MovieChat Forums > Bad Day at Black Rock (1955) Discussion > Unrealistic Fight Scene

Unrealistic Fight Scene

posted 11 years ago by joeparkson
12 replies | jump to latest

When Tracy has Borgnine helpless and leaning against the wall, Tracy just stands there waiting for Borgnine to resume the fight.

That's not how fights go. When your opponent is stunned, you don't wait on him, you continue to hit him. Each blow sets up an opening for the next blow until he's finished.

All the while, Borgnine's buddies just sit and watch him get the ass whupping of his life.

After Borgnine is down and out, Tracy bends over and pulls out a switchblade from Borgnine's pocket. Was this some sort of homage to Borgnine's character in "From Here To Eternity"? How come Borgnine didn't even try and use it on Tracy?

Absurdity: A Statement or belief inconsistent with my opinion.

[–] ecapital46 11 years ago

Very True. No way in real life characters like Robert Ryan and Lee Marvin would ever just sit there and watch in that situation. However, not sure if the knife was a "From Here to Eternity" homage since Borgnine never called Tracy a 'Tough Monkey.'

[–] Erik-Bloodaxe 11 years ago

I think that within the rationale of the movie Tracy was a straight up and down "good guy" who didn't intend to knock Borgnine senseless so he kept giving him chances to back off.
Realistic or not its one of the greatest fight scenes (IMHO) in any movie; my favourite bit is where Tracy karate chops Borgnine and Lee Marvins sits open mouthed as he he sees it.

"Knowledge is cheap at any price"

[–] RSBonos 11 years ago

I don't think that it's that hard to believe that they wouldn't step in. This isn't an action movie where Tracy has to be taken out, he was just a regular guy getting picked on by a bully. Besides, there were some other witnesses in the bar at the time who weren't part of the story, so Borgnine wasn't going to stab him and the rest wouldn't all just jump in and beat on Tracy.

The only unrealistic part of the fight were those karate chops and obviously the huge age/physical difference. You can stun a regular person with no fighting ability with these kind of moves (especially a bully who's probably a coward at heart, and the neck strike and knee were very good shots), so it's not impossible even if it was a huge stretch. The Aikido/Judo throw would be possible to land on a semi-concussed man like Borgnine was.

The scene was really entertaining, that's all that matters.

[–] SeanJoyce 11 years ago

Realistic or not its one of the greatest fight scenes (IMHO) in any movie

Surely a great scene, but the prerequisite for a great FIGHT SCENE is that both parties (or every) execute some degree of offensive measure.

http://jmoneyyourhoney.filmaf.com/owned

[–] joekiddlouischama 10 years ago

The point was not to stage a "realistic" fight scene, but to suggest character and theme in a stylized, dramatic manner. And indeed, the diner scene is one of the most memorable in film history, in my opinion.

Additionally, I'm not sure that it proved unrealistic in the context of these characters and the law. The Robert Ryan and Lee Marvin characters were more than willing to sacrifice the Ernest Borgnine character rather than incriminate themselves in broad daylight, and the Spencer Tracy character was not going to incriminate himself by acting as the aggressor after he had already injured his agitator. Like the overall film, the fight scene in the diner constituted a study in calculation, conscious of morality, legality, and movie traditions.

[–] Rupert__Pupkin 9 years ago

To the original poster - I find it humorous that you think it's unrealistic that no one jumped in to help Ernest Borgnine's character, yet you have no problem believing that an elderly man with one arm could beat a giant young thug in fistfight.

It seemed obvious to me that no one jumped in because they figured at some point Borgnine would kick McGreedy's butt. Only in Hollywood would it have been the other way around.

Spencer Tracy did as good a job as he could have, but he never should have played the role. Poor casting.

[–] srklondie 9 years ago

Why not try to just enjoy the film?

[–] Imlac 8 years ago

My first viewing, I was too in shock to notice.

But in watching it again recently, it still holds up: Ryan calls the shots (I love the pinball rolling sound on the soundtrack), and lets others do his dirty work, so he'd have to make the first move, and probably wouldn't in a public place. And Marvin seems content to let things play out...he's got all the time in the world.

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

i think it's quite absurd the way they obligingly wait for Tracy to beat them up one at a time.

[–] Ironman54 8 years ago

More odd is that hes a crippled, gray haired older gentleman (not to mention hes a disabled WWII vet) and a younger men these younger men think nothing of picking on him, teasing him over his arm ('You could use a hand ...") etc. I love this movie so I overlook these shortcomings but I'm surprised that more than one of the movies makers, not to mention all 3 younger actors, didn't think it too odd. The saving grace is that Treacys character is obviously a former Special Forces soldier so it all works out as far as the fight goes.
Once you see what a trained tough guy he is its easy to forget those earlier in the films unlikely scenes. I can't help but think of Dana Andrews characters reaction at the pharmacy he worked at when that loud mouth criticized who the US sided with in the war.
You can always find one punk loud mouth just about anywhere but 3 ?
Compare it to these 3 younger guys treatment of Treacy or the one cops objection to Lt McClusky's treatment of Michael Corleone. A least the Lt was OLDER than Mikey.
Anyhow, great movie otherwise.

[–] partsman 8 years ago

More odd is that hes a crippled, gray haired older gentleman (not to mention hes a disabled WWII vet)

That's a big problem with the film, Tracy was too old for the part. It's set in 1945, the year the war ended, but he's "a gray haired older gentleman". He should have been 25 to 30 years younger.

Also, people didn't have the same attitude towards vets as we do today. They respected them, but so many had served in the war that most men were vets. Also they looked at it as their duty and nothing that special. They came home, were told good job now just get back to your life.

The saving grace is that Treacys character is obviously a former Special Forces soldier so it all works out as far as the fight goes.

I don't think he was special forces, he served in Italy. Also in WWII special forces weren't like they are today and Japanese karate wasn't well known in the U.S. until after the war. I took it that he learned it from his friend that had saved his life, Kamato's son.

[–] mitch1492 8 years ago

He says why in the lead up to the fight. They want to set up a scenario where they can goad Macreedy into a fight and "cop a plea" of self-defence. Obviously if the three of them pile on, that's impossible. Otherwise? It's a muscle-bound muscle-brained oaf against a skilled fighting man, one-armed or not. Great scene, best in the movie.