MovieChat Forums > A Star Is Born (1954) Discussion > What is the Catalina reference about?

What is the Catalina reference about?


I was just watching this film again, and was curious about the Catalina reference. When James Mason was at the Cocoanut Grove, looking over the clientele with the idea of picking up one of the girls for a "date," the waiter told James Mason to stay away from a particular young woman, expressively saying "Catalina" as glanced at her.

I really have no idea what was meant by this! And I felt sure the question had been asked previously here on the "A Star is Born" message board, but see that apparently a vast number of posts about this film have been deleted---including the one that answered my question. So---does anyone know what was meant in this scene?

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the waiter told James Mason to stay away from a particular young woman, expressively saying "Catalina" as glanced at her.

The word was "Pasadena."

This was questioned here before, and I don't believe anyone came up with an answer.

But, from the way the maître d' looks at the woman and says, "Leave it alone," I always felt the woman may have been connected to "the mob" in some way. The "Leave it alone" sounds like a warning to me.

Maybe it meant something in 1954 to insiders, but today, the scene is just a mystery.

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Man, do I feel like a moron! How did I misremember that quote?

Well, thanks for your input---so no one really knew what that was all about? I remembered the question had been asked here, but couldn't remember what any of the responses were...

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As an L.A. native, I can tell you this much: Pasadena was always - even independent of this film - code for stodgy, "old money" families in SoCal. Just the type of people who'd very much look down on a mere "movie actor," and who'd give a person such as Norman more trouble than he might be able to handle if he were to attempt messing around with one of their daughters (and who might very well be horrified if they learned she'd been "slumming" after hours at a show-bizzy place like the Grove).


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Thanks for the information! This is an excellent explanation for the oblique reference to Pasadena in "A Star is Born"---makes perfect sense in the context of the scene.

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Yes, Doghouse, that's what I always took it to mean - very conservative
area (especially back then).

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Indeed. And any number of those who were residents at the time of the city's incorporation were undoubtedly still around in 1954. We could imagine, just for fun, that "the girl in the green dress" could conceivably have been the granddaughter of, say, one of the founders of the Valley Hunt Club.


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There have occasionally been references to "Pasadena" types in other films. One that comes to mind is 1964's Fate is the Hunter, where Rod Taylor's fiancé (played by an uncredited Dorothy Malone) is called a "Pasadena heiress". Though not a native Californian, I've learned enough over the years from movies and California acquaintances to know that Doghouse's explanation is spot-on.

I'm watching the film now and was waiting to get a better look at Miss "Pasadena" again just to see what an example of that "type" was supposed to look like! Note that, in contrast to his otherwise unalloyed eagerness to fulfill Maine's wishes, not only did the maitre'd have no compunction about warning him away from her -- "Leave it alone, Mr. Maine" -- but Norman himself immediately lost interest!

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I remember Fate Is the Hunter, if not its Pasadena reference. Years since I've seen it, but I remember it being an intelligent film. Must revisit it soon. Fascinating topic, and one that hasn't been much explored, even in the midst of the popularity of forensic dramas (No Highway, a favorite of mine, is the only other one coming to mind with a similar "hook").

Frank Puglia made the most of those few minutes of his as "Bruno" in ASIB, and I especially enjoy the script's subtle commentary on what you've observed: the way a Hollywood minion - like a maitre'd, bartender, barber, tailor or whatnot - could be both privy to a star's secrets and predilections as well as to have garnered the trust necessary to candidly advise him. Rings very true.


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Among other hobbies (!) I run a classic movie every week during the summer at my club, and over the years I've shown Fate is the Hunter, No Highway in the Sky and The High and the Mighty to boot. Somehow movies about crashing planes, or those on the verge of doing same, resonate with audiences. Now why do you suppose that is? I expect next year I'll have to run Airplane!.

Have you read Shute's book, No Highway? Very good, though unlike On the Beach, I think in this case the film did the book justice.

I've "known" you for two hours, Doghouse, and already I can say of your final paragraph: an incisive observation! I love that scene with the always-reliable Mr. Puglia. One of those aspects of life, or of celebrity, that's so true yet in a way so counter-intuitive. But then they say no man is a stranger to his valet. Sadly, I've ever had a valet to test that maxim.

When I was bartending at around age 20 (at that same club above) I knew all my customers already and found out a lot more about them. I've written for the local newspaper for decades and many people have said I should write a book about everything I've learned. My standard reply is that I want to (a) avoid a libel suit and (b) stay alive. Also I don't want to have to move.

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No, I've never read that book of Shute's; goes right onto my list (thanks for the recommend). Good question about air disaster films. Have to ponder that. After you run Airplane, you should do Zero Hour, the 1957 Dana Andrews drama that Abrahams and the Zucker brothers used as their basis. If you've never seen it, it's a riot to witness the same plot - and so many bits seen in the later film - played in dead earnest.

Sounds to me that you learned early on during your bartending days the same thing that enabled Roddy McDowall to be everyone-in-Hollywood's best friend: they told him their secrets because they knew he'd keep them.


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I do indeed have Zero Hour. I saw that as far back as the 60s. What gets me is that ZAZ lifted whole sections of the dialogue virtually unaltered from the original, and what was serious and involving in one venue became absolutely hysterical in another. I think they missed a bit by not having a character akin to the guy played by Jerry Paris in ZH, the tiresome bore who entertained the little kid by drawing a face on his fist. I mean, in Airplane! someone could have put that lipsticked fist to better use.

Yes, think of all the great dirt Roddy took to the grave with him. Of course, that would be a good place for dirt, but even so....

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They could have gone all out and gotten Señor Wences. Could even have played himself, like Gloria Swanson in Airport 1975.

Don't you just love that Andrews' two other claims to flight film fame involve his colliding with the commercial liner piloted by Efrem Zimbalist Jr. in that film 15 years after Zimbalist had done the same to Andrews' commercial liner in The Crowded Sky? I admire casting directors with a sense of humor.

If you'll pardon a bit of name-dropping, I met McDowall once at an AFI open house in the early '70s, and years later used to bump into him occasionally at a video store in Studio City. We'd compare our selections as we stood in line to rent our LaserDiscs (which tells you how long ago that was). Warm, witty and elegant man (always immaculately dressed, and would arrive in his red Allante convertible - top down - with nary a hair out of place).


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I like your McDowall story. I gather you were part of the business, so naturally you'd have chances to encounter some famous folk. No name dropping involved!

My only claim in that direction is that my cousin was Dan Dailey. But unlike the rest of my family (mother, her parents, that side of the family), I never met him. But they used to stay with him regularly in California. It was funny when he co-starred with Ethel Merman in that awful 1954 musical There's No Business Like Show Business, because before she became famous Ethel worked in the same office with this same grandmother, and they were best pals. Don't know if they met up again in the 50s, though.

Yes, a few years back I put up a thread on the site of The Crowded Sky noting that bizarre "get-even" switcheroo between Efrem and Dana in Airport 1975 (actually a 1974 film, so only a 14-year difference!). I can't at all believe that this was mere chance. Clearly somebody at Universal had a soft spot for the earlier film, if not a bent toward irony. TCS has the phoniest plane landing I've ever seen. It looks like it was photographed on my dining room table using an old plastic model and the last remnants of a can of shaving cream to simulate the foam used to put out the engine fire. But it had very good music by Leonard Rosenmann, which certainly helped.

Ah, Señor Wences. Not only one of the few people to pass away on his birthday, but his 103rd to boot! April 20, 1896 - April 20, 1999. I remember the date because he shared a birthday with my wife and Adolf Hitler. Hey, you can't choose these things.

"'S'aw right? Right!"

(Actually, an old character actor named Dick Wessel not only had the same birthday but also died on it -- his 53rd: 1912 - 1965. What is it about April 20?)

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Dan Daily, huh? Unjustly underrated triple-threat man. He's featured - and has some of the funniest moments - in one of my three favorite MGM musicals, the delightfully cynical It's Always Fair Weather. Too bad you were never able to meet him.

I've met tons of celebs, but as with McDowall, the vast majority of such encounters happened to have nothing to do with my having worked in the business (that's L.A. for ya). In fact, during the years I worked on the MGM lot, the place was such a morgue, there was more chance of "seeing stars" in a restaurant, a supermarket or on the street.

Yours is an apt description of the Crowded Sky finale* (although that toy plane seen landing in the opening moments of Casablanca gives it a run for its money). I'm still pondering your query about films involving aviation, but I've always been a sucker for 'em (or those taking place on trains or ships for that matter). Don't quite know why; I actually hate traveling on mass conveyances (maybe because the reality of it is such a comedown from the glamour, romance and comfort depicted in such films). Both my parents had been private pilots, but that was before I was born, so I've no idea if that has anything to do with it. By the time I was growing up, both planes were gone and horses had taken their place, but I've very little affinity for westerns.

*Edited afterthought: the effect that has always really bothered me was the depiction of the collision itself. I think I've even averted my eyes once or twice when that moment arrives ("Ohhhh, I can't look at this").

- And another: if I'd taken the time to delve deeper into your comment history, I'd have seen your Crowded Sky/Airport '75 remarks, which I've now done (and enjoyed).

- And a final one: noticed the reference to Crack Up in one of the replies. You must catch this if ever you can. A Peter Lorre gem (as much espionage drama as anything) from his early, pre-Moto days at Fox, and strangely touching in its own way.

BTW, I wonder if you'd tell me something about your club and movie nights. At first, by "club" I interpreted your meaning as some sort of membership organization, but realized farther down from your mention of bartending there that you meant what used to be called a "night spot" (a bit of terminology I wouldn't mind seeing come back into vogue). There was a short-lived bar (around '79-'80) in the Silverlake area of L.A. that featured a weekly movie night, and it was great fun.


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I like It's Only Fair Weather all right, though even with Dan it's not one of my musical faves. I rather like the wistfulness, now, of having them meet up again in far-off 1955. But the garbage lid dance number is a hoot!

I believe I put in a goof on that film's page (I meant to, anyway) a few years back in which I noted an interesting error in the montage of the three soldiers' return home in 1945. There's a brief shot of an ocean liner, in the scene's context the ship that brought the men back, in New York harbor. Two things: first, the ship is heading the wrong way -- out to sea, not into port; second, it's the Andrea Doria, the famed Italian liner that sank after colliding with the Swedish liner Stockholm in 1956. But the Doria wasn't launched until 1951 and had its maiden voyage in 1953, so obviously couldn't have brought the troops home from Europe in 1945. (Apart from the fact it was an Italian ship!)

My grandparents (who lived outside of Phoenix from 1956 on, ex-New York) had an LP of Dan Dailey singing various songs, which I think my uncle now has. But the copy on the back of the album contained a bizarre "fact", claiming that Dailey received an Oscar nomination for his first film, playing a Nazi in The Mortal Storm (1940). My reaction was an articulately phrased, "Wha?" The Mortal Storm wasn't his first film, and he sure as heck didn't receive an Oscar nomination for his role in it. He did receive one, as Best Actor, for the 1948 film When My Baby Smiles at Me. My uncle once announced this false Oscar nomination to me, and I spent several days arguing with him before I finally produced enough evidence to convince him the record album was wrong. I mean, if you can't trust what's on the back of an LP sleeve, what can you trust?

I have to agree, the midair collision in The Crowded Sky was fake but pretty unnerving anyway. You do feel for the two guys who, thanks to Efrem's fast but wrong-headed thinking, signed their own death warrant by ducking under the airliner and jamming their canopy, making it impossible for them to bail out. On the other hand, it resolved their personal difficulties, which were getting a bit tedious.

Trivia question: who was the only performer in TCS ever to receive an Oscar nomination? No fair looking it up!

But it's fascinating that both your parents were pilots. Did they give it up after you were born because as parents they didn't want to take any unnecessary risks? Horses never intrigued me much, but as to westerns, I used to feel much as you do. But in the last 30 years or so westerns have moved toward the forefront of my favorite genres. Haven't surpassed 50s sci-fi, however.

I know of Crack Up but have never seen it, for some reason. Thank you for the recommendation!

I'm trying to think of some way of squeezing the nominal subject film of this site into this discussion again. Hmmm... Say! I wonder if Vicki and Norman ever flew for a weekend on Catalina? Aboard a Catalina flying boat? With Vicki belting out "26 Miles Across the Sea/Santa Catalina" for the passengers? And their Catalina swimsuits packed away for a good time?

Voilà! A star is (air)borne.

Saved! 

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I see you know your ships, too. That detail in IAFW has always slipped right past me. Puts me in mind of similar slip-ups I've noticed in other MGM musicals, such as the late '40s-early '50s vintage autos that can be seen in rear projection footage in Singin' In the Rain when Don is riding in Kathy's tin lizzie.

I won't even pose it as a trivia question, since I'm sure you know which noted film leading lady was among the passengers rescued from the Andrea Doria.

Now to yours: I'm gonna go with Keenan Wynn, if only because of the breadth of his film work (and his versatility), although I have no guess as to the film. I don't have any recollection of Andrews being nominated; perhaps Kerr (John, that is) was for Tea and Sympathy; can't think of a role prestigious enough for Francis; Fleming, Zimbalist and Kelly seem unlikely; Marty garnered a number of nominations, so perhaps Mantell's a possibility, but maybe not enough of a "name." I'll stick with Wynn.

No, I think my parents just figured the planes were too much expense and trouble by the time they started rearing we kids.

Oh: I've discovered Crack-Up is viewable on YouTube (not the optimal way to watch, I know). It has the routine trappings of a mid-'30s Fox "B" production, but it's a great showcase for Lorre (with able support from stalwarts like Brian Donlevy and Ralph Morgan).

Probably a safe bet about Norman and Vicki having a weekend at Catalina, although it would be a bit early for "26 Miles." She'd have likely warbled "Avalon" (Jolson/DeSylva/Rose).

I was there only once, in the late '60s; we took the old "big white steamer" over, and the seaplane back. Noise-eeee!. And the landing on water is the hardest I've ever experienced. BANG-bang-BANG-rattle-rattle-rattle...

Maybe they were smoother on those much larger clippers of the '30s.

But now I think of it, I'm not sure I like the idea of Norman cheaping out like that with Vicki after promising Honolulu to Lola. And we know what Bruno would have said: "Nnnno, Mr. Maine. Catalina. Leave it alone." (Howzat?)


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I always had an interest in ocean liners, and fortunately one of my good friends was a man named Frank O. Braynard, who was regarded as the world's leading authority on them, headed the American Maritime Institute, and was the author of many books on the subject. He was a fine artist and about 16 years ago we had him draw a picture of our summer house (I knew him from that community), which he'd do for friends. Well, when he came in with the finished sketch I was finally able to ask him a question. I showed him a brief scene in On the Waterfront, where Marlon Brando is sitting on his rooftop after finding the kid had killed his pigeons. Eva Marie Saint is telling him they should get out and go to a farm or somewhere, while Brando looks over toward Manhattan, across the Hudson River. There's a shot of about five seconds showing what he's looking at, which includes a liner embarking down the river on its voyage. I had finally paid attention one day and realized it was -- the Andrea Doria. Only this was just a chance shot: she happened to be heading down the river at the moment they shot that quick sequence. Mr. Braynard had traveled on the Doria, so I asked him if that wasn't the ship. He looked, then put me through my paces. "What year was this filmed?" "Well, 1954, but the scene may have been shot in '53." "When did the Doria make her maiden voyage?" "1953." "What's the only other ship it could have been?" "The Doria's sister ship, the Cristoforo Colombo." "And does it have the same lines as the Cristoforo Colombo?" "No." "So what ship is it?" "The Andrea Doria." "Right you are!" He always made you feel as though you were the expert. When he died at 91 a few years ago the Queen Elizabeth II stopped in mid-Atlantic and a memorial wreath was tossed off the stern in Frank's honor. Quite a tribute!

Anyway, I put that piece of Doria trivia on the OTW site a few years back. In the way that IMDb never reads duplicate entries I think someone else posted the same information later on, but I was always proud I'd beaten him to it! And that's the extent of my Doria-spotting in motion pictures.

My trivia question answer: it was in fact Joe Mantell, who did get a Supporting Actor nomination for Marty. He was actually a very good actor but never got a lot of great roles because he seemed so mousy or ratty or some other rodenty type of character. He starred in a couple of Twilight Zones and was very good in both.

Yes, I knew my allusion to "26 Miles" was five years too early, but "Avalon" didn't occur to me and would have been as apt. The first film I ran in my movie series this summer was Dreamboat, in which "Avalon" is the theme song for the silent movie pair played by Clifton Webb and Ginger Rogers. But it still didn't occur to me for my airborne stars.

I've never been to Catalina myself and would like one day to see it. Don't they limit development and so the population? I've read that shortly after he arrived in Hollywood in 1937 Ronald Reagan flew with friends to Catalina aboard a plane that went through a severe storm, a trip so nerve-wracking to Reagan that he resolved never to fly again. In the 1950s he had it written into his TV contract with GE that he would never be forced to take a plane to any of the company's plants where he was obligated to make appearances, so that all his travels had to be arranged around train schedules and cities not too far apart. It was not until 1966, when he was running for Governor, that his advisors finally convinced him that he had to fly to be an effective candidate. He discovered that aviation had made a few strides in the preceding three decades and found he enjoyed flying after all. I guess no one commented on the irony that he joined the Army Air Corps during the war, though he never flew and only made training films.

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Great story about your late friend. Interesting guy, especially in the way he induced you to review your mental process to test your conclusion.

Sort of what I was doing with myself - and sharing with you - when considering your trivia question. Except I came up with the wrong answer! I'd imagine most people might remember Mantell more readily from Chinatown or those Zone appearances, even if they don't know his name, or perhaps as the bird-hating motorist in The Birds who picks the wrong time to light a cigar.

Edit: Meant to add, I don't recall ever seeing Dreamboat, but I'm pretty sure I've heard "Avalon" as incidental music in at least a half dozen other films...just can't think of one at the moment.

Further edit: Just thought of one: I think Sam noodles with it when he first comes to Ilsa's table in Casablanca.

I think that's true what you say about Catalina, and I believe there's also a vehicle "quota;" even if you manage to acquire property there, you have to wait until a slot is open to bring a car over (at least that's what I understood 40-odd years ago. Our "rental car" was basically a four-passenger golf cart).

I don't think I've ever heard that story about Reagan. Reminds me a little of the funny one Capra told in his autobiography about Army Air Corps. Col. James Stewart losing his cool with the unflappable pilot during ceiling zero conditions after the war.

I know I said I'm up for a good gabfest any time, but I want to devote the proper attention to your PM, and so, need to address some neglected chores and errands before I do.

"Sooooon."
- "How sooooon?"
"Very soooooon."


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Yeah, I thought the most common form of transportation on Catalina was golf cart.

On Fire Island they limit the number of permitted vehicles (it's also a National Seashore), with the relatively few permanent residents in one category and contractors and the like in another. Golf carts are common for businesses, and bikes for everyone else, throughout the island's 18 or so communities, each vastly different from the others. I've rewritten our village's vehicle code often enough to know what a balancing act this is! My wife and I lived out there full-time for a couple of winters but never applied for a residential permit; we could park in a lot in the State Park about a mile away and hoof it if necessary, though usually we got rides in and out. They put you on a waiting list and it can take two years or more before your name reaches the top. We moved off to the mainland of Long Island before getting to that point.

Quite right, of course, about Sam noodling "Avalon" when Ilsa calls him over to the table. (After asking the waiter who the "boy" playing the piano was. Ye Gods!) It is a tune heard often in movies. By the way, you should see Dreamboat. It's very funny.

But look again -- it isn't Joe Mantell who lights the cigar while standing in that puddle of gasoline and blows himself up in The Birds. I once thought it was him too but when I checked it again I realized it was some other poor schnook. Mantell leaves the bar and we never see him again. The guy with the cigar is clearly not Mantell when you look closely (and anyway, he's getting out of his car, whereas Mantell would have been getting into his because he was driving off to San Francisco). I also once briefly thought it might have been Mantell who bumps up against Tippi's phone booth -- the overwhelmed guy being pecked (presumably to death) by the birds, blood running down his face; but that's not him either. No, Joe just disappears from the narrative. Which is too bad -- I'd liked to have learned his fate, as we learn everybody else's. Maybe he stopped at the general store to get himself a gun to wipe them off the face of the Earth.

The film's on TCM tomorrow night (Thursday, Nov. 20, 2014, for future generations), presenting us with another opportunity for mourning Joe and bestowing upon him the Mantell of greatness.

Wouldn't it have been apt if, for the lead role, Hitch had cast Gregory Peck? Today it might be Nicholas Cage. And he really should have set the action in Gatsby's fictional Long Island town.

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What an eagle-eye you are (keeping with our theme)! And of course your observation that he's exiting the car supports it. I guess it was not only the similar attire, but an assumption that this was Hitch's way of having the birds punish the character for those nasty things he said inside leading me to think otherwise.

And the puns! How wonderful to meet another who, like me, opposes all forms of pun control (and we'll have puns, puns, puns, till my daddy takes my keyboard away). I like the way you think. Ralph "Dick Tracy" Byrd could have had a bit role, if only he hadn't died a decade before shooting commenced. If Hitch had chosen to have a musical score, d'ya suppose he'd have gotten Wilbur Hatch? And if they'd done the Nicholas Cage remake early enough, who but Néstor Almendros for cinematographer?

I'd better get started on that PM before my puns get any more fowl.


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I've been sitting here mulling a response, posed like "The Thinker" by that famed sculptor Rodan, but have come up only with the notion of getting Walter Pigeon into the cast, and maybe doing a film about Robin Hood as a follow-up, sort of a beak into the future. But of course there could be no better director to whom to hitch our star than a man named Hitchcock. To produce, Tony Bill, under the aegis of Stanley Kubrick's Hawk Films, Ltd.

I'm going to tweet some friends about all this while they air Wings on TV tonight. Maybe some studio exec will buy our idea -- provided he's sufficiently gullible. I've always heard they're a bunch of turkeys so we have the chance to convince them the cost will be chicken feed while we go all out on our lark. Let 'em squawk afterward.

Oliver Niles, are you all a-flutter?

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Ding-ding-ding! We have a winnah!

Yep, I've chickened out.


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Nah -- you were the engine. I'm the caboose.

I did see the end of The Birds tonight, for one last wisequack.

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it was also a line that was about the Chandler Family.

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"Pasadena" may have been the code for women who looked white, but were not completely. Blacks called it "passing" for white and men were warned to "pass" such women over. Hence the code word "Pasadena" and the maitre's warning to leave that one alone.

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