Betsy Rath a Hateful Woman?


Is there anyone who would like to be married to a Betsy Rath? She is portrayed as grasping, narrow minded, unforgiving, defining being a bitch. She showed no understanding for the trauma Tom went through in the war or in his job. She seldom showed warmth. Her explosion at his confession about the wartime affair seemed phony. It seemed to be just an excuse for her venting her feelings.

Is she a younger version of the frigid Helen Hopkins?

How about the self-centered Susan Hopkins (played by 15 yr old Gigi Perreau)? Is she a younger Betsy in-the-making?

How does she compare to the image of the Fifties housewife portrayed in such films as The Stepford Wives?

Did the authors/writers intend these women be living embodiments of the "Mom" of Philip Wylie's Generation of Vipers?

There is enough hatred of women to fill a half dozen films.

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I'm not sure about your reference to the Stepford Wives. The original (and best) movie by that name was not about 50s housewives, but 70s wives. I found that to be a terrifying movie and the Nicole Kidman remake a total waste of time and talent. But I will have to rewatch The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, because I do not remember his wife being a bitch.

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The wives in Stepford Wives were patterned after the 'June Cleavers' of the Fifties.

As to being a bitch, it was a question, not a statement. Did she cross the line?

Not sure you are the one to answer whether you would like to be married to a Betsy Wrath, er, Rath.

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Betsy Rath was to a large extent typical of the portrayal of middle class American wives of the 1940s-50s. You could say she's bitchy, or you could say she's hypersensitive -- she hasn't had to face much of the "real world" (i.e., the one where people get shot at, have to scrounge for food, etc.) so she doesn't handle unpleasant realities very well.

That doesn't mean she didn't have some difficult experiences during the war, but she wasn't in combat and didn't live in an occupied country. No one would expect Betsy to shrug off her husband's wartime romance; her "bitchy" behavior has a basis in both myth and fact. (I was a child of the 1950s and my mother could be like that sometimes.)

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I agree with you. Betsy is far being ahateful woman. I dind't get that at all. In fact, I think she is a normal good looking American housewife. I think she is rather likable and attractive, perhpas not as exitivc or sexy as heis wartime love, but abolutely nothing like Hopkins' wife.

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I think she is rather likable and attractive, perhpas not as exitivc or sexy as heis wartime love, but abolutely nothing like Hopkins' wife.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with Hopkins' wife. She and Hopkins clearly love each other but she resents his business' coming first and feels that their daughter's deficiencies of character are due to his lack of domestic involvement. Observe that there's no hint that either has been unfaithful to the other or that there's a lack of respect. And as Hopkins correctly observes, successful businesses aren't built by 9 - 5 guys. He's a good guy but is what he is, i.e. he's driven to succeed in business.

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I find her to be annoying as hell. She carps and crabs and bitches and moans throughout the movie. So many times, I just want Tom (Greg Peck) to shout at her to shut the hell up, or to ask her as simple question:

"Betsy, during your horrible day, was anyone shooting at you?"

That just goes to show you. You go someplace and there you are.

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I didn't view her as a hateful woman. I thought she portrayed a normal human wife. In the 50's she didn't have the opportunity to get out of the house and contribute to the household. She had to stay home all day in a house she hated, take care of the kids, provide nourishment and support to her family, etc. Because her husband was basically a good man, she was given money to do all these things but she was still at his mercy for support and information.
As far as her carping goes, I thought that she had a right to be disappointed in her husband. He went away to the war and came back a different man but didn't share with her any of the reasons he changed. It's a common story that many of those men refused to talk about their experiences. Their families had to find ways to deal with them but without knowing the why and how. Betsy tried to remind him of how he used to be. She had to be strong when he was weak. If it wasn't for her, he never would have changed jobs, got a $3000/year raise, moved to a nicer house, etc. She reminded him of what was right and wrong. And remember that he wanted to do these things, he just too scared to do them on his own. Several times he said how important taking care of his wife and family was to him.
Then she tells him that he had an affair and a child during the war. During that time, she was going crazy thinking he was dead because he wasn't writing to her. She couldn't do anything about it except sit at home and hope she didn't get a telegram. Not only did she feel betrayed, she also felt cheated. He was having a great time with his girlfriend while she was just sitting hoping he wasn't dead. Although he had given up hope, she never did.
In the end, she loved him more than he loved himself. She believed in him and had faith that he was a better man than he believed himself to be. Because of her, he was a better person.

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"Having a great time with his girlfriend...." lol Yeah, I guess you missed the part where he told her he killed 17 men, many in hand-to-hand, kill-or-be-killed, combat. Slitting a boys throat to get his coat. Living in the field, rarely bathing, eating lousy food, if you were lucky to eat at all, all the time hoping you won't be killed, wounded, captured or have to kill again. And seeing man's inhumanity to man up close and personal, bodies torn to pieces. Boy, musta been a blast!

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Oh come on! Of coarse war is hell and I never meant to diminish that. But he wasn't in combat while he was having his affair. See comments below.

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Sure you did. Oh, he wasn't in combat....anymore. He'd just got through with combat in Italy and was awaiting transfer to the Pacific. You think he could have just turned off what he'd experienced or put out of his head where he was going? He was a, by definition of what he'd gone through, a very damaged human being. You can't take an ordinary person, put them in that Hell and not expect otherwise.

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The part about the house being "ugly" and "unhappy" really ticked me off. I would love to have a house like that!

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I just saw the movie with my wife, and agree about the comments about the house. My wife is also reading the book, and found that there it explains the somewhat irrational feeling they have about the house, which is not discussed well in the movie. Also, in the book the wife is not as unsympathetic a character as in the movie.

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In fairness to her, his confession was a whole lot for her to take in at that moment. She basically had to re write those months of her life and make them conform to reality. She did bounce back and even advocated for the boy in the end (a nice touch giving her that line at the end when they met with the judge).

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Apparently some of you can only see stereotypes and not human reality and complexity. I thought she was the best character in the film. 1. Yes she freaked at hearing her husband's adultery and fathering a child. Who wouldn't. 2. After a day or two of thinking about it, she was the one standing beside him with the judge demanding he do the right thing. Hateful or human? 3. Yes, she pushed him a little--of course she wanted a better life--most of us need a wife like that--gave him the backbone to stand up to his boss and demand an honest raise, and 4. then told him to give his true opinion to his boss, 5. then, even, despite the risk of losing it all, told him to do the right thing and not be a worm. Hateful or heroically human? What a great role model!!!! But yes, simplistic super hero fans, she was not perfect, but very human.

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"A great role model"???????

If memory serves (I saw it years ago)she told her husband she no longer respected or admired him.
The reason?
She didn't like living in a drafty house.
Compare that to Marie. Wasn't her entire house was being propped up by a chair?

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That blew me away when I first watched that scene when she told Tom she no longer respected or admired him. What's the point in staying married if one spouse can say that to the other? I could kinda sympathize with her frustration, but that was a helluva thing to tell a spouse.

"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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Kind of reminds me of Frank and April Wheeler in "Revolutionary Road".

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Bitch or not, pay attention to when Tom describes the situation - how he wasn't sure if he'd be killed the next day, the constant strain of combat, etc. When she asks him when this all happened, he describes a date months after the war in Europe had ended.

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True -- but he also knew he was on his way to the Pacific theater, where he is later shown in combat with buddies dying around him. During his time with Maria in Rome, he constantly talks about how he thinks he'll die in the war, so I don't think all the strain of combat stuff was made up to appease his wife. For all he knew, those few weeks in Rome were the last bits of happiness he'd ever experience.

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If memory serves (I saw it years ago)she told her husband she no longer respected or admired him.
The reason?
She didn't like living in a drafty house.

Get it right. Her reason wasn't the drafty house but what it represented - that rather than risk a better position that might not work out, he'd opted for security with little hope of advancement. It was a harsh thing to say but my impression was that she was attempting to jar him into being gutsier. He, on the other hand, with a family to support, wanted to play it safe (recall that he kept suggesting they cut their losses and bank what they could, again for security's sake). I can see both sides of this issue and in fact, I think that's what's so great about this film. It's very well-written and well-performed and we can sympathize with pretty much everyone except the two bad guys: the dishonest servant and Tom's immediate boss. I thought Betsy was an excellent foil for Tom because even though it was risky to her family's security, she pushed him to be true to himself and be honest in his dealings with Hopkins because she really believed in his ability and was confident it would lead to success. I thought her character was splendid.

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Well, you have to remember the life he had led up until then. Growing up in the Great Depression, when so many had nothing, then into the greatest war mankind has ever known. A little security was pretty good thing, all things considered.

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In the novel, Betsy Rath was a nicer woman. But I didn't think she was hateful here. She should have had her husband's job because she would have handled it better, but, of course, in 1955 (setting of the novel), no woman would have been given such a job. She doesn't know of her husband's war expreiences because he, like most returning service men of the time, didn't talk about them. She does know that he's changed somehow. She was a strong woman, and Tom seems cowed, unwilling to take any chances, but just to stay safe in order to support a wife and three children. It was Betsy who urged Tom to tell the truth to Ralph Hopkins and that made all the difference. Betsy was the one with the idea about moving into the grandmother's house and then selling land to make a housing development. She stands by her husband and supports him in making the legal agreement to send the illegitimate son a monthly sum of money. Incidentally, in the novel, Maria didn't tell Tom she was pregnant; she didn't know. Tom didn't know of his illegitimate son until the elevator operator told him in 1953 at his office building. Also in the novel, several months elapsed before the men were sent to the South Pacific, not just six weeks as shown in the film. Tom Rath owes a lot to Betsy.

If you want to know what happened to Tom and Betsy Rath and their family you can read the sequel to the original novel, "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit II" (1984). In that novel, Tom and Betsy have divorced. Tom's illegitimate son has come to America, gets drafted into the Vietnam War, and is killed there. Many other things happen as well.

Wilson also wrote "What Shall We Wear to This Party? The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit 20 Years Before & After." This is an autobiographical book that helps to explain the people he wrote about in "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" and the world they lived in. You will see he drew on a number of events in his own life. Following "The Man in The Gray Flannel Suit," he wrote "A Summer Place," which was another best-seller. It was made into a very popular movie. But both the novel and the film are very sexist, very dated, and embarrassing to read and to watch today. After "A Summer Place," Wilson went into decline; his other books were not best sellers. He was alcoholic for most of his life and had Alzheimer's disease near the end. Born May 8, 1920-Died May 25, 2003).

As I read over the comments on this message board, I was dismayed to what extent the posters do not understand the film. They can't understand that the film deals with complex ideas that married couples faced, particuarly after world war 2, conflicts and decisions to be made about jobs, about housing, about living a good life--a life many felt they deserved after serving in WW2. Many people today have trouble concentrating on a film like this. There aren't sci-fi monsters, mobsters, car chases, explosions, and the other nonsense that fill too many modern films, and those films have influenced the way viewers react to films.

I was 15 when I read the novel, which was serialized in "Collier's" magazine. I couldn't wait for the next installment of arrive. And when the book came out, I checked it out of the library and read it over again. Even though I had no memory of WW2, since I was a very young child during the 40s, I still, at age 15, could understand what these people were going through. Never did I think the plot was dull.

Well, ultimately it comes down to the difference of generations and how quickly people forget the past.

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I didn't find her to be a hateful woman at all. Jones' portrayal makes it very clear that her motivation for everything she does is love for her husband and a desire to bring him back to her from wherever he's gone due to his war experiences. It's only natural that she would have no understanding of those experiences, so that makes her good intentions seem like being "hateful". And it's pretty obvious that her husband didn't see her honest criticism and straightforwardness as "bitchy". He saw it for what it was, and responded accordingly. Tom learns about 3/4 of the way through the film what it will take the rest of the film for Betsy herself to realize -- that Tom would be nothing without her.

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She came across as a woman who was driven by ambition even if it was for her Husband to suceed. At times she did come across negatively criticising Tom for not thinking big when he was being realistic. It was a recurring theme through out The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, people being driven by ambition for better or worse.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

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It seemed she was very materialistic. She was obsessed with moving out of the house they were living in when the movie starts. I mean, it wasn't a mansion, but it wasn't exactly the shack Oliver and Lisa Douglas lived in, in Green Acres either. But at the same time, I can't blame her for being mad when she finds out Tom fathered a child in Italy while they were married.

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The film shows a fairly realistic couple dealing with the stresses a couple with small kids, small income, stress at work...might face.

Lee J. Cobb (who plays the lawyer) gets it right. He respects Betsy Rath...she's the one to speak up and ask for the trust for her husband's child by a WW2 mistress.

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Jennifer Jones, and her character, ruined this movie for me. For one thing, I hate the way JJ acts - she always has a gaping mouth and twists her face up all the time, but her mouth especially is ugly whenever she opens it, and she talks a bit slurred.

Betsy Rath was a total insensitive harpy. She was always demanding & whiny; never understanding or encouraging until the very end when she sees the judge. She became an unsympathetic character right off the bat when she's criticizing her husband and telling him something to the effect of she's ashamed of him and lost all respect for him and he's nothing but a coward. Then she doesn't apologize after she's clearly wounded him, she just continues on with supper. She was always pushing him that what they had wasn't good enough - she wanted a better house and more money and he wasn't as good as before the war. He did take some big risks b/c of her and fortunately they paid off, but what if they hadn't??? They would've been broke, unemployed, and homeless!

Then after discussing grandma's house, she just goes ahead and sells their house anyway and informs him that they're moving in Thursday! WTF?! (And certainly she was lying about someone just showing up and offering cash for their house when it wasn't even on the market - c'mon!) Of all the things Tom deals with and has had to deal with, Betsy's load of crap wasn't what he needed to come home to each night - he seemed like a lonely character in that way, even though they were always proclaiming their love for eachother.

She made some valid points when she finds out about his affair, but then the way she throws a big tantrum like a spoiled child again kills any sympathy for her - bawling on the lawn and driving like a bat out of hell all night, that was just stupid.

It seems like he was never really loved for himself - only what he could provide for people. Betsy for sure comes off this way. But Maria did too - the very first date, she's asking for food. I can understand this being wartime I guess, but the whole time he's with her, he has to bring her boxes of food. And then once she gets his address years later, she has nothing much to say except send money. I think he did have a financial responsibility to his Italian son, but everytime Maria's in a scene she's taking from Tom. There really was no good female character in this movie at all, although I did enjoy that strict babysitter - she was great!


"Are you going to your grave with unlived lives in your veins?" ~ The Good Girl

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Affair a decade ago? What did she expect Tom to do while overseas?

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I found her to be a very selfish person. She complains about her house and how terrible it is. But for that time, it seems like a fairly good house. I don't like the person she is.

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A woman who sucks it up and accepts the physical manifestation of her loved one's having been with another woman, who also happens to need financial support and who is an unwelcome half-sibling to her own children, is SELFISH? Sorry, I'm with the judge on this one.

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