MovieChat Forums > Funny Face (1957) Discussion > An American in Paris = 7.6, FF=7.0?

An American in Paris = 7.6, FF=7.0?


I don't understand IMDB users. I mean, I just watched AAIP, and it was sooo boring: Leslie Caron doesn't entertain (edit: I meant in this particular movie, because I really like her performance in "Father Goose"), I can't watch Gene Kelly without missing Donald O'Connor's jokes, the plot was way too simple and predictable, and so slowly developed.
In the other hand, we have this nice Cinderella story, with Mr. genius Astaire singing/dancing with Miss adorable Hepburn, plus the hilarious Kay Thompson, the marvelous Avedon style, and of course Givenchy clothes.

Both in Paris, both had Gershwin's music, but FF get more out of them...just compare the "'S Wonderful" versions.

So, the ratings are just...wrong :P
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I rated "Funny Face" at a 7, but at this point after rewatching it once I would have to say maybe a 6. "An American in Paris" I would rate a 10/10. I would rate it a 20/10 if I could.

"Leslie Caron doesn't entertain,"

that's a non-statement. She entertains me just fine. She's not quite as good in this movie as she was in "Gigi", but this was her first film and she did quite well all things considered.

"I can't watch Gene Kelly without missing Donald O'Connor's jokes,"

I guess I can only conclude then that the only Gene Kelly movie that you can watch is "Singin' in the Rain", because as far as I know that's the only one with Donald O'Connor. "The Pirate", "It's Always Fair Weather", "Me and My Gal", you apparently won't like any of those films either. If you want your daily dose of Donald O'Connor, there's about 20 Francis the Talking Mule movies that I could turn you on to. As far as I'm concerned, the scene in "AIP" with Oscar Levant smoking two cigarettes and trying to drink a coffee at the same time while listening to Kelly and Geutary talk about the same woman they're both in love with is much funnier than any of O'Connor's clowning. O'Connor is funny, but in a very simple and straightforward vaudeville kind of way. He's no more sophisticated than the Three Stooges. Levant is a totally different and much more mature and intelligent brand of sardonic wit.

"the plot was way too simple and predictable, and so slowly developed."

The plot is superficially simple, but it's very complex compared to "Funny Face" if you dig just a bit beneath the surface.

"In the other hand, we have this nice Cinderella story, with Mr. genius Astaire singing/dancing with Miss adorable Hepburn, plus the hilarious Kay Thompson, the marvelous Avedon style, and of course Givenchy clothes."

I wouldn't know the first thing about the clothes that people are wearing in the movies, that's definitely not my area of expertise. Cinderella stories are a dime a dozen and as stupid as they come. This was a very old fashioined movie for 1957, as even its fans must admit. The only reason all the "beatniks" and modern types were included in the film at all was to subject them to ridicule.

I mean this is just hard to believe -- you think the plot of "AIP" is simple, but you heap praise on a "nice Cinderella story"? What does "Funny Face" have to say about people, about women and men and their relationships? Absolutely nothing. It's just a wish fulfillment fantasy, which is fine in its own right but in no way is it comparable to something as complex as "AIP." In "AIP", you have three separate romances going on -- Jerry (Kelly) and Lise (Caron), Jerry and Milo (Nina Foch), and Henri (Guetary) and Lise. The first of these is depicted as the only genuine love affair, but it's almost prevented from reaching fruition because of the complication of the other two romances. In real life, Jerry/Milo and Henri/Lise are the more natural or cynical pairings. The first is a marriage of convenience, which often happens in real life, and the latter is a marriage of idealism, where one partner looks up to the other while the other feels protective of the first and these emotions are mistaken for love. The resolution of the conflict involves a little bit of selflessness on Jerry's part and a little bit of selfishness on Lise's part. I fail to see how the ideas and emotions underlying this whole dynamic are simple or straightforward, although they might seem that way on first glance.

"Both in Paris, both had Gershwin's music, but FF get more out of them...just compare the "'S Wonderful" versions."

Unfortunately Minnelli's film wasn't made in Paris, a fault which he corrected with "Gigi." But yes the setting is similar, and they both use some Gershwin music, which only goes far enough to demonstrate that "FF" is an imitation of "AIP" just as Donen's "Charade" is an imitation of Hitchcock's "To Catch a Thief." "AIP" is 100% Gershwin, while "FF" is about 50% Gershwin at best, and not Gershwin's best music for the most part. "FF" used pretty much exclusively Gershwin songs that were standards, while Minnelli used a few standards but mostly surprising selections that hadn't been heard in years like "By Strauss." Minnelli's selections are fresh where Donen's are stale, and Donen felt the need to supplement the score with lame songs by Roger Edens.

"So, the ratings are just...wrong :P"

It would be more true to say that you severely need to rewatch "An American in Paris."

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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Thanks for your reply.

The Bride: Where's Bill?

Juno MacGuff: I'm pregnant

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you're welcome. Reading back through it, it seems like I was kind of harsh on you. Please feel free to interpret that as a reflection of my feelings about the movies and not anything personal towards you. If you don't like Gene Kelly movies in general, that hardly makes you unique. You have plenty of good company. He's a big time ham. I think he's fun most of the time, but I can see how some of his mannerisms become insufferable. "An American in Paris" is the kind of movie that makes up for his faults for me. I will bear no insult to the lovely Miss Caron however! :)

Peace

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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funkyfry, I won't go deeply into your post as I am a great fan of Funny Face (including the script, which I think you misinterpret) and not much of a fan of American in Paris, and you have dealt so harshly with Funny Face (and so often) that my instinct instead is to just sit in the corner and protect it from you. However, I do want to briefly address the matter of the scores.

An American in Paris is the sort of songbook musical that Arthur Freed did a few times, with the selections of songs limited only by Ira's proscriptions (and whatever rights controls might have applied at the time). The song choices are generally commendable (though somewhat arbitrary as regards the story), especially the resurrection of "Love Is Here to Stay," which did not become the widely beloved standard it is today until this film revived it.

The score of Funny Face, which you mischaracterize as "pretty much exclusively Gershwin songs that were standards," is not freely selected from across the span of the Gershwins' career but actually follows the score of the 1927 stage version of Funny Face (even though the show's script is completely abandoned as a source in favor of Leonard Gershe's unproduced play Wedding Day). The songs "Funny Face," "'S Wonderful," "Let's Kiss and Make Up" and "He Loves and She Loves" are all from the Broadway score, and "How Long Has This Been Going On?" was written for the Broadway show but cut before opening. So "Clap Yo' Hands" is the only Gershwin song interpolated from another show. I doubt you'd find anyone in 1957 who would have called "Let's Kiss and Make Up" and "He Loves and She Loves" standards, and I don't think that "How Long Has This Been Going On" had ever been used in a film before. Further, since Funny Face is not a "songbook" film, I don't think it had a responsibility to stick to a purely Gershwin program, so I don't have a problem with the addition of three plot-specific songs by other hands.


"Please! You're not at home!"

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Fair enough, although I'd like to know what's wrong with my interpretation of the script. I've seen the movie twice and it still seems awfully reactionary to me. I suppose I do spend a lot of time here arguing about it, but I usually only check in every 6 months or so on this board.

You have some interesting information about the score. I was aware that a bunch of the songs were from "Funny Face", but I hadn't heard or connected the fact that "How Long Has This Been Going On?" was written for the original show. I'll take your word on that one. I think "He Loves and She Loves" was considered a classic, if not a standard. It's hard to do a big band interpretation of the song since it's really leaning towards Ira's lyrics as opposed to George's music. Every Gershwin show has at least a couple songs that are like that.

"Further, since Funny Face is not a "songbook" film, I don't think it had a responsibility to stick to a purely Gershwin program, so I don't have a problem with the addition of three plot-specific songs by other hands."

If it's not a songbook film, then it's a book musical and it should have stuck closer to the original "Funny Face" in score if not in story. It's disconcerting to have Roger Edens songs stuck in the midst of Gershwin songs. Some of the "Mick 'n Judy" movies have the same problems, and Edens is the man responsible in both cases. In my opinion Edens is a fantastic lyricist but his music usually lacks distinction. He's like a second-rate Berlin or Porter, and his tunes seem all the weaker when juxtaposed with Gershwin classics. "On How to Be Lovely", that's just a horrible song and the whole attitude and style of it is patronizing. Now what's brilliant about the song selections for "An American in Paris" is how they took all these songs from different shows and made them actually work with the new plot. It's more closely integrated than a lot of film scores that were actually written for film. But with "Funny Face" they had the benefit of an existing story which was thrown out the window. That in itself I don't have a huge problem with I suppose, but it should have been a benefit for them because at least the songs were written with the same characters in mind. But they don't really take advantage of that and to me the songs in the movie don't seem to fit nearly as well as the ones in Minnelli's film.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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Happily, a note I posted on this board a few years ago is still here:

I understand the charges of sexism and anti-intellectualism levelled against this movie. After all, Dick proves to Jo that the great philosopher Flostre "is about as interested in your mind as I am" (i.e., not at all). But Dick's redemption and the subsequent happy ending are only made possible when the anti-intellectuals Dick and Maggie actually grasp Flostre's philosophy of "empathicalism" and put it into practice. ("She put herself in your place, so if you put yourself in her place, you're bound to run into each other in somebody's place!") It's of course rather silly, in the musical-comedy tradition, but the script does bring about a humbling of both Dick and Jo (both of whom have some selfish behavior to answer for).
On that same thread, there are good points about the presence of the successful, powerful career woman Maggie and the strong-willed, independent Jo more than balancing Dick's typical 1950s sexism. As much as I can identify with Jo as the intellectual-among-philistines, I resist seeing her as Dick and Maggie's victim since she has her character flaws as well.

As to the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree. I have to think very hard to recall what songs were used in AAIP because I find the choices for the most part arbitrary and don't see how they "actually work" with the movie's plot, which I have always found rather generic and pointless. I also have a problem with the singing voices heard in the movie, but I've addressed that in a post on the AAIP board that you are welcome to seek out.

Regarding the origin of "How Long Has This Been Going On," you don't have to take my word for it (although I hope that my credibility can be trusted in the area of musical theater), you can Google the song title and phrases such as "originally written for" and you will come up with several references, e.g., http://homepage2.nifty.com/jazzsong/ampop_list.html.





"Please! You're not at home!"

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[deleted]

Actually, I thought the opposite with these movies: I couldn't stand Funny Face, for some reason. Maybe it just moved too slow for me, but I thought it was a little boring. In fact, in lieu of you saying you wanted Donald O'Connor, I wanted Ginger Rogers!

I loved American in Paris though, but I can understand why people don't like it. I love me some Gene Kelly though; he is the reason I got into older movies.

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You are so right,ck. Just wrote a little comment on the AAIP board comparing the 2 before seeing your comment here. It is on the thread by miriamwebster re AAIP winning best picture. How did that ever happen?

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DryToast: Thank you very much for your info and opinion. I had no idea how the music was selected for this movie.

marshjes:thanks for your reply. Well, of course Ginger and Fred were a cool-terrific-super-dooper screen couple, and I wish they had done more (!!!) movies together; but that way we woulnd't have had Audrey's dance sequences. I mean, they're great, especially Basal Metabolism and On how to be lovely :) And lol, you got into classics because of Gene; my reason was Audrey :)

morningsidemary: Lol, just checked your message in the other board. And the movie boards you've participated: I mean Grey Gardens, Billy Elliot and Miss Pettigrew are some of the "modern" movies I like. So we have similar tastes :)

Anyway, now AAIP is rated 7.3 and FF 7.0 :P

The Bride: Where's Bill?

Juno MacGuff: I'm pregnant

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i don't really take the imdb ratings seriously since some people just have awful taste in films and others pay tribute to a film more than it should it be praised.

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I think An American in Paris is the better film, much more of an appealing classic musical. I'd never seen Funny Face until yesterday but it didn't work for me at all. I didn't buy the Astaire/Hepburn relationship and I thought Hepburn was a bit miscast to be honest. Her musical performances weren't up to par. Even Astaire didn't come across that well and he's usually great in everything. It wasn't as light and frothy as I expected and there was a bit of a mean spirit running through the whole thing.

By contrast, the Gene Kelly / Leslie Caron relationship is s'wonderful. It's such a feel good film. The impeccable design compliments the film rather than trying to stand out by itself. There are so many great numbers (Our Love is Here to Stay, Stairway to Paradise, S'Wonderful, I Got Rhythm).

I'd give FF 6/10 at best and An American in Paris 9/10

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I think that FF is very cute and I'd give it a 7 or 8. AAIP is magnificent and it's a 10 in my book. As for Gene Kelly, he's always a 10!

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I strenuously disagree with the assertion An American in Paris is a boring film. Au contraire. It bustles with energy. The narrative might be a simple one, but the romance that develops between Jerry (Kelly) and Lise (Leslie) is believable, and compelling. And, the dance numbers are sensational. Seeing Leslie Caron glide between one style of dance to another in her opening routine is a joy to watch.

I've never been bored when watching Gene Kelly. Never. And, quite honestly, I am perplexed that anybody else could be. I think An American in Paris is grossly underappreciated by those who have rated it on imdb - it wouldn't be the first time. I don't know if it's because men still attach some stigma to musicals, and dancing (it's not "manly"). Well, I'm secure in my sexuality as any other man, and I love musicals, and dancing, and don't give a rat's a__ what other people think. Great art is great art, and when you combine the talents of Vincente Millelli, Arthur Freed, Gene Kelly, Leslie Caron, and the Gershwin brothers -- the end result can't fail.

Never for the sake of peace and quiet deny your convictions-Dag Hammarskjold

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