Older men


Is it just me, or is Audrey Hepburn ALWAYS with strangely older men? Perhaps not so old in their actual ages, but she always looks as if she's in her 20s and they always look as if they're in their 40s or 50s. Especially with Linus in Sabrina... good God, it just seems *wrong.* Does anyone else have a problem with this? It always makes it harder for me to watch her films even though I love her as an actress.

Though her and Gregory Peck in Roman Holiday were perfect together, I think.

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You are right! Audrey Hepburn's playful innocent character does not match at all with Bogie's arrogance and overly masculine voice. That constipated smile, and always trying to show fake moral values such as "I do not need beautiful women in my life" attitude! He goes well only with Lauren Bacall. No doubt she was his 25 years younger real life wife. Btw Bogie was 30 YEARS OLDER than Audrey Hepburn.

But its not Audrey Hepburn's fault. Maybe not Billy Wilder's too. It was the trend of the 40's and 50's. The older men should have had a lot of contacts and pulled a few strings to make it difficult for the younger men to make it to the key roles. Also the public needed their old faithful granpas on the screen to let go of their money. Some people will kick my ar*e, but I feel, thats one big reason why a lot of Hitchcock's movies were also sore to the eyes.

From the 60's the scenario got a little better. One of Billy Wilder's reasonable castings was "The Apartment". Hitchcock's "Psycho" was also from the 60's and it had a far appropriate casting than his earlier movies. For Audrey Hepburn, in "My Fair Lady" she actually was older than her lover character played by Jeremy Brett, though it was not a key role.

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It's certainly a trend in her movies. Cary Grant wouldn't do Charade unless it was Audrey's character that pursued him, and not the other way around. They were older, but they were all screen legends; Bogart, Cooper, Fred Astaire, Cary Grant. That makes it easier to watch. And she had leading men closer to her age like Gregory Peck (one of the best looking men ever?), Peppard, Holden...And guys younger than her like Albert Finney and Jeremy Brett.

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What is the big deal about marrying older men. I don't find it wrong. I'm 21, I like a 33yr. old...is that so wrong? If so why?
We've grown up in a society where all our lives we've been grouped together with ppl of our own age whether through school or even at the movies...whether you're a child, teen, adult or senior...we're all grouped. And because of that we all have friends our own age we like to confide in...marrying someone older just seems weird, because we aren't used to that kind of enviroment. Perhaps marrying someone older is better...that way that person is already developed economically and you don't really have the burden of not having money to start off on. I don't find it wrong...perhaps because I admire someone older. People my own age are immature by nature. Sometimes I don't think they'll ever grow up.


*I could fill a thousand pages telling you how I felt and still you wouldn't understand...*

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May-December romances (age-gap love affairs) were not unique to the films of the 1950s. In fact, May-December romances were very common in life prior to the 20th century. It has only been in the last 75 to 100 years that the statistics began to lower to a small percentage amongst the population.

You can look at famous books in literature to see that May-December romances were once a common part of the social framework. Look at Jane Austen, Charlotte Bronte, and Charles Dickens to name a few. Another thing you can look at are high profile figures in history. President Grover Cleveland was 49 and married 21 year old Frances Folsom in the White House in the 1880s. President John Tyler was in his 50s and married a 20-something Julia Gardiner in the 1800s.

In the past, ALL age groups socialized together. There was no college age, young singles, couples with children, retirees, and widows/widowers boxed into categories and limitations to social outlets. People enjoyed and knew people of all ages and individuals mingled despite their stage of life. How sad we have done this to people now. Younger generations have been kept from learning a lot and older generations have been kept from enjoying many parts of life.

In more recent decades, age gap friendships and romances have become taboo. It is somewhat odd considering that it is totally related to a society's decision to pose a collective judgement on a particular form of socializing. What is bizarre is that May-December romances are not breaking ANY religious or legal codes. It is totally related to a society taking on a recent trend to hate this kind of pairing because "they don't like it". It is nothing more than a personal ick factor.

The 1950s were obviously the last decade to present these types of relationships in a positive light. A lot of it had to do with the male stars not passing the torch on to younger actors. However, it also had to do with the fact that society accepted May-December romances and saw them as plausible venues for romance.

Sabrina is a well made film and demonstrates that some women prefer an older and more established man. For those who do not understand it, it is not for you to decide the preferences of others and whether or not it is appropriate. Especially when such hostility has no foundation on which to stand except that it is not your personal cup of tea.

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[deleted]

In 1904 my 52 year old grandfather married my 18 year old grandmother. In 1942 my then 30 year old father married his second wife who was 15. In 1948 my 36 old father married my 21 year old mother (his first wife was close to him in age). On my mother's side, my great-grandfather was 37 when he married my 16 year old great-grandmother in 1885.

In their private lives, lots of those leading men did likewise. Cary Grant's last two wives were decades younger than he.

And they're still doing it--witness Michael Douglas.

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Great post, Nelly. Hopefully that will quiet some of the ignorant criticism.

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In the past, ALL age groups socialized together. There was no college age, young singles, couples with children, retirees, and widows/widowers boxed into categories and limitations to social outlets. People enjoyed and knew people of all ages and individuals mingled despite their stage of life. How sad we have done this to people now. Younger generations have been kept from learning a lot and older generations have been kept from enjoying many parts of life.

In more recent decades, age gap friendships and romances have become taboo. It is somewhat odd considering that it is totally related to a society's decision to pose a collective judgement on a particular form of socializing. What is bizarre is that May-December romances are not breaking ANY religious or legal codes. It is totally related to a society taking on a recent trend to hate this kind of pairing because "they don't like it". It is nothing more than a personal ick factor.


Brilliantly written. It's indeed pathetic that our increasingly bureaucratic and technocratic society tries to pigeon-hole people in boxes and then keep them crawling there for the rest of their livers.

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I'm 24, and I married my husband when I was 22 and he was 36. We are a good match, and everyone says so.

Funny thing is, people don't know he 14 years older than me until I mention it. They assume he's still in his 20s. When they find out, they get an interesting look on their faces (kind of like O_o ), as if the age difference completely changes their opinion of us as a couple. Age is all in the mind, I think, and my Dann is energetic and carefree while at the same time wise and serious when he needs to be. Best of both worlds.

I really liked this movie. I was routing for Linus the entire time :-D


Can't Stop the Signal - Proud fan of Firefly and Serenity

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-I'm 24, and I married my husband when I was 22 and he was 36. We are a good match, and everyone says so.

Funny thing is, people don't know he 14 years older than me until I mention it. They assume he's still in his 20s. When they find out, they get an interesting look on their faces (kind of like O_o ), as if the age difference completely changes their opinion of us as a couple. Age is all in the mind, I think, and my Dann is energetic and carefree while at the same time wise and serious when he needs to be. Best of both worlds.

I really liked this movie. I was routing for Linus the entire time :-D



-okay, i have nothing wrong with age differences, but this is silly. so what if people assume he's in his 20s? people used to assume i was much younger than i was, then i started to look my age. now i'm 35 and i look 35. i have grey hair and a *beep* bald spot. you think thats fun?

fact is, he's 36, and no matter how young he may appear to be (obviously dyes his hair), the fact is, he's not young. at all. he's almost middle aged. and i know from experience, that no matter how young he may act, truth is, by mid thirties, we all have creaky bones and groan more when we get up and have to put on a youthful face when in fact we have a lot more pains than we did ten years ago.

and the reason people probably assume he's younger than his is is because his wife is 14 years younger...

mind you, i can still attract 18 year olds, which is a very nice boost to the ego.

i just get tired of people being like "oh my hubby looks ten years younger" or "i look ten years younger" ... get off it. who gives a *beep*? what's wrong with being mid thirties and looking mid thirties? people are so obsessed with looks, it's nuts.

check out my music site below, btw.


"let's all clap hands!"
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I'm sorry to have somehow pushed a button, but the point of my post wasn't to point out that my husband didn't look his age. Heck, I don't even look my age. If fact, someone confused me for 16 two days ago. It's bound to happen when I am only 4'11" and I forget to wear my glasses.

The point of my original post was to point out how people will treat us one way when they think we are closer in age, and completely different when they discover the age gap, as if they were fine with the concept of "us" as a couple initially and then changed their minds afterwards.

And no, he does not dye his hair. He has gray hair, and it shows (and gray hair is a terrible indicator of age anyway. I know someone who's been covering up her gray head since age 14). He has aching joints, etc. I didn't say anything contrary. But people don't assume he's younger because I am younger. Heck, when I first met him at our workplace I asked him when he graduated high school. I thought he was somewhere around 26. He just simply doesn't look that much different than when he was younger, He practically looks the same as he did in college in the early 90's.

There's other things I could probably add, but I have a feeling you may not react to them well and would only shoot me down in the end.

Anyways, you can continue to feel the way you do, but you don't know our situation and if you met him you would understand why I say the things I do.


Can't Stop the Signal - Proud fan of Firefly and Serenity

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Actually, I will tell you a true story. I was friends with a girl. We had done a show in Montreal and we began contacting each other via emails. She was charming and smart (so I thought)... I guess she assumed I was younger. Anyway, at one point we agreed to meet for breakfast. I found out, through facebook, that she was 18. She found out i was was 33. We met and she was acting strange. I offered to pay for her bfast to be polite and invited her over for tea... she came for a full two minutes, bought our CD and left... never to write me again, until I pressed her to find out why she stopped our contact. She said it was because of my age, because I was older and hadn't disclosed that (I wasn't asked, for one thing... and she hadn't told me hers). She said she felt strange about the whole thing. I had no designs on her, especially once I found out her age, and I'm astonished that she would judge me in such a manner. That happened another time too, which I won't go into. Makes me either want to lie about my age or not disclose it at all because i don't want to be judged.

my band, which will make you cream yr jeans:
www.myspace.com/trikeaband

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Well, I tell you what. She was fickle. If she was truly attracted to you, your personality, your goals, dreams, etc, then age shouldn't have been a factor. with your experience, I can see now why you have an aversion to this subject.

Of course, now that I think about it, I have less of a problem with age because of how I was raised, and I might be an exception. My siblings are all my husband's age and older. My parents are in their 60's and 70's. I also spent some time in the hospital during my elementary years dealing with childhood cancer. All of those things can certainly age a person. I remember not quite fitting in well with my peers in high school.

Anyways, I know there are girls like me out there. We are under the general impression that guys in our age bracket simply aren't mature enough and don't have any clue what it is they want out of life. I think as women we perhaps reach that stage earlier than men.

My two cents.


Can't Stop the Signal - Proud fan of Firefly and Serenity

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Yeah. It was lame. I know that now I'm graying/ balding, I can't really lie about my age... perhaps 30 would cut it, but still... makes me wary. You think you know somebody and they don't judge you for something like that...

It had to do with (also) her fears (I believe). She was afraid that me, being older, I would try to "attack" her sexually, when that was the furthest thing on my mind. Those fears never came into play until she saw my age, and when we hung out (one time, after both of us discovered each other's ages) she was wary of me the whole time and misinterpreted things: me offering to pay, inviting her over for tea etc.

In some cultures and ALSO, I find, in other times in North America; say, the 50's and 60's, age was really NOT an issue at all when it came to friends/ even lovers. Pity there is so much judgement now.

-Stevie



my band, which will make you cream yr jeans:
www.myspace.com/trikeaband

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Yeah. It didn't used to be an issue. When I first watched Sabrina, I really liked it and was rooting for Audrey and Humphrey the entire time. Then I come on to this IMDB board and see all these complaints about the age difference. It never truly occurred to me.

When did this idea of age gaps being a bad thing start to emerge? What was the thought process behind it? Usually the reaction is bad only if the woman is still young. At what age do people stop looking at the age difference? My parents are ten years apart, but by that time my mom was in her 30s, so noone has noticed or cared.

If we judged by maturity level, and not by age, would there be less of a problem?


Can't Stop the Signal - Proud fan of Firefly and Serenity

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I agree. It's so phukking stupid that these people are so obsessed. grow up and realize that it doesn't matter people. IT DOESN'T MATTER! people love being judgemental. That's the problem.

my band, which will make you cream yr jeans:
www.myspace.com/trikeaband

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I think you have some health issues if you feel pained and creaky at 36.

My husband is 52 and fit as hell, no aches or creaks going on anywhere. You sound weirdly bitter, even with all these supposed 18 year olds you're picking up left and right.

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

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Ha. This was written so long ago! Anyway, now I'm 43 and I have a lovely 21 year old in my bed. I'm not bitter. It was the one experience with the 18 year old that was *beep* but at this point (recently single), I just act myself and sometimes end up meeting much younger women who like me for who i am. Now in hindsight, I guess I can understand why the 18 year old was so wary. I mean, 18 is really young. But she also had issues with things that happened to her with older men. So it wasn't me. It was projection.




http://stephenpaultaylor.net

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Most of Jane austen's heroines marry men who are only a few years older than they are. likewise most of Dickens's heroines marry young men. and in fact although marriages between old men and young women have always happened, there was always doubt about it being a good idea. there are many medieval comic tales for examle that make fun of the idea of May-december marriages (the Merchant's tale from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales for example).

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I know, I don't think it's that big of a deal. At least it wasn't a 40 year old man dating a 12 year old, now that's something else. Nothing is wrong with two ADULTS with each other, and Audrey Hepburn was an adult in this movie.

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Power2hope, I totally agree. I'm 23 & most of my friends are the same age, but the guys I've fancied are in at least their late 20s (now - I'm not saying I fancied 30-year-old guys when I was, say, 12, except for some of the older movie stars). My friends say, why can't you fancy someone your own age, but what is the big deal? As someone else (I never remember who said what when I go to reply to a posting!) said, it happens in literature such as Jane Austen - the men are usually about six-eight years older than the women - & loads of us would consider those heroes our dream men. I think it is only in the last few decades that people have started to question age gaps.

As regards Audrey & her men, I wouldn't have any problems with any of them, except Bogart. I rather like Linus as a character, the sort of stiff, uptight man who mellows (much better than David if you ask me - I think he's an arrogant git personally), but I think (as someone else said) Audrey's still got that air of innocence about her &, while he doesn't plan to fall for her, he seems a bit kind of predatory. All the other older men she's with in films - Gregory Peck, Fred Astaire, Cary Grant - are nice, unthreatening, but Bogart looks like he's about to attack her any minute.

Anyway, I love older men - they rule!

Catriona x


"Fate shuffles the cards and we play" (Schopenhauer)

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My first husband was 20 years older than me. It was perfect match. I've always been attracted to older men.

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power2hope,

21 and 33 is not the same *beep* thing as 26 and 55... come on. 30 years, buddy... thirty freakin years.

altho i hope when i'm that age i can bang some hot 26 year old!

"let's all clap hands!"
www.myspace.com/trikeaband

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I remember Cary Grant saying that he was uncomfortable with the fact that Audrey Hepburn was young enough to be his daughter.

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That's ironic of Cary Grant to say that, considering he later on starred with Grace Kelly in 'To catch a thief', and Grace Kelly was born in the same year as Audrey Hepburn.

You never know someone, until you step inside their skin and walk around a little - Atticus Finch

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That's ironic of Cary Grant to say that, considering he later on starred with Grace Kelly in 'To catch a thief', and Grace Kelly was born in the same year as Audrey Hepburn.

Great point. When Grant worked with Kelly, he was 50; when he worked with Hepburn, he was nearly 60, and perhaps his added age changed his perspective.

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[deleted]

If it is difficult for you to watch an Audrey Hepburn movie with the older man complex then I recommend you watch How to Steal A Million, it's wonderful and Peter O'toole is dazzling (plus her age!).

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[deleted]

I think it also seems 'wrong' to modern eyes partly because of feminist dogma.

Until the 1970s, women in general weren't expected to earn their own living, but to be supported by their husbands. They also couldn't achieve much social status of their own, so they had to get this from their husbands also. Therefore there was much pressure on women to marry older men who were wealthy and had established themselves in society.

Once feminism became more widespread in popular culture, it became anathema for many for a woman to rely on a man for money or status, so older man/younger woman relationships became less socially acceptable.

It still happens in Hollywood (eg Catherine Zeta Jones/Michael Douglas) because Hollywood is rife with nepotism. I'm not saying Ms Zeta Jones is not in love with Mr Douglas; but had he not been a successful Hollywood star, I doubt he would have got much past the first date.

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May-December romances are popular and don't necessarily bother me (even though it's almost always the man who is decades older than the woman) and I haven't really noticed that with Audrey - I love who she's paired with in Roman Holiday, Charade, etc. etc. - except in this film.

Bogey's fabulous but next to her the age difference was more noticeable than usual, in part because Audrey has that youthful, innocent aura about her.

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There are plenty of women who like older men. I don't really understand why so many people have such a problem with this. They act as if an age difference is a moral sin or something. Who is anyone to say that "this is wrong" except the two people involved. As long as both partners are of a legal age and they don't have a problem with the age factor, then why should anyone else?

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[deleted]

I'm always puzzled when people attack age gaps as somehow wrong. What some do is to confuse the issue of age gap with the issue of a man leaving his comparably aged wife for someone younger. I can understand objetions to that.

But in this case - and in many others - the man simply didn't marry at ALL until he was older - so what right has anyone to say that he shouldn't marry someone much younger who is of, as you say, "legal age"? Obviously, it's up to them.

By the way, I think much of the age gap thing in the 1950s was really just Hollywood economics.

Many of the older female stars who had made big names in the 1930s, had decided to slow their careers down due to marriage and children (not all by any means, but many) - Irene Dunne and Jean Arthur, Claudette Colbert and Vivien Leigh, Jeanette MacDonald and Constance Bennett, Ann Harding and Ruby Keeler, Ginger Rogers and Paulette Goddard and Myrna Loy - all of them big stars in the 1930s - none of them big stars by the mid-1950s.

Other big female stars just had a harder time as the 1950s went on: Joan Blondell's parts kept getting smaller. Joan Crawford's pictures kept getting worse. Bette Davis actually advertised for work! Barbara Stanwyck had to reinvent herself as a western heroine. Even Katherine Hepburn had a harder time.

But the male stars just kept plowing on - and the studios felt they had invested ENORMOUSLY in their image, had publicized them, created vehicles for them for decades. So suddenly Gary Cooper, Humphrey Bogart, Dick Powell, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Clark Gable, Tyrone Power, Robert Taylor, Gregory Peck, William Powell, Frederic March, Bing Crosby, Jimmy Cagney, George Brent, Fred MacMurray, Robert Young, Franchot Tone, Edward G. Robinson, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda, Jimmy Stewart - did'nt have any natural counterparts in terms of age.

And to make them seem younger, vital, the studios decided to pair them with actresses who were much younger. Thus:

Grace Kelly opposite Gary Cooper (High Noon), Cary Grant (To Catch a Thief), Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra (High Society), Alec Guinness (The Swan), Jimmy Stewart (Rear Window), Ray Milland (Dial M for Murder), Bing Crosby again and William Holden (The Country Wife),

Audrey Hepburn opposite Gary Cooper (Love in the Afternoon), Cary Grant (Charade), Fred Astaire (Funny Face), Burt Lancaster (The Unforgiven), Gregory Peck (Roman Holiday), Humphrey Bogart and William Holden (Sabrina).

Leslie Caron opposite Fred Astaire (Daddy Longlegs), Gene Kelly (An American in Paris), Mel Ferrer (Lili), Louis Jourdan (Gigi), even Maurice Chevalier (and Horst Buchcholz) in Fanny.

Carroll Baker opposite Karl Malden and Eli Wallach in Baby Doll, Jimmy Stewart in How the West Was Won (in which she has a son - George Peppard - who is older than the actress!), Clark Gable (But Not for Me),

Sophia Loren opposite Cary Grant and Frank Sinatra in The High and the Mighty, opposite Clark Gable in It Started in Naples, Cary Grant in Houseboat.

Suzy Parker opposite Gary Cooper in Ten North Frederick, Cary Grant in Kiss Them For Me,

You could write the same of who co-starred with Marilyn Monroe, Lauren Bacall, M
Maggie McNamara, Jean Peters, Doris Day, Deborah Kerr, Cyd Charisse, Dortohy McGuire - huge age gaps throughout the 1950s.

At the beginning of the 1960s, things changed completely - and as another wrote on this thread, Hepburn was soon starring with Peter O'Toole, with Albert Finney, with her own generation!

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Throughout history, May-December romances and and marriages were common for a very big reason: women tended to die in childbirth or of childbirth complications far more often than they have for the last 100-150 years or so. I've seen old graveyards that had the husband's tombstone, and lined up next to his, tombstones for 3 or 4 wives. Since improvement of health care for pregnant and newly-delivered mothers, this danger in women's lives has been removed for the most part.

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No problem - she was with guys closer to her age in the 1960s (Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., Peter O'Toole, George Peppard, Albert Finney).

But I actually like seeing her with older guys - including Gary Cooper in Love in the Afternoon.

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[deleted]

It was and is a sign of the times, but it still goes on in Hollywood in the present day. If the older man is good looking, chances are he'll be with a much younger woman. And, it rarely is the other way around.

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Audrey had the happy accident of looking younger than her age but having the grace and maturity of someone beyond her years. Pairing her with older men made her seem like more of an ingenue, but I don't think it ever leveled at seedy or inappropriate. The movies of that time knew how to strike a delicate balance.

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