MovieChat Forums > Oklahoma! (1956) Discussion > Curly tries to talk Jud into killing him...

Curly tries to talk Jud into killing himself and the audience roars...


What's up with that? I saw "Oklahoma" on the big screen maybe 3 years ago and when the "Poor Jud is Dead" scene came on, I was taken aback that so many people thought it was hilarious how the "hero" was making all these suggestions as to how the "villain" could commit suicide. And with this big charming, winking half-smile on his face. I don't think Jud is a good guy by any means, but I was still shocked. I know it's just a big, dumb Hollywood musical (albeit an entertaining one with a lot of very good songs), but it just proved once again the degree to which people can turn into sheep. I guess it also proves once again the degree to which I will resist group think if the premise is offensive.

I've been over posting and reading comments on another thread about whether suicide is selfish and I would say the majority consider suicide a great sin. So how does Curly get to be the hero when he is trying to talk one of his fellow human beings into killing himself? I may be taking the scene out of context, but only to a degree. Sometimes I just can't keep up with all these exceptions to the rules. But there was no good will in the audience. I felt kind of bad for Jud. He was doomed.

"Oklahoma", as good a musical as it is, is first and foremost a huge crowd pleaser. I saw it in a small town in the Midwest where everybody is pro-gun and anti-Obama and so terrified of change that they never seem to leave the Wall-Mart. I was definitely the outsider that evening.

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I think Curley is a jerk, but I'll give him his due; his song is clever and has some funny back-handed compliments ("He treated the rats like equals; which was right.")

I'm also from the midwest and attended a live performance of "Oklahoma" a few years ago in which this song laid a big egg; not so much as a smile from any of the hundreds of people in attendance.

Long story short: you probably need to have a subtle and dark sense of humor to appreciate the song. Even at that, I still feel bad for the way that Curley, and, well, everybody else in the town, treats Jud like dirt.

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I think I have a subtle and pretty dark sense of humor. My favorite comedies are "Heat" and "Trash" (Warhol) and "Female Trouble" and "Polyester" (John Waters) and "Reform School Girls" and "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore" and "3 Women".

Unlike the other audience members who smiled whenever the hero was being "cute".

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God, lolling at my list of "subtle" comedies...

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I think anybody who's anybody knows this is dark humor. I remember when I went and saw this at a local high school, everyone was laughing at this song.

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I think Curly is being an a--hole, and I too, feel sorry for Judd, but I still got the dark humor in this song. It's not for all tastes, however.

Dini

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[deleted]

It's kind of weird how Curly can get away with being a dick largely because he is good-looking. Human nature can really rule things and sometimes not in a good way.

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Exactly! If these two guys are the best she can do, Laurie should consider online dating.

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😃

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Exactly! If these two guys are the best she can do, Laurie should consider online dating.


Laurie started off the movie being dishonest about her feelings for Curly and instead was coy, passive aggressive...and a liar. Then she lied to Jud by making him think she was truly interested in him. Laurie used Jud to make Curly jealous when all she had to do was be honest with everyone in the first place. Her manipulativeness pitted the two men against each other which built and built as one terrible thing after another happened. Ultimately, her irresponsible and immoral behaviour resulted in a person's death.

Laurie was hardly a catch. î‚‚

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LOL I don't think they had online dating in the 1800's, isn't that when Oklahoma took place?

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While it's very dark humor, I actually laughed out loud at this song just for some of the funny lines, such as the one about the daisies not smelling quite the same.

There were lots of witty insults that are pretty funny. It had already been established that Jud is an ass hole and a murderer -- he burned down a house with a family in it, killing them. Who cares about a few insults in a song.




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Curly is impish. He slyly smiles at the back of Jud's head while he takes liberties with the lyrics. Especially when he responds with the word 'good.'

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It's not a "big, dumb Hollywood musical". It's a landmark Broadway musical that was made into a film and that scene is almost word-for-word from the stage script.

It's not offensive at all. It's a dark scene and Curly does it in a charming way. He doesn't just say "Go kill yourself". He's merely making observations about how easy it would be in the smokehouse to do it. Curly isn't an a'hole at all. Here is what Judd has done up to that point:

- Been generally creepy
- Spied on Laurey as she is in her underwear
- Bullied Laurey into not breaking their date

And Curly is the a'hole?

Plus, what does he spend his time doing the rest of the movie:

- Threatening Curly if he tries to get with Laurey
- Trying to get Laurey alone and take advantage of her
- Threatening Curly saying that he's going to need his gun
- Arranging the "little wonder" and attempting to murder Curly
- Demeaning, insulting and man-handling Laurey because she thinks he's a creep and he's not getting anywhere with her
- Setting fire to Laurey and Curly because he doesn't like them

(Plus the song "Lonely Room" in which he basically whacks off about Laurey in song.)

So, Curly is the a'hole for having a comicly dark scene even though Judd is the villain of the piece?

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Curly rubs me the wrong way for a few reasons. First, he us the obvious, All-American hero whom everybody in the mainstream audience is supposed to look up to. Yet, our hero very casually and comically suggests a number if ways that Jud could kill himself. And the middle America audience was loving it, they were with Curly the whole way. It is this exact segment of population whom I strongly suspect who would without reservation make a claim for suicide being the ultimate mortal sin. Yet, when the circumstances are given a little rearranging, well, let's just say Curly is handsome enough and white bread All American enough with all those good, solid, masculine American virtues, that the subtext of the "Jud is Dead " somehow change without else paying any attention.

I found it smug, distasteful, and just mean spirited. Not that I found Jud's character to be a gray guy, but ironically, I found him more sympathetic/pitiful than that local yokel Curly singing "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning!" at such an obscene hour. He had everything going for him. A little humility would have gone a long way.

And sorry I called thus movie a big. Dumb Hollywood musical. It's just very commercial. That's more what I meant. It's quite entertaining.

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