Does anyone know if any of the parts besides Paola Mori's had to be redubbed? The voice of the man who gets stabbed at the beginning of the film seems to be dubbed too, and sounds very much like Welles to me. Also, Mischa Auer's voice seems dubbed. I've seen him in a lot of films, and the voice sounds nothing like him. That voice also sounds like Welles to me.
shareI just saw it yesterday & was surprised that most of the film looked to be dubbed. At one point it was so out of sync, it almost seemed that they were speaking another language than English.
shareThe early scenes between Van Stratten and Zouk are like this because after all the film had already been shot, Welles got the idea to change his film from a linear story into a series of flashbacks. But he couldn't go back and shoot more film, so he used footage he shot between Van Stratten and Zouk, but had the actors dub in completely different dialog that would explain the flashbacks. So the actors are speaking English, but just totally different words on film than on the soundtrack. And I think Welles changed dialog in other bits of the film as well as he tinkered away in the editing room.
shareYes, Orson Welles dubbed a lot of the characters in this film, according to a biography I've read. I don't have this book in front of me now, but it's title was "Citizen Welles", and as I remember it he was said to have dubbed several of the voices because of some problems with the sound.
shareThe weird thing is, I've just seen another DVD release of Arkadin, which is considerably different from the first. This release is supposed to be closest to Welles idea for the editing, although I assume that had to be done somewhat speculatively from whatever notes Welles left about his intentions, since I don't believe he ever got to cut the film. The sound in this version is much better.
Anyway thanks for the info, I've got to check out that bio and get the full story.
From what I've read (and observed), Welles provided the voices for many of the secondary male characters in the film--Bracco, the Secretary, Oscar, and others.
Technically, all the actors were dubbed--"looped" actually. In his European films, Welles always shot without sound and added it all in later on. Sometimes the original actors provided the voices, sometimes not.
If you haven't already ordered it, check out the new Criterion DVD, which discusses the dubbing Welles did. Not only that, but it turns out that not all versions of the film use the dubbing. The most notable instant of this is Bracco's death scene -- the original dialogue, used in the Confidential Report cut, has Bracco explaining his motivation as revenge, whereas in the other edits he has much more complicated reasons for putting Van Stratten on the trail of Arkadin and Sophie.
*/\*Goonies never say die!*/\*
My understanding from the Criterion extra material was that Welles' voice dub WAS the original dialog, and that the Confidential Report version was different dialog written by the producer who then had it dubbed in by another actor after the fact.
In a sense, the entire film was dubbed, since the movie was not filmed with sync sound--all the dialog had to be looped in later. Sometimes the dubbed voice was that of the original actor, sometimes not. We'd have to get a lip reader to tell us exactly what words the actor playing Bracco originally spoke. Welles was notorious for changing dialog around during looping in his independant flicks.
Actually, going from the Criterion extras, it seems that at least some of the film WAS shot with sync-sound; there are outtakes of Welles directing and Welles acting in the picture where the on-set sound is clearly audible -- it's not "clean", though, so you can see why Welles would've dubbed it in studio later.
Robert Arden sounds a lot more natural in the on-set take sound, actually.
Yes, in general, with European fims of this period, the voice was added afterward; they didn't have the studios or generally the finances to record quality sound on location. The scenes in the beginning are particularly off sync, however, so it would suggest that there was a change in the dialogue from what was filmed.
shareI adressed this already under the post ARDEN'S ACTING...
But the most annoying dubs to me were Robert Arden dubbing himself... When you dub a voice it's always more dramatic than when you original act the part... So Arden's voice seemed as if he were on stage trying to reach the back of the theater, as it were, instead of being there in the scene itself speaking to other characters... Didn't you get the feeling that Arden was giving speeches the entire time in lue of having conversations... I think part of this is that he's not a top notch actor, but I think mostly the reason is that he dubbed his own voice...
I think if Arden's voice wasn't dubbed his performance would have at least seemed better... More natural... More THERE or something...
Enik,
I totally agree with your analysis on Arden.
Anyone confirm there is a version has the little dubbing????
The dubbing and out of sync is a deal breaker for me on buying- very distracting.
Al
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I hated Robert Arden's dub. He sounds like Van Johnson. The voice doesn't match the face.
share[deleted]
some very strange sudden cutting between scenes, like something you recognise from a tv movie, i've seen movies with orson welles from around the same time in production where he looked way unhealthier, like he was about to drop any second, then you see him in movies decades later, those make up departments must be some pretty busy people. at first i resented a bit watching this when i saw it wasn't english made, i can read the subtitles but i enjoy actors performing the dialogue so much that i rather watch movies in languages i can understand, so i was thrilled to see it was in english after all, i'm not sure if gert frobe was dubbed here or not, a bit unsure of the lip movement there.
luck on my side,
since you came back around,
didn't give me a thing to complain about,
since you came back around,
i keep searching through
but my lady luck is you.
Patricia Medina was very badly dubbed and did Van Johnson dub Arden?