During the football game the father gets mad because the team he's rooting for kicks the ball away on 2nd down. My question is why WOULD they kick it away on 2nd down? Is this just a script error or did teams really do that half a century ago?
Um, and just in case any international folk read this: I'm talking about futbol americano.. though I doubt Hatful of Rain gets a lot of play in other countries (thank you TCM!)
Maybe it was 2nd and 35, or some impossible to make yardage. If you have no faith in your offense, punt, try to pin your opponents back, and hold them. Nowadays, I doubt any college or pro coach would give away a third down, no matter WHAT the yardage.
shareYeah maybe.. but I've still never seen it happen bc at least you'd try to pick up a few yards to shorten the field for your punter. Thanks for the reply!
shareI believe that I have seen a punt on third down ... at least it would not sirprise me.
share(American) football had more of a kicking game in the '50s, and it would not have been unlikely.
But I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.
It's an interesting question. I've watched this scene a few times and can't figure out what the strategy is or who the father is rooting for. The first shot is of the scoreboard and it shows a little more than 2 minutes remaining and the score is Giants 28, Braves 30. The next shot shows the white team kicking off and the ball is returned to the 40 yard line or so by the black team. The father is talking, then is shocked at what he is seeing on the field. Cut to field which shows the black team in punt formation. With the score that close and with that much time left in the game, there would be no strategic reason to give the ball away. If you are the team that is up 30-28, you want to hold on to the ball and run out the clock, and that should be easy to do since the game is almost over. If you are the team that is losing by 2 points, you need to move the ball and keep control. Giving the ball up at this point in the game is completely illogical.
The father yells at the black team for punting on second down. Then he is upset a moment later when the player in white drops the ball. None of the football action makes sense in terms of the dialogue. It was probably the editor splicing together stock football footage with the dialogue and trying to make something fit. It just doesn't fit at all.
There are circumstances where a team would punt on first, second or third down. If you are locked in a defensive battle and neither team is gaining offensive yards, and if you have a quarterback who can kick, and if the defensive team doesn't have anyone deep... heck ya, fire away. You give up the ball, but you've moved the ball 50 yards downfield and taken away the other teams ability to get return yardage.
In Soviet Russia, ball punts YOU!!!!
shareTeams can and do punt before 4th down for a variety of reasons, but mainly it is because it gives them a strategic advantage that exceeds what they could reasonably expect to get by maintaining possession of the ball and trying a few more plays. For example, if the weather conditions are really bad, and their offensive efforts just aren't cutting it, it might make more sense for the offensive side to punt it away and let the other team take over, pinned down far back in their own territory. Also, a punt on the second down is probably a "quick kick" also known as a pooch kick - likely done by the quarterback - done in such a way that it catches the defensive team off guard, since they're not expecting a punt. As such, the defensive team doesn't have a receiver back down field to receive that punt, because all their players are lined up normally. If the punter does his job well, he can put the ball way back in the defensive team's back field, which forces them to resume play at a less than desirable field position.
And don't assume that punting on second down is all that extraordinary: there are records of games played in extremely snowy weather conditions where teams in possession of the ball actually punted on first down. Read about the "Snow Bowl" game of 1950 between Michigan and Ohio State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Ortmann#The_Snow_Bowl This explains pretty clearly why a team would chose to give up the ball early and punt it away, without bothering to play all four downs.
I noticed in the football segment they showed on the TV in "Hatful of Rain" that the game was being played in very muddy, winter-like weather conditions, so the above reasons for punting before 4th down would apply to that game and actually make sense.
Just a guess, but there's an anachronism in the NFL called the free kick. Basically, the QB can free kick it through the uprights for one point. I'd guess that they QB was attempting the free kick, hoping to sneak a point in on the defense when the offense was stalled.
The last free kick happened about 10 years by Doug Flutie when he was a backup for the Patriots.
Amy: I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!