I thought that was an interesting little detail they added, having Montagu say something like "he'll make England proud" and being rebuked by the father who says "you English always do that, refer to England when you mean Britain". It adds a shade of nuance to the dialogue and characterisation that you don't expect in a WWII flick of this era.
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Yes, that's one of my favorite scenes in the film, and a rather sad one.
"This is an opportunity for your son to do a great thing for England."
"My son, sir, was a Scot, and very proud of it."
"I beg your pardon."
"Never mind -- we're used to that. You English are always talking about 'England' when you mean 'Britain'."
I picked up on that too. Course I do the same thing. Never could understand, England, Scotland, Wales, etc. always thought Great Britain meant all of them including Ireland -- sorry if I made big bad there.
sharePeople often say "England" for the United Kingdom in the same way they say "Holland" for the Netherlands (Holland is the largest of seven constituent former kingdoms within the Netherlands), or used to say "Russia" for the old USSR, when Russia was the largest of its 15 republics. Each was the most important component of the larger country, hence the imprecise usages.
The country's complete, correct name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. (Before Ireland became independent in 1922, the UK's full title included simply "Ireland".) "Great Britain" is the island (not a country) containing England, Scotland and Wales, but not of course Northern Ireland. However, plain "Britain" is shorthand usage for the entire United Kingdom, the way "America" is short for the United States.
I have no idea what they'll do if Scotland opts for independence in its referendum next year...though that probably won't happen.
To confuse things further, many people conflate "Northern Ireland" with "Ulster", one of the four traditional Irish provinces. In fact, while all of Northern Ireland lies in Ulster, three counties to the west, in the Republic of Ireland, are also in Ulster, so the two terms are not really interchangeable.
My wife is English (or British), so I have to keep these things straight!
However, plain "Britain" is shorthand usage for the entire United Kingdom, the way "America" is short for the United States. "
The official name of the United States is the United States of America. No other country has America in its title.
That's true...though the fact that no other country has "America" in its title is pretty meaningless; no other country has "Britain" in its title, either, to cite just one of about 190 other examples.
However, why is "America" only considered a shorthand term -- not the proper name -- for the United States, when the United States of Mexico and the United States of Brazil are correctly referred to as plain Mexico and Brazil?
Probably because we got there first.
For that matter, how come we say "United States Virgin Islands" but "American Samoa"? Country names are nothing if not inconsistent.
"...the United States of Mexico..." Not to put too fine a point on it, but Mexico's formal name is "Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos" - which translates as "The Mexican United States". (Not sure about the United States of Brazil.)
Yeah, actually Brazil is now known formally as the Federative Republic of Brazil (República Federativa do Brasil). "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" is translated as "United Mexican States".
But Scotland is still in the United Kingdom!
Word-by-word, "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" is "States United Mexican" - hence, in its entirety, the "Mexican United States". ("United Mexican States" would be "Estados Mexicanos Unidos" in Spanish.)
You make the common mistake of translating from Spanish to English the way you think it should look or sound, rather than how it actually translates. Spanish sentence structure is really rather simple and straightforward, and does not follow the same linguistic logic as English.
The rebuke would have been more legitimate had the father claimed his son was 'proud to be British' rather than 'proud to be Scottish'. One cannot criticize someone for using the (arguably) wrong demonym and then immediately screwing up oneself.
Irony abounds when these nationalists get up a head of steam.
While I'm here the real dead man was a Welshman.
Interesting!
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Bullshit. The father is not obligated to be unduly politically correct about what his son wa proud to be so as not to hurt the the navy's feelings.
Commander Montagu is the only one that, in his position, had a duty to recognise the full and correct context of what he is asking to take the man's son for. No doubt the officer was proud to be an Englishman and it is for that reason he confused England with Britain. Scots and Welsh never seem to find themselves being so tactless in this area, not matter how proud they are of their home nation.
While I'm here. The ruse was intended to save the lives of US and British soldiers. But also, soldiers from the British Empire.