MovieChat Forums > Leave It to Beaver (1957) Discussion > This isn't what the 50's was really like...

This isn't what the 50's was really like.


I often worry that people think this show (and Donna Reed, Andy Griffith, Father Knows Best) present a factual account of 50's life. While the show and TV at the time was "wholesome" 50's reality was harshly different. Teen pregnancy was just as common except girls were sent off to convents or unwed mothers' homes where they were forced to endure painful childbirths and their babies were taken away without them even getting a chance to see them. Women were trapped in abusive marriages because divorce was illegal in many states. Segregation and racism was the accepted norm. I get really sick and tired of people longing for "the good old days." They never existed. We should never want to return to an era where one race or gender is allowed social dominance. The only part about the 50's that we should "yearn for" is the ability to support a family on a single income. But, even back then, 60% of households had two working parents.

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Thanks for your take on the 50's. It was a hard time for many. LITB did portray a happy carefree life not without the usual trials and tribulations of growing up. I didn't have a life like theirs as my father was no Ward Cleaver.

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Yes it was really like this... for some people. And no, 60% of households didn't have 2 incomes. We are talking about a pop about 1/3 the size it is today.
They didn't put together a sitcom to tell truths. TV had only been around for 10 years. There were tensions within the family. Ward and Fred yelled and hit. George Haskell, he ignored.

Kisskiss, Bangbang

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The 60% statistic includes minority families. Just because a woman didn't work outside the home doesn't mean she didn't generate an income. Most domestic workers were women whose husbands also worked. Women would still take in sewing and mending, they would launder clothes. If the husband owned a business they were usually working alongside him. They were gardening and selling canned vegetables and jams. LITB was the ideal that very few families actually lived up to.

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It's important to realize that shows like LITB are not meant to be documentaries of their time. They are stories with a moral, didactic purpose, meant to instill moral values in an entertaining way. The Cleavers are idealized (to an extent), but they are contrasted with other families on the show who are far from ideal (like Larry Mondello, Chopper Cooper, and others). LITB highlighted the broken and dysfunctional as a contrast to the central ideal of the Cleavers.

Every period of time in human history has both good and bad in it. (Are we going to pretend that the times we're living in today are a paradise?) And different people had different experiences of a given time. I have heard plenty of people whose experience of the '50s was much like LITB.

Segregation and racism was the accepted norm. I get really sick and tired of people longing for "the good old days." They never existed. We should never want to return to an era where one race or gender is allowed social dominance.


Segregation was the norm in a limited part of the country (the south). The 1950s was the beginning of the Civil Rights Movement. The question of race relations was a live issue at that time, and many breakthroughs happened during that decade (like Brown vs. the Board of Education).

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Yes I'm quite aware--my dad grew up in a family where his father was a fall down drunk who did not finish high school.His mom worked outside the home otherwise they'd be on the streets. She was embarrassed that he hit her but did not leave him bc she was a good catholic wife

Besides, where would she go, there were no battered women's shelters yet.

My dad desperately wanted to be like the cleavers--but truthfully his family was closer to the bunkers

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I often worry that people think this show (and Donna Reed, Andy Griffith, Father Knows Best) present a factual account of 50's life. While the show and TV at the time was "wholesome" 50's reality was harshly different.

Not to nit-pick, but The Andy Griffith Show began in the fall of 1960.


While the show and TV at the time was "wholesome" 50's reality was harshly different.

Real life is almost always "harshly different" than what is portrayed on TV, movies, books, radio, songs, etc.
The medium is all about entertainment -- and what sells.
It's that simple.

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Also Andy Griffith said it was actually about life in the 30s, even though it was set in the present. The show was inspired by his own childhood.

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Hey, Doug genius. 1960 was the final year of the 50s. And that’s all the time I’ll waste on your dumb ass.

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We should never want to return to an era where one race or gender is allowed social dominance.

It wasn't "allowed," that was the way things were.
Remember, women didn't get the right to vote in the U.S. until the 1920s, blacks, in the 1960s.

Much like in ancient Rome and Greece, where Roman armies would enslave a group of people after capturing and taking over their cities.

There was no freedom of speech, religion, press, etc., which was a novel idea in the 18th Century when popularized in the U.S.

Talk about injustice!!

We should never want to return to an era where one race or gender is allowed social dominance.

Funny thing is, Americans ended those inequities.
Americans, as well as other free people in the UK and other places, led the anti-slavery movement in the 1800s.

The good thing about free people is that they generally correct mistakes and injustices.

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Yes I know Andy Griffith was the 60's. I only included him because his show is more well known than shows like Make Room for Daddy.

There are many Americans right now screaming for a return to the "good old days" and I'm just curious during what time period were those days? Are they the "Little House on Prairie" days? Someone on that board posted that they wish they could have lived during those days. How things were so much better back then. Really? When the #1 cause of death in Women was childbirth. Is it the 50's? I've given examples in my previous posts about how they weren't as "great" as these shows portray.

I know today's society is not perfect, but "ills that are destroying American values" have always existed since the dawn of time they were just more hidden.

It's a nice thought to think that free people correct mistakes and injustices, but recent events have shown me that most people are selfish, uncaring, self-righteous jerks who spew hatred against anyone who isn't exactly like them and take pride in their hatred.


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who spew hatred against anyone who isn't exactly like them and take pride in their hatred.


Yet, your posts in this thread are implicitly spewing hatred against normality, morality, men, and white people (as do most if not all liberals likewise spew such hatred on a daily basis).

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What do you mean by "normality", Navros?

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I don't hate white people. I'm white as well. I don't hate men, but I have very little respect those who abuse their status as male to assert dominance over others. And yes define "normal"? I'm actually living the Ward and June Cleaver lifestyle. I'm a stay at home mom with a successful male husband and two boys (and a girl). It's the ideal I believe everyone regardless of their race, religion, or choice of spouse should have the opportunity to achieve. Economies are far more successful when all of their citizens are given the same opportunities for success. Wouldn't a larger middle class mean less people on welfare?



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I don't hate white people


Well, posts like yours and rhetoric like you use bear close similarities to liberals who do hate white people.

I.e. Here is an example of a typical liberal who blatantly admits his anti-white racism (although he tries to spin it as a "positive" thing) by making the racist claim that all whites are automatically racist:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/10/19/to-be-white-is-to-be-racist-period-a-high-school-teacher-told-his-class


“To be white is to be racist, period,” the teacher says.


His kind of racist mentality is common among liberals. Most of them spread such racism on a daily basis, albeit they put a little more PR-spin to better-disguise the fact that they are being racist.

So I will put your claim to the test. Will you renounce the racist statement from that guy? Alternatively, will you (as would most liberals) endorse his statement after re-framing it with PR-spin that pretends it is not racist even though it indisputably is?

For additional reading to make clear that I am not cherrypicking an outlier in order to demonstrate liberals' anti-white racism, here is another example of the same exact thing. This one is a University professor who also uses public dollars to spread his racism to his students:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2015/12/26/dear-white-america-black-professors-open-letter-asks-readers-to-admit-to-the-racist-poison-that-is-inside-of-you/

Yancy called his letter “Dear White America” — published in the New York Times on Christmas Eve — a “gift.”...he also asked readers to not “run to seek shelter from your own racism....I am asking you to enter into battle with your white self. I’m asking that you open yourself up; to speak to, to admit to, the racist poison that is inside of you.

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I have very little respect for anyone who spews hatred against anyone simply because of the color of their skin, their religion, their gender, or their choice in life-partner.

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so your a Trumper

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It's a nice thought to think that free people correct mistakes and injustices, but recent events have shown me that most people are selfish, uncaring, self-righteous jerks who spew hatred against anyone who isn't exactly like them and take pride in their hatred.

Whoa... bro.
That's quite a bit of hogwash... and a generalization.

You can't legitimately or accurately make such an overarching statement about people or society at large.

Of course, SOME people are selfish and uncaring, but that can be said about ANY ERA, including today's and Ancient Rome, where people had no rights except the nobility (the wealthy).

Likewise, there are good people in any generation.

The problem here is you're seeing the past through the negative glasses imposed by modern-day educational institutions which disparage any society that isn't like their own.

BTW.... Liberal Democrats controlled Congress -- and the U.S. presidency (for the most part) -- until the 1980 Reagan Revolution and 1994 when the Republicans finally took-over Congress.
Before 1994, Democrats had a stanglehold on Congress, so don't blame conservative, everyday Americans for societal issues.

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No. It's not a generalization. I see it everyday on social media and have witnessed it in person. Look the posts of that Navaros guy. He's accusing me of contributing to the "downfall of society" because I am college educated.

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He's accusing me of contributing to the "downfall of society" because I am college educated.


I wouldn't exactly say that, unless you are using "college educated" as a synonym for "indoctrinated with evil liberal ideology - in which case, then I would say that.

But "college education" is not necessarily synonymous with "becoming an evil liberal." In fact, the original Universities were invented by Christians and taught morality and obedience to God. Certainly, most Universities today have devolved into evil bastions of Satan that are the polar opposites of the noble bastions of God they once were...but that doesn't mean that today's evil version of those institutions constitute their correct definition.

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The problem here is you're seeing the past through the negative glasses imposed by modern-day educational institutions which disparage any society that isn't like their own.


Bull's eye!

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"Remember, women didn't get the right to vote in the U.S. until the 1920s, blacks, in the 1960s."

Black men could legally vote after the Civil War (and possibly before that in certain parts of the country) Yes they were terrorized so they did NOT vote, but some places were better (Harlem) and some places were worse (Texas) and yes worse all around than white men everywhere.

But to say "Blacks didn't get the right to vote in the U.S. until the 1960's" is inaccurate. Hell, if you want to go that route, you can say they still can't vote TODAY. That would be more accurate.

The laws that are being passed today in the South to try to suppress black voter turnout bothers me, but the real bullshit was when they were dropping all these registered voters off the rolls, like in 2000 and 2004. "Oh, here's a Michael Jackson who was incarcerated for grand theft auto, let's remove EVERY Michael Jackson from the rolls."

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YOU ARE WRONG!! Black males had the right to vote since the civil war!

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Yes, LITB was really what the 50's was like. liberal propaganda posts/threads like the OP crop up from time to time, but that propaganda is the fake thing, not the normal and moral lifestyle & society as represented in LITB.

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"Yes, LITB was really what the 50's was like. liberal propaganda posts/threads like the OP crop up from time to time, but that propaganda is the fake thing, not the normal and moral lifestyle & society as represented in LITB"

Really? Were you there? If you were there did you travel to every city in this country and see every family (black and white) living exactly the way the Cleavers lived? Are those women who said they were forced to give up their babies for adoption lying? Are the children who claimed they witnessed their father beat their mothers just hallucinating? So the hundreds (maybe thousands)of historians, books (non-fiction), movies, and documentaries about 50's life are just propaganda? Are you telling me my entire college degree is based on propaganda? I'll admit I wasn't there and use to assume that this was how it was for everybody. Then I realized on my own after growing up around old, angry, bitter, heaving drinking, racial slur slinging relatives (both male and female) with children who grew up to be just as repulsive that maybe things back then were as "hunky-dory" as TV.

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Really? Were you there?


No, I was born after that time period, so I wasn't there. But I have read and watched enough material from and about the period to understand what it is was like. LITB, by the way, is one great example of that.

every family...living exactly the way the Cleavers lived?


No one is claiming that every family lived like the Cleavers. There are usually exceptions to most things. But the point was that the Cleavers represented what was the common norm of the time. Some people were better off than the Cleavers, and some were worse off, but the Cleavers represented the typical American family. Although I will grant that Ward and June were probably both much better parents than most people had the good fortune to have - but LITB addresses that point, many, many times, internally within its own story world.

Are you telling me my entire college degree is based on propaganda?


That could well be so. Most if not all schools/high schools/colleges/Universities today are taught by liberals who indoctrinate their students with their liberal ideologies. I've cited two examples of such in a previous post in this thread. "Education" from them is nearly worthless. Just about the only thing it does is teach people how to be evil.

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A lot of people when they say the long for the good ole days mean the feelings they remember not a social element that surrounded the nation. They may mean a longing for experiences such as not having the technology that dominates many lives, desire to be a stay at home mom but just cannot afford it, kids game involved imagination/creativity not video games, there was something to look forward to like Saturday morning cartoons/movies/TV shows because it was not readily available, clothing appropriate for that era (dressing for ball games), when quality meant more than quantity, etc. It does not have to mean they miss the entirety of the era but the less static life.
Even something simple as longing for a time when a trophy was a bragging right not a participation award.



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Please don't think I hate this show because I actually enjoy it. I wish TV stations would go back to airing these old shows like LITB, The Brady Bunch, and Father Knows Best. I would rather my children watch these old shows over anything that currently airs on Nickelodeon. If fact we cut our cable three years ago and my kids mainly watch PBS.


"Even something simple as longing for a time when a trophy was a bragging right not a participation award."


Funny thing about this complaint is the people I know who gripe the most about participation awards are the ones who growing up had shelves full these types of trophies.



As far as my "liberal indoctorned education"; My "liberally biased education" is the reason I'm able to live the Ward and June Cleaver lifestyle in this day and age. Plus my opinions about political and social issues didn't just come from books or what I learned in school. I've lived in the south my entire life. Every generalization you've accused me of making without any merit has come from personal experiences and face to face encounters. I'm well aware of what the world is like.

And please also note: I have not been the one on this thread screaming propaganda and accusing people of lying.




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This response was nested with my post and I must apologize if you took my post to insinuate anything about your education, political, or social position.



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shadaif

"Teen pregnancy was just as common "

Did you just make that up , to further your point?
Do you really believe that?
Did you do any research before making such a statement?

Because it is flat out wrong.
I'm not pretending it was non-existent, but it was minimal and NO WHERE NEAR what it is today and has been for the last few decades.

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[deleted]

Ummmmm. (biting my tongue)



"You cannot boil a llama and expect it to taste like a grilled monkey".

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teen girls were the ones who had to drop out of school. could not work outside the home and had to 'go away' this is why people pretended it was not as common. Oh and there was no maternity leave even for adult women either--or professional looking maternity clothes in a lot of cases (unless custom made) so becoming pregnant for grown women was difficult back then.

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Is it your notion that a TV comedy show should try to inject every aspect of life? Almost everything you mention--however accurate--is something that would be most unlikely to add to the laughter in any show.

A big part of what made Leave it to Beaver so popular is that it was quite realistic in portraying a typical small town family. People could see themselves, or their friends, as living much like the Cleavers.

No series can depict all of the different life styles of all people--obviously.

I don't know what you should be bothered by people longing for "the good ol' days." I think people in most generations feel like their younger days were grand because we tend to remember the good parts of our lives and forget many of the bad things--not the really major bad things, but the more ordinary ones.

We also blend together various good times which occurred at different time periods, which creates a happier image in our memories than what we truly experienced.














Why don't we just shoot 'em down and be through with it?

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Is it your notion that a TV comedy show should try to inject every aspect of life? Almost everything you mention--however accurate--is something that would be most unlikely to add to the laughter in any show.

Agree.
LITB was not a news program.

If such a program had included a heavy focus on news & current events, it would appear very dated today.

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Party pooper.

I've heard this POV view stated many times before. I just don't buy it. Society functioned a lot better in the 1950s.

The family unit was strong, and that benefitted all segments of society, including African American families. Statistics show that the number of AA children born out of wedlock has increased from around 20% to over 70% between 1965 and 2010.

There was a sense of shame and burden that kept people 'in line' so to speak. When you lose these things, then aberrant, damaging social behavior becomes the norm.

Were the 1950s-early 1960s perfect? Of course not, America had a lot of things to improve on, but it could be argued that the social upheaval of the late-1960s did a lot more harm than good.

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Capitalism destroyed the families; let's face facts. Back in the 50's men went to work and women stayed home, now men and women work and sometimes they work more than one job. People had more of a moral compass back then; not saying that everything was rosy, but people knew and cared about the consequences of their actions. Back in the 50's Sunday was a day of rest(I didn't experience this until the 60's and 70's)where families could be together and enjoy each other. Businesses would start closing sometime Saturday afternoon and wouldn't open again until Monday morning. I would go to church, visit one grandmother around noon for Sunday dinner and then go to my other grandmother's around 5pm. All the uncles, aunts and cousins would be there too. My parents kept all of us close to all of the big family we had. Now the family has been destroyed by money grubbing Capitalists who only care about profits. They even open their crappy businesses on Thanksgiving and Christmas now. They can't close even on two days a year now. No wonder people are so screwed up.

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Psst.... it was capitalism back then but it was a capitalism where the *consumer* held to these ideals. A business being open doesn't mean you have to go and spend money. Stay at home, get the family together. Stop feeling the need to have 400 channels so you can watch slop instead of having time with your family. Keep a reign on the internet/video game/cell phone use. But first it starts with you doing this instead of thinking that businesses need to do something instead.

I really wish that Americans (and probably most of the rest of the western world) would put the weight of change on their shoulders instead of waiting for someone else to do it or expecting government to legislate it. It may not make a big change in society but if this is what you want for your life then get to it. Stop thinking you're a victim of a society.

You do not have to participate on the same level as your neighbors. It's ok to live life on your own terms.

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I do try to live my life on my own terms, but it is difficult to get the family together like we once did since so many family members now have to work sometimes on Sunday. All I am saying is that it was better when most people had Sundays and holidays off. It was a different world back then when families ate together every night and the extended family all got together on Sunday.

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Yes, it's been proven that a common day of rest and reflection is good for everyone. Even if we personally choose to turn off everything on Sundays, we can still hear the world hustling and bustling around us. It's not relaxing. There's only one day a year that feels peaceful, and that is Christmas.

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That will soon change too. Christmas won't continue to be the one peaceful day if the retailers have anything to do with it. The already open on Thanksgiving.

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There's been a little push back on Thanksgiving, but I'm afraid you're right. There doesn't seem to be much hope for the culture to turn around.

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