MovieChat Forums > Executive Suite (1954) Discussion > America before the romneys of the world ...

America before the romneys of the world took over


This is when we were a great manufacturing country before companies like Bain Capitol starting selling our companies down the river and shipping our jobs to china

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As a board member brought in from the outside for his financial "expertise", Romney would have voted for Shaw, waited for the company to decline because of Shaw's short-sighted and self-destructive policies, then bought it up, fired half the employees, cut salaries and benefits, then sold it to China, making hundreds of millions at both ends. He could've taught George Caswell a thing or two about profiting -- or is it profiteering? -- from a situation.

No wonder he lost Pennsylvania.

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Caswell was an amateur compared to the Romneys of the world. Romney was a ruthless, unapologetic mega-profiteer and sadly only one among thousands like him. And to think he was the least frightening of the Republican candidates.

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No argument here -- especially about your second observation. Not dissimilar, come to think of it, to the various possibilities for the presidency of Tredway Corporation...except that while each of them had his flaws, none was an unqualified lunatic.

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And, here is why the GOP lost the election: Idiots like you.

Do you even know what Bain does?

What they do is buy out failing companies and build them back up again, to make them profitable again. That is what they do.

At no point do idiots like you even wonder why companies like the ones Bain buys out fail in the first place. At no point do you even wonder why Barack Obama bailed out GM, which is essentially what Bain does. But, unlike Obama, Bain uses their own money. At no point does it ever cross your minds that business conditions here are not conducive to productive companies who don't want to invest their revenues into buying politicians to crowd out the market, but who want to compete honestly. At no point does it cross your minds the effects unions have on the costs of doing business.

Why do companies go overseas? To find cheaper labor pools. Do you really think it's wise to pay some union employee $50/hour to do a job that anyone fresh out of high school could do with a few weeks of training? Don't you consider that this might have an effect on the end price of the product or service? Put yourself in the position of the guy running a company, and consider the logistics of running it.

You might contend that paying employees less money is a bad thing, but let me ask you all a question: Is it better for everyone that there be low prices, or high wages?

It's a trick question.

The answer is low prices. But everyone naturally wants high prices for their products or services. Employees are no different than a company in that regard.

To compete, companies, and employees, must offer the best products or services a the lowest prices possible, or they begin to fail. Now, for those of you who can't think very well thanks to our public education system (which needs to be scrapped), if you allow the free market to work, what you'll eventually get is a much higher standard of living for the costs. Which is what we've been having in America until socialism and union cronyism and mercantilism became something of the norm.

Ask yourself why, today, a DVD player can go for $30. I remember when they first came out in 1996 costing $10,000.00. It's not just that technology improved, which is a part of it, but why did it improve? Because it was allowed to. The electronics industry is mostly self-regulated thanks to ISO agreements and UL standards. No government busy-body is involved anywhere, and there are no unions to be found. Nowadays, everyone has access to such devices, and more.

I realize that this is something that, well, you probably haven't thought of. It's easier and more pleasant to think that your troubles are to be blamed on someone else. After all, it lets you off the hook.

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First, when you start off calling people of whom you know nothing "idiots", you've gone a long ways toward discrediting yourself and your arguments.

It so happens I was a business owner. (Retired.) I had lots of people working for me -- some unionized, some not. Yes, there are issues with unions. So what? Does this make those in the management of big businesses fair and just and honest? Obviously you know nothing about the real world. I always had good relations with my employees, union or not, because I treated everyone fairly and equitably. So do many other business owners. Unfortunately, I know a lot of business people who behave just the opposite...and as a rule, the bigger the company, the worse the behavior.

Look as the recent case of Hostess. Yes, the unions bear some responsibility for the company shutting down. But what about the executives? They ran the place. They're the decision-makers. It's their misjudgment and mistakes that took the firm in the direction of unprofitability, to the point that not even firing workers or cutting back on benefits could rescue the company. And not only were they paid many times the wages of the people who actually did the labor, after the bankruptcy their attorneys went to court asking that the company be allowed to hand them bonuses in addition to their very high (and uncut) pay -- allegedly because only in that way could the company have quality people on hand to supervise its liquidation. This would be bizarrely laughable if it weren't so dastardly.

This is the problem with so much business today: the people at the top suffer no loss of income or benefits, and in fact continue to profit even from a failing company, while those below are fired or, at best, forced to cede salary and benefits just to keep a bare job. Since 1981, the income disparity in this country has risen several hundred percent, with the earnings of the lower 98 or 99% remaining essentially flat as a percentage of GDP, while those in the upper echelons have seen their real incomes skyrocket.

Unions were set up to protect workers against the excesses of corporate owners. If you know any history other than the selected kind, there was a time, within the living memory of many people, when some companies hired thugs to shoot striking workers, scabs and private police to beat them up, and they gave their workers precisely what they, the companies, wanted to. Sure, years later unions often got out of hand and, like any large organization, some became corrupt and a problem themselves. But this arrogant and lazy predilection of mindless people to just "blame the unions", as though no one else was responsible for a company's problems, is ridiculous. The situation is far more complex than that, though that fact may not suit your mindset...or, to use your phrase, it never crosses your mind.

Your naive (or just dishonest) claim that businesses just want to compete honestly is laughable. Yes, obviously, they would prefer not to pay a cent more than they absolutely have to -- for anything. But they routinely spend millions in trying to influence the outcome of elections, not just abroad but (especially) in the U.S. Why? Out of idealism? No. Because they want people in office who will give them what they want -- massive corporate and personal tax breaks, favorable trade policies, "incentives" and the like, all on the public dole. You blithely toss around the word "socialism", but you have no objection to corporations and those who run them being showered with government money and favors. The Koch brothers spent something like $400,000,000 to defeat Obama and other Democrats (all wasted). Why not take, say, half of that and help create jobs and industries? Are you really so stupid or disingenuous that you believe they and other billionaires spent all that money purely out of a selfless and idealistic concern for the economy and middle class?

Bain Capital? It's you who needs some education. Bain does not "use their own money" to bail out companies. That is preposterous, and a lie. It uses borrowed money, from the banks. Its own risk is small because before they take over a company they assess its worth carefully and know what they can get back in return -- either from saving the company, or by selling it off. Bain collects at both ends -- they get a fee for coming in as well as a fee when their services end -- and they make all these tens of millions regardless of the outcome of their efforts. Succeed or fail -- or succeed temporarily -- Bain makes money. Bain does not suffer. When Mitt Romney boasted about job creation, he was speaking solely and exclusively about Bain. Sure, he created jobs in his own firm. They created nothing, sold nothing. They provided so-called services to others in trouble, and to accomplish that they routinely laid off workers permanently, cut benefits and salaries to the remaining workers (but not salaries or bonues of executives), and, if necessary, broke the companies up and sold them off, often to foreign firms or countries. Yes, somebody profited. The execs at the "rescued" company. Bain. But not the vast majority of people who depended on such firms for their livelihoods. They're out in the cold, and for them, there are no golden parachutes or bonuses for failing to perform their jobs.

Bain is no different from similar firms. Even Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum, hardly liberals, attacked Bain for its predatory practices last year. Bain never created a single job in the companies it took over, only for itself. And even Romney admitted that Bain often had companies that failed anyway (and was still paid handsomely for its services). Your notion that Bain made all its clients strong and prosperous is false on Romney's own word.

As for GM, Romney was always very loud in opposing the government bailout of the industry. And as usual, he flip-flopped on his position, even lying about what he had previously said. In 2009 he said that the auto companies should go bankrupt. Then, in 2011, he switched and said that companies such as his should have been the ones to provide financing -- knowing full well that no single firm, or even consortium of firms, could have mustered anywhere near enough capital to rescue GM and Chrysler. (Other firms in the same field said such a private bailout would not have been remotely possible financially.) Then, briefly last May, he claimed that Obama had followed his, Romney's, plan in bailing out the industry! Even for him that was one whopper too many, and after a hail of criticism he never repeated that absurd statement. Regardless of Mitt's zig-zagging "expertise", the bailout worked.

There are no easy answers for our economy. Some measure of blame can be assigned to almost anyone for its faults. But while you're busy calling people who don't agree with your one-sided and simplistic screeds "idiots", the fact is that corporations do not believe in shared sacrifice. It's the people at the bottom who always suffer the most, who earn the least, are asked to accept less, while the people in charge -- the ones who created the problems in the first place, or who, as leaders of the company, are at least responsible for them -- who continue earning their high salaries, lose nothing in benefits or income, and still collect bonuses even when they've conspicuously failed at their job -- namely, making their company profitable and successful.

I was lucky: I was an ethical businessman who worked with rather than against the people who worked for me (at any level), and our business thrived. I never fired a single individual or had a serious business dispute. I took less pay when money was tight. I got along fine. Many of my friends were similarly successful in operating the same way. We acted this way not merely out of a sense of fairness but because we all realized that over the long term this was the best and most profitable way to do business -- we profited, as well as those we employed. If the upper echelons of all business behaved in such ways, we'd have few problems. Unfortunately, they don't. Romney may not be the poster boy for selfish -- and self-defeating -- business behavior, but he was part of the problem.

As for saying that Obama a socialist and all that other crap, that only proves you're someone without a clue as to what real socialism is.

If you genuninely believe in untrammeled capitalism, and in the honesty and good faith of every person who wields great economic power, then do away with all the subsidies and tax breaks and supports and all the rest that large businesses and the people who run them so desperately try to keep and expand. Let them truly rise or fall on their own, unaided. Let them receive raises or bonuses only if they perform successfully, not for overseeing failure. Quit firing only the low-level workers and start at the top. In short, let them earn their rewards. Let those who bring their companies to bankruptcy or decline pay in losing their jobs, their benefits, their bonuses. Stop simplistically blaming "the unions" and accusing all the other boogeymen. Then we might see some real growth in this country.

Of course, just blaming unions or high wages or other things lets you off the hook for having to actually think about the entire situation in factual terms. Much easier for you to attack some ideologically convenient targets.

Executive Suite had it right, 59 years ago. It's a lesson all of us, to one degree or another, still need to learn.

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Great post, hobnob



This post brought to you by The Yoyodyne Corporation

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Say, thank you very much, timmy. Very kind and thoughtful of you to take the trouble to write, and your compliment is much appreciated. (I didn't know what to expect in response to that post!)

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Why, exactly should we believe anything in your post about yourself???

This is the internet you know, more anonymous than an AA meeting.

Personally, everything you wrote about yourself is BS

You really sound like a union slug

You don't have to stand tall, but you have to stand up!






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So, there's no reason to believe anything I said because the internet is anonymous, therefore you know, for a fact, that everything I wrote about myself is "BS".

Some logic.

What you think about someone you know nothing about is irrelevant to me personally, since you are irrelevant to me personally. You're entitled to believe what you wish. Your uninformed opinion doesn't change the facts, and your gratuitous insults betray a closed mind and aversion to the truth.

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You didn't have facts, you wrote fiction

In a world where a carpenter can be resurrected, anything is possible.





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You come back over a year later to write that?

Pathetic, vacuous and ignorant is no way to go through life, though it apparently makes things comfortable for you.

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I think I love you a little.

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hobnob, I wish a lot of people could read your reply with an open mind. The country seems to be going crazy. It is good to read something that makes sense and isn't a "us against them" world.



* Who is Keyser Soze?*

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Thank you, jenny. Things are more bizarre today than they were even two years ago. We've gone from Mitt to Nitwit and now we're supposed to choose a President from, among others, two grown men having an argument over their wives' looks. Which is, I suppose, an improvement over fights concerning the size of their hands and what they can do with them.

It's not just the candidates, inadequate and unprincipled though some of them are. The news media, determined to do everything they can to help lower the level of discourse even further, give free rein to all this nonsense, and then stand aside with wide eyes and open arms asking, "How did this happen?"

The introspection, the desire to do better, the will to work together, even the ability to acknowledge an opponent's honesty, that was once an ideal most people in business, politics and elsewhere usually tried, imperfectly but with some good intention, to live by for the betterment of all, are now all but gone. We don't need to romanticize the past or delude ourselves into believing that in years gone by everyone was a paragon of honesty and good will to understand that we have nonetheless lost some essential societal bonds. And the result is, as you put it so aptly and succinctly, "the country seems to be going crazy". With no end in sight...at least, no good end.

Nothing as neat or satisfactory as the happy conclusion to Executive Suite, I'm afraid.

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Awesome answer. I was a business major and you covered all of the points I would have, except from personal experience!

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WyldeGoose, good effort but likely in vain. For most of the posters preceding yours, ignorance is bliss.

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You are an idiot. Romney has done more good for people within his local stake than you've done for everyone that you ever met.

LL

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If by "his local stake" you mean Romney's own company, Bain Capital, you'd be right. They made out like bandits, collecting at both ends, regardless of whether the companies they were brought in to "rescue" survived or not. For the people working at the companies they were supposed to help, Bain and similar outfits started by laying off workers, outsourcing jobs and slashing benefits...and with no guarantees any of these steps would in fact save the remnant of the company. And if the company failed or was sold off, Bain profited from that too.

Romney just did what a lot of people have done in recent decades: instead of actually producing anything or expanding wealth, they were concerned first, with themselves; a distant second, with their client corporation; and third and last, essentially not at all with the jobs of the people who worked for these client firms. This is the principle reason why Romney opposed the "bailout" of the auto industry in 2009. He argued that the automakers should be allowed to go broke and then be reorganized by professional takeover companies like his -- all the while knowing full well that there was nowhere near enough private capital available to even begin to restructure those industries. His goal was to get a piece of it for himself and profit while the American automobile industry -- his father's old bailiwick -- was broken up and sold off, at the loss not only of hundreds of thousands of jobs but with the further decimation of the American industrial sector.

The massive income disparity in this nation began under Reagan and his tax policies and has continued for 35 years with few variations, while people's purchasing power has declined and only to so-called "1%" have thrived. Republican leaders press for even more of the same, conning the tea partiers who have blindly elected people opposed to many of their own demands (saving Medicare and Social Security, prosecuting Wall Street for the 2008 crash and so on). This is one reason a demagogic ignoramus like Donald Trump has won the GOP nomination this year: he's called the GOP out on their deceptiveness and ridden the wave of TP discontent over the conventional conservatives who only want to give yet more breaks to the wealthy on the false claim that this will stimulate "job creation". It hasn't. One has only to look at a state such as Kansas to see how such policies have wrecked a state's economy. Not that Trump would seriously disturb this ideology or these policies; his own record is full of bankruptcies, bad deals and frauds and thousands of people swept aside by his ego and incompetence. Still, some people have fallen for his line and think he at least offers the chance of something different for them. The fact that he's monumentally unqualified on every conceivable level doesn't matter to some people.

Anyway, in Executive Suite terms it's the Shaws of the corporate world who have indeed triumphed over the Wallings. Corporations today pursue money, not productivity; greed, not raising all economic boats; they think of immediate gratification and not prospering for tomorrow. This is one reason why the US has been losing its economic edge to shrewder and more ruthless powers who work with the long-term in mind.

And really, calling someone an idiot isn't much of an argument for one's opinions. And by the way, I happen to have benefited from Reagan-Bush style tax policies. But I'm not quite so selfish or stupid not to see how they've undone so much of our economy through their inherent unfairness and delusional economic theories.

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Thanks for posting on this thread, Hobnob. Executive Suite is now a time capsule of American corporate life of more than a half-century ago, and I came here to understand a thing or two about how much things have changed (not that I don't know a few things already). You did an admirable job of explaining not only how much things have changed, but why, and my opinion of you has gone way up as a result.

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tel, all I can do is say thank you for those very generous remarks, and taking the time to write them. Especially coming from you, with your knowledge and insights on so many things, yours is a most valued compliment.

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You're welcome Hob . I hate it when an interesting thread goes mean-spirited. There's no need for that. This is where I really do get sentimental about the good old days of the IMDB. Everyone was so much better behaved back then. It was nice to see you jump in with good manners.

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It was nice to see you jump in with good manners.


Oh, I have my ill-mannered moments!

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Well, we can all go there, and on the IMDB the temptation is greater than ever. There's so much provocation.  

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Provocation indeed. Way back in 2012 we thought a predatory businessman like Mitt Romney was terrible. Now we long for those good old days! (Well, almost.)

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I can't stand Mitt Romney, but whatever else he may be he's not crazy. Trump frightens me for his personality more than any ideology he puts forth,--such as he can be said to have one.

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I have no use for Mitt, but he's intelligent and operates in the real world. Trump's personality is alarming enough. Couple that with his abysmal ignorance, supercilious arrogance, rampant dishonesty, piggish demeanor and thuggish impulses, and this is an unmitigated disaster awaiting the world.

An old acquaintance here on IMDb (whom I haven't run across in almost two years, I believe) was a very nice guy with absolutely loopy ideas about history and liberals vs. conservatives; in his mind, liberalism equates with dictatorship and conservatism with freedom, so much so he considers Hitler a liberal because he used the word "socialist" in his party and the fact that he was a dictator, which this person insists is merely liberalism in another, inevitable, form. Anyway, he told me back in 2013 or so that he honestly believed that the country would collapse because of Obama, that by the time his term was scheduled to end on January 20, 2017, the United States would have long since ceased to exist. This is insane but he very sincerely believed it. I'm not sure of the cause of our national demise -- war perhaps, but economic ruin followed by foreign subjugation of a country too weak to resist also seemed a likely possibility. Regardless, I offered to bet him that the country would still be here on January 20, 2017, but I don't remember if we formalized the bet. Perhaps he's gone off line in anticipation of the impending apocalypse, with so little time to go at this point.

Until now, I thought such ideas delusional in the extreme -- even unpatriotic. But with Trump.... Well, I have to wonder whether we'll be around by the time his term rolls to its expected end, January 20, 2021.

Oh, for the simplicities and certitudes of 1954 Eisenhower America!

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Romney and Trump are, or rather were, children of privilege, which I don't hold against them but it does make for a different perspective and different life experiences from the rest of us. From what I remember of Romney when he was governor of my state he pretty much made it on his own,--help from dad early on maybe--he didn't take over a family business. He moved to Massachusetts, made, for good or ill, his life and career as he saw fit.

My sense of Trump is that of a spoiled brat. Unlike Romney, who's not himself a particularly good speaker, he's incapable of being articulate on any subject I've never heard him hold forth on. Romney at the very least sounds professional. Trump doesn't, to my ears, sound like he know what he's talking about when he knows what he's talking about . But enough with the comparing of these two.

Trump is really too independent to be president; for the modern age anyway. There's nothing of the team player about him. He bloviates, but can he work cooperatively, listen to other people, learn from others, sit down and take advice? Even the presidents, the great ones, with egos the size of Jupiter, were capable of that.

Franklin Roosevelt is a case in point. He had a good education but was no intellectual, had vast executive experience, but there was much he didn't know,--about economics, foreign policy, agriculture, business--and learned as he went along. He made grievous errors and could be petty, as in his Supreme Court "packing" plan. FDR was a nasty piece of work in many respects. He was imperious, bigoted and a dreadful snob, and yet at his best he rose above it all.

But Roosevelt was made of presidential timber, and this is lacking today. Trump doesn't have it, or if he does he's keeping it a huge secret. I don't sense it in Hillary, either; nor, frankly, in Bernie Sanders. Colin Powell is a man in whom I sensed that kind of potential, and I think he'd have made a good, moderate Republican president, and that he'd have been a unifying figure, maybe even enjoyed an Eisenhower level of success. But it wasn't meant to be. We didn't luck out, haven't done so recently for a very long time where presidents are concerned.

We're stuck in a negative place: the people who have the "right stuff",--and I believe they do exist, that they're out there--are too sane and rational to want to put up with all the madness that goes into running for POTUS, from the fund raising, the "vetting", and from being viewed as if under a microscope. Those who do want to be president are, as one might expect, either corrupt, crazy or incompetent.

Nothing more to add but argh!

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Hi Hob! I think I may be the guy you're talking about. Slight change in my IMDb ID may have occasioned my apparent disappearance (technical issues) a year and a half ago. I'm still active here, and my views have not changed since then ("delusions" have a life of their own, I suppose), however, your representation of my "loopy" views contain some awkward distortions. Liberals have a tendency to do that. In your case, I'm sure this was not intentional. You are a "nice guy", too.

As to the "bet", I'm a little foggy about that, as well. I doubt quite seriously that I would have provided a date for the completion of a national suicide. We are well on the way though, as I predicted, to that "inevitable end". I'm gratified you too have a sense of it ("not sure of the cause of our national demise"), except I don't believe it has anything to do with a newcomer such as Mr. Trump. He is, rather, a reaction to it. Mrs. Clinton holds the key to the inevitability of its finalization. Don't vote for her.

Btw, I don't really believe the "simplicities and certitudes of 1954" were really all that simple. More like America was more aware of its origins, identity and Constitutional prerogatives than it is today. Very sure of that, considering the energy you liberals have spent on changing all those things throughout the past sixty years. And, let's face it, our competent and efficient federal government had less to do then. I agree, Ike didn't have to certify the price, time and bed-side manner of the surgeon selected for my aunt Gladys' gallbladder operation.

Anyway, it's nice to reconnect. Hope all is well with you and your family.

P.S. -- Hitler wasn't a liberal -- but there are similarities in methodology, the need for a command and control economy (socialism), and in the yen for a GREAT BIG central authority ever poised to solve all our problems -- including what makes a real boy and what makes a real girl and the correct bathroom labeling required for the usage of same. You know -- that "Jews verboten" kind of thing.

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Hi cfewente,

I did know of your new IMDb name as we've talked occasionally since you adopted it, but it's been a while. I too hope all is well with you, and my very best -- and sincerest -- wishes for all good things for you and yours. (Things are not so good on my side, but that doesn't matter.)

You are indeed the person I was referring to, and if I misrepresented anything you said or believe, I apologize for it. Though misrepresentation (intentional or otherwise) is not, I must inform you, a liberal monopoly. Plenty of conservatives lie and distort. I'd take many of your comments more seriously if you ever allowed that conservatives sometimes act dishonorably or dishonestly, as of course they do -- if for no other reason than that they're human beings, and all human beings act in less-than-forthright ways at times.

You did tell me in an exchange someplace here (I don't remember which film board) back in 2013 that you didn't believe the US would survive to the end of Obama's term. (I should say, to the end of Obama's scheduled term -- January 20, 2017. Obviously, if the entire country literally came to an end prior to that, that date would be the end of Obama's term and, therefore, the country would have survived until "the end" of his term!) I was so astonished at that statement that I asked you to clarify it -- did you literally mean that the country would come to an end: not the end of Constitutional government and the usual conservative hyperbolic claptrap, but the literal end of its existence. You said that yes, that was indeed what you meant. You were rather imprecise about the form this would take -- maybe a cross between Red Nightmare and The Postman, or perhaps The Road and On the Beach -- but whatever, you made it plain that you really did believe the United States of America would literally cease to exist before 2017.

We never made an actual bet about it (since, among other things, if you won I'd never be able to pay you) but I think we made a light, unserious gentleman's bet, just to see what would happen. In any case, as I write this it's turned October 6, 2016, leaving only 106 days before the U.S. of A. implodes per your expectation. If this happens, rest assured that in my final moments I'll be thinking of you and what a fool I've been. But much in the way that religious cult con artists bilk people out of their money by predicting doomsday, and when it fails to arrive on the promised date conveniently push it ahead a couple of years, so you seem to have delayed the apocalypse until Hillary's time. I presume, however, that if Donald Drumpf wins all will be saved, and peace and serenity will reign over the land as the Donald (in the words of a friend of mine, an ardent Trump supporter) "gets America squared away within 90 days." (That was this woman's reply when I asked her what, specifically, Trump would do as President. Not much of a policy statement, but then, Drumpf's supporters aren't expecting much in the way of policy, just lots of presidential venting.)

I am voting for Clinton, of course. I've never been a huge fan butt when when lunatics on the right (abetted by cowardly mainstream rightists in the GOP terrified of alienating their psychotic base) accuse you of murder, along with piddling crimes like fraud, theft and treason, you must be doing something right. Funny how so many people on the right claim a monopoly on morality and patriotism yet continually act in un-Christian and unconstitutional ways.

I actually think that on a few issues Trump is a bit less bad than the bulk of the GOP candidates, such as Little Marco and Lyin' Ted (and who invented those monikers?), but he's so manifestly unsuited by temperament, training and knowledge for the presidency, and so unqualified by any achievement in his life, that it's appalling that so many people blindly support him...especially since his lies, business ineptitude, bankruptcies, coarseness and assorted disgusting personal qualities and prejudices would normally disqualify such a person from honest conservatives' favor. Most Republican leaders back him because they know the rank-and-file will take revenge on them later on if they don't, but it's pretty obvious that few want or expect him to win. Far better for them to get Hillary, whom they know they can work with and take pot shots at for the next four years. Besides, with Hillary in the White House 2018 will be another big Republican win, as were 2010 and 2014. The GOP has a lot more to gain from a Trump loss than a Trump win.

My comments on the simplicities and certitudes of 1954 had nothing to do with you and were facetious -- a comment on how so many of the complexities of '54 seem so manageable by today's standards. But don't hand me that "you liberals have been eroding the Constitution" stuff. Conservatives are great ones for loudly mouthing platitudes about "freedom" and "the Constitution"...but only when it's freedoms and portions of the Constitution they like. The Second Amendment? Oh, that's an absolute. The First, Fourth, Fifth and a few others? Mmmm, not so much those, as that record of the past 60 years makes abundantly plain.

Now, you and I are never going to agree on anything political, so I have no intention in engaging in a fruitless discourse, especially since we can't even agree on the basic facts. That makes arguing the merits of one policy over another rather difficult. I'm sad to say we've almost always talked politics at cross-purposes. Discussing movies, on the other hand, has been an enjoyable and profitable experience for us both (for me; I suspect you too, my pal). So, you've had your say to me on politics and I to you. Hopefully at some time soon we can move away from such a contentious subject and its necessarily edgy tone and keep the conversation on subjects where we may agree or disagree, but at least start from the same premise or observation.

See you soon, and glad to see you once again! 

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Hob,

Good to hear from you again. It has been quite a while. I'm sorry to hear that things have been not so good for you lately. I mean that. If you want to talk, there's always a PM. Do or say whatever I can. I think of us as a kind of 21st century Buckley/Galbraith team re political matters. Sad there aren't more of those around. This season has me worn out! I'll stay away from it then. I'm also finishing a novel which has taken up much of my time even in retirement (fully so now). Working through the 2nd draft -- slow going -- and hope to register a copyright before Xmas.

To clarify a little -- my "end of the American Republic" comments should be understood not as an apocalyptic or sudden process but as a reverse metamorphosis:
The butterfly entering back into the cocoon, slowly and unnoticed; the Constitution changing just as slowly and unnoticed from the Law of the Land through multitudinous end-runs turned legal precedent & word re-definitions into a book of quaint, helpful suggestions from an age no longer remembered or studied in the best of our institutions (governmental and academic).

Again, great to hear from you. I'll be looking for you on other sites -- when I can get away from the inevitable edits.

Best, as always

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Say, neat to hear that you're finishing a novel. Something I don't think I'd ever have the patience to do -- long columns, but nothing more sustained. Good going!

Yes, sometime we should catch up via PMs. Glad to hear you're doing well.

And at least we're Buckley-Galbraith and not Buckley-Vidal!

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Thanks. Love your last sentence -- and yes! 

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