MovieChat Forums > Miyamoto Musashi kanketsuhen: kettô Ganryûjima Discussion > if it was not for the sun!

if it was not for the sun!

posted 17 years ago by dacoataca
14 replies | jump to latest

after watching one of my best samurai flims i once again can't help but notice if the sun was not blinding kojiro he would have won. however in the movie you can also see that the sunlight was also reflecting off kojiro's blade towards musashi however the blinding affect is drastically more so in kojiro's eyes. all in all i offically say that kojiro would have won the match if he was not blinded buy the sun, the fact that he was still able to scar musashi proves that his skill was superior.

"life is a invincible, fragile infinitly intrinsic, simplistic, basic intriguing existence"

[–] mac_alain 17 years ago

...the fact that he was still able to scar musashi proves that his skill was superior.

Well, he had the longer sword. And, a sword against a piece of wood? Now, come on. Not very plausible, is it?

[–] phindar 12 years ago

I think he would have had a longer sword, but Musashi used the carved oar because that was longer.

[–] ScottUK 17 years ago

Is this any different to pilots attacking out of the sun to gain the upper hand?

Musashi was a superb strategist. Would he still be considered so if he didn't use every possible advantage?

It is recorded in the official history of the Hosokawa family that Musashi was questioned on his wound from Kojiro - he displayed his forehead to Hosokawa & his guests and there was no scar.

You ARE aware this film is not taken from fact, but instead from an artistic (and incorrect) dramatisation by Eji Yoshikawa?

As for sword vs bokuto, you have no idea Mac.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

Hello, Scott, welcome to our wonderful world; I see the above was your first posting, and you certainly know your stuff. (Or are you an old hand under a new alias?) Anyway, you sound like the right sort. Come and talk to us on the Kurosawa boards and elsewhere.

Re Ganryujima, I've only seen it once, but doesn't Musashi eventually draw his sword? I seem to recall him with bokuto in one hand, katana in the other. Two-sword style with a difference.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] ScottUK 17 years ago

Hi,

I have posted half a dozen other times, but they are not showing on my history for some reason...

In the Musashi v Kojiro duel, Musashi did not draw his sword, but fought the entire duel with a bokuto carved to be longer than Kojiro's sword. The entire punch-up was two cuts from Musashi:

a) one cut while Kojiro was on his feet (knocking Kojiro to the floor and probably killing him)
b) one cut done when he was probably already dead, shattering his ribs - but no-one really knows. There are plenty of conflicting stories.

Don't pay any attention to the duel in the film. It is recorded by the local magistrate (who was there) as it is listed above. It was over quickly. This is also considered the truth by Musashi's successors in the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

Well, that's very interesting and I'm glad to know it. But we are, after all, discussing the film, this is a film board. Yes, I know the novel - which I own and have read with much enjoyment - is not historically accurate; novelisations of real lives seldom are. Both book and film are a lot of fun, though!

Have you seen any other film versions of the Musashi story? Are they any good? I know there are several but the Mifune portrayal is the only one I've been able to get hold of. And which of the many biographies would you recommend? (in English, please!)

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] ScottUK 17 years ago

In talking about whatifs (original post) in a biographical movie, you need to know the facts about the real story too.

Other Musashi films? Try this mini-series: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0353079/ - it is often for sale on eBay but once again is filled with nonsense, but then again, no more than Troy or Alexander...

Bios? Only one - go look for 'Miyamoto Musashi - His Life & Writings' by Kenji Tokitsu. Fantastic.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

no more than Troy or Alexander...

Not much of a recommendation, then! those two were total pants. Still, I'll have a look for it. And certainly the Tokitsu book, thanks a lot for that. I've got the Five Rings, fascinating, and in my edition there's a reproduction of a beautiful brush painting by Musashi. A complex character.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

Scott, please come and read my post on "Samurai Swords" on the Seven Samurai board; I'd value your thoughts on my thoughts!

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] ContinentalOp 15 years ago

Of course, the sun played a great factor in Musashi's victory. A great swordsan doesn't have brute strength but a stragedy.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

[–] Beebler 13 years ago

Early on in the fight, Musashi was strafing to the TV viewer's left and Kojiro was matching him by also strafing left, putting Musashi at a disadvantage in the muddy sand with the waves breaking on his legs. *Then* the sun comes out and gives Musashi the advantage.

Was it all part of Musashi's strategy, or was the timing of the sun coming out just lucky?

Also, Kojiro marvels at Musashi's strategy in Part 2 using the rice patties to his advantage against a large number of enemies so you could argue that Kojiro didn't study his enemy well enough if using the sun was Musashi's strategy all along.

[–] ubermutant 13 years ago

It was Kojiro who chose to engage before Mushasi even reached dry land. In my mind, Kojiro could have controlled the initial disposition by choosing where he met or drew his katana.

Perhaps, this was Kojiro's flaw. He sought a quick advantage by having Musashi in the wet sand. However, Kojiro's rashness also led to his downfall, as he didn't analyze the whole scenario, only focusing on the immediate situation.

Or, perhaps Kojiro was so anxious for fame and glory that he just rushed upon Musashi without any consideration for tactical advantage.

[–] Kawada_Kira 11 years ago

Perhaps, this was Kojiro's flaw. He sought a quick advantage by having Musashi in the wet sand. However, Kojiro's rashness also led to his downfall, as he didn't analyze the whole scenario, only focusing on the immediate situation.

I agree with this.

Sig under construction

[–] melinda2001 8 years ago

The fight was fair. Kojiro was choosing to face into the sun in exchange for forcing Musashi to fight from the surf. He could have joined him in the surf or let him out of the water and away from the glare at any time.