Reagan

All good points, for sure. General Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry et al had some good things to say about the need to be armed, good governance... slavery... in the 18th century

Their position concerning an armed populace had not a damned thing to do with slavery. It had everything to do with the people having the ability overthrow their government and start anew when said government no long serves the people but rather starts forcing the people to serve the government.

It is written into our very declaration of independence from Britain....

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I do like the one about Ben Franklin talking to his fellow conspirators risking all for independence. His 'gentlemen, we must all hang together on this or we shall surely all hang together' is one of my favourites.

For being one of your favorites, you could at the least do it the service of getting it right.

We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Anecdotally claimed to have been said by Dr Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence... may possibly be misattributed to him, as there are a few other claimed sources of the quote, both prior to and after that date.

It's a fascinating argument. One side is clearly in the right and there is no way they will give up their 'rights'. And the other side just watches the rising death toll in bewilderment

It is not the law abiding citizen holding to their right to own arms that is causing the "rising death toll". The vast majority of those murders creating this " rising death toll" are the result of those who are not allowed weapons and done with weapons purchased illegally by current law. Quite frankly... your "argument" is becoming very insulting.

this is the crux of my argument... those who are happy to have a firearm in their home for that time they will get to use it on an intruder...

And now you are absolutely being an insulting fraking a$$hole.
None of us who own a firearm for self defense are happy to use it on an intruder. We do not look forward to a time that "we get to use it" on an intruder.
We would be quite pleased to never ever need to use it for it's intended purpose.

But if the times comes that you do need it, better to have it and never need it, than to need it and not have it.

The risks of injury/death are significantly increased, but weighing that risk up against a hypothetical, are happy with the risk.

No. Another bullsh!t Liberal and false argument. The only firearm owners at any "increased risk" are the dumba$$es that fail to properly take care of and learn how to properly handle. No different than the care, handling and use of any other potentially dangerous tool. Mowing the yard in bare feet for example. Using power tools without eye protection. Quite often a "Negligent Discharge" (which is what you are talking about) is the result of some dumb sh!t playing around with the damned thing against all common sense of a proper gun owner. But then again... with the rare exception of an equipment failure, blown tire... failed brakes...etc... 99.9% of all car crashes are the result of a driver being stupid or inattentive. But I see no screaming hissy fit to ban all motor vehicles.
(only those that run one oil)

Truthfully... you "points" are based on falsehoods, though they are perfectly aligned with the liberal position. But that's to be expected of liberal positions. all lies and falsehoods.





I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Oh, and Queensland's XXXX beer (yes, that's its name... 4ex. Camel's pi55 to us in other states) was 'Better than the beers we have in the US' said one sailor. God, what do you guy's brew over there??

1) said ONE sailor.

2) Often what a person thinks is better is merely... different. Probably the kids first time in a foreign port fresh from a Kansas farm. Here in the US I've had beers that are excellent, and beers that are horse piss. I've also had beers from other countries that are excellent and some that are horse piss.

3) Personal taste. One man's horse piss is another man's brew of choice.






I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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