.

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[–] diagoro (483) a year ago

According to my grandfather, who was an officer in the navy during the early 60s, he said that we came extremely close to something like this actually happening. That's all he would say, refused to share any details. He was also the most honest person I've known, never knew him to fabricate of even exaggerate, just straight honest.

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[–] mike-848 13 years ago

Eisenhower himself in one of his last speeches warned Americans about the rise of the Military Industrial complex.

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[–] moewadle 11 years ago

I get so tired of hearing all this political BS that is voiced here. I, for one, am not interested. It really is not about the film or the quality of it. It is a political rant that you are voicing, MrPie7. And why is it that it seems all of the political rants are against the so-called "Liberals." It appears to me that this one is typical of these rants and is so extreme it sounds like it is coming from someone who is sick with paranoia. Leave the political opinions at home.

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[–] dannieboy20906 7 years ago

Any movie listed in IMDB that presents the American military positively is attacked by multiple viewers as "pro-war propaganda." I don't see any reason that a movie that is grossly anti-American military should not be called out as such by a poster.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[–] willjohn 10 years ago

Grow up.

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[–] willjohn 9 years ago

You are living proof that John Stuart Mill was right when he said "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are Conservatives."

Norman Mailer served in the Pacific during World War II and wrote from experience.

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