MovieChat Forums > Pal Joey (1957) Discussion > Joey Evans is despicable

Joey Evans is despicable

posted 16 years ago by heyteegs
24 replies | jump to latest

First time I've seen this musical in any form but I am completely turned off by Joey. He is not charming, handsome, or funny as imdb says. He feeds coffee and donuts to a dog. He's not nice to anyone, especially women but also not his piano player friend either. Turns me off. (The only redeeming value so far is Rita Hayworth's ZIP. Fun number.) I'll finish watching the movie but only because I'm hoping his character gets his comeuppance in the end. I'm curious why people like this movie with a central character so unappealing.

UPDATE: Nope. No redemption. He treated Linda like crap when she came to him at the end and offered marriage. OK, I did get the impression that he loved her but this guy needs major therapy. I have read that the movie is not very much like the original stage play so it might be interesting to see a production of that to compare. But so far the Pal Joey reputation (aside from the songs which I know many of were not written for the musical) is lost on me.

[–] Oliver_Alla 16 years ago

You're right. Joey stinks.

[–] Harold_Robbins 16 years ago

He's not supposed to be a nice guy: he's a heel and a conniver - in fact, several of the characters in PAL JOEY aren't "nice" at all (I'm referring mainly to the original stage version) - PAL JOEY was a very "adult" musical in 1940, too much so for some people's taste, though when it was revived in 1952 many of those same people did a complete turnaround and loved it - Broadway and its audiences had grown up during that decade-plus, which included World War Two. Then Hollywood and Sinatra got their hands on it.

"Stone-cold sober I find myself absolutely fascinating!"---Katharine Hepburn

[–] dalbrech 16 years ago

Joey Evans is supposed to stink.
He is supposed to be a heel.
He is a LOT more despicable in the stage version.

I'll Teach You To Laugh At Something's That's Funny
Homer Simpson

[–] PenTheater 16 years ago

So what? The ladies make this movie.

[–] mickieggie 16 years ago

According to the book Musical Theater: An Appreciation by Alyson McLamore
(it was a textbook we used in school), people didn't like the musical's "hero" because of his despicable, amoral behavior (which by the way was 1st played by Gene Kelly onstage). The only redeeming thing about the musical was the extraordinary and beautiful music by Rodgers and Hart, and THAT was the saving grace of this musical, not the subject of it.

That is the reason why this musical is a staple in musical theater. Hope that helps...

[–] Zipper69 16 years ago

This proves once again how instinctive Mr Sinatra was in choosing his parts and accepting the characterisation as written.
With his innate charm and charisma it would have been easy for him to gain and audience's sympathy by making Joey a flawed but essentially decent guy. He resisted that easy out and instead created a Joey that was selfish, venal and of doubtful morals.
Even those final moments of verbal sparring with Novak, although they show a glimmer of a "better person" certainly don't deny his basic persona.

Don't touch that!
Why Not?
It does very bad things...

[–] vanillainflux 14 years ago

Exactly, he's a sort of 'anti hero' who is supposed to use and abuse everyone to get what he wants. Miss English provides the perfect antithesis to put his values and way of life into question. I also think Frank did a great job, Joey comes off as a total egoist.

Want to read a book with the most awful characters ever thought of? I just finished reading Wuthering Heights. Wow Catherine and Heathcliff were awful (literary devices of course but still..)

it's a dirty world Reich, say what you want

[–] scotbpens 15 years ago

"He feeds coffee and donuts to a dog."

And you don't find that funny? Or can you only see some guy mistreating an animal? God help us, call the SPCA!

LIGHTEN UP. Feeding coffee and donuts to a dog is FUNNY!

All the universe . . . or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?

[–] Tashtago 12 years ago

Great performance by Sinatra. But the success he has with women while treating them terrribly, not so appealing. The fault is in the script though not with Sinatra. And although Joey might have been despicable , Sinatra's singing makes up for it. If nothing else Joey/Sinatra is a great performer! It's Frank Sinatra playing a cad not Tony Randall playing a cad.

[–] viaggio1 11 years ago

I've got to agree w/ Tashtago and others on this board --- Sinatra nails the singing --- he's really at the top of his game in this movie.

But I was seriously getting vertigo watching his character change from charmer to heel, from romantic to venal, and back again !

"J'ai l'oeil AMÉRICAIN !"

[–] johnmiller (3347) 6 years ago

Lots of women go for men that treat them like garbage.

[–] tlburns1 12 years ago

It's a bagel, actually.

[–] mel2000 (244) 6 years ago

"He feeds coffee and donuts to a dog."

And you don't find that funny?

I thought it gave the impression that Joey didn't care for anything but himself. Especially given his reluctance to even take ownership of it as a pet. He feeds the dog what he eats because he's too indifferent about the dog to take the time to shop for its food.

[–] pierce-mn1 11 years ago

Sinatra is a little too nice in this, but for the movies that's okay. I saw it in New York a few years ago, with Stockard Channing as Vera. She has no lagato, so her singing wasn't great. The Joey was a replacement. He was far too young for the role. Joey should have some mileage on him, and should be about 40. This guy was in his 20s and so gay it was hard to buy him. The new libretto was godawful, making Linda English, basically, a thankless role and with the exception of Martha Plimpton as Gladys Bumps, the whole thing was awful.

The story is set in Chicago, so San Francisco is a questionable setting. Still, this is as good as we're going to get, I suppose. A remake with Hugh Jackman would be terrific, but I doubt that will happen. Let's enjoy it for what we have.

[–] gcarras (2727) 6 years ago

agreed.

[–] Oak Owl 11 years ago

Yep. The character is a creep. And really, come on, talk about "suspending disbelief" ... to imagine that a woman who looked like Kim Novak - OR Rita Hayworth - would bother with a scrawny little dude like that? Seriously? No. No. No. They could do better. I could imagine a young Gene Kelly as a possibility: at least he's got a nice body.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] marktayloruk 10 years ago

Joey lot nastier in stage show and more so in original book.Should have been remade in late 60s with Elvis Presley and the full unbowdlerised original script.

[–] marktayloruk (2378) 7 months ago

Look at Frank's real love life!

[–] eelb53 10 years ago

Joey's character flaws are the main point of the show. Sinatra plays it perfectly.

[–] rudykawa 9 years ago

It´s a movie that may explain womens revolution in decade later.
Was a very misoginist character portrayed as a hero with happy ending. Remembering that between 40´s and the 60´s in hollywood the Hay´s code was on and most big movies wouldn´t be allowed to come out if the bad guys didn't have a bad ending and the good guys a happy ending.
So the ending shows a lot of what was the thoughts of thoses times.

[–] greenbudgie 9 years ago

Joey is one of the most unsympathetic lead character in musicals. I would liked to have seen someone play it a bit more cheekily. But nobody is going to be able to sing 'The Lady Is A Tramp' to Rita Hayworth that Frank Sinatra does.