MovieChat Forums > The Egyptian (1954) Discussion > Nefer's good side?

Nefer's good side?

posted 13 years ago by 398
21 replies | jump to latest

It is interesting to me that Merit (Jean Simmons) ended up with the house of Sinuhe's parents and also with his surgical instruments. She says she bought the house cheap. But the instruments? Sinuhe told Nefer they were as valuable as precious jewels, and I can't see him as a liar. So how could Merit afford them, or even the house? She was a poor bar maid.

The answer, I think, if that Nefer gave Merit the house and the instruments. It is the only explanation which makes much sense. It is interesting that Nefer is very honest that she finds Sinuhe appealing, but is only toying with him. It is difficult to imagine her being more blunt. She is not at all manipulative.

My reading is that Nefer does not want to destroy Sinuhe, or even hurt him, really. She just wants to teach him a lesson. She wants to show him how foolish he is to chase after her or any other woman like her. Yes, she took everything he gave her, but I think she possibly planned on giving them back after Sinuhe finally absorbed the facts of life. Sinuhe's stubbornness and his parents' suicides was probably more than she expected. It appears that Nefer and Merit somehow knew each other (possibly through Horemheb) and so Nefer offered financial support to Merit, and her son, and gave her Sinuhe's instruments if he should ever return.

Sinuhe did not seem that surprised to find Merit when he returned to his old home. I think Nefer told him where she was. And even possibly about the boy.

*I have not read the novel, or ever even seen it in print, and so this extrapolation is entirely on what is shown in the movie. If the novel is different, though, it still does not mean the movie was not meant to imply what I see in it.

[–] dicooley 13 years ago

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

Nefer sums up her experience with Sinuhe by saying "Even a cat tires of its game."
Later Lord Sinuhe concurs with this, stating "and a cat can't help being what it is..."

I'm supposed to be retired. I don't want to get mixed up in this darned thing.
--Vertigo

[–] randyparr1952 13 years ago

I interpreted that business as Merit being so in love with Sinuhe that she followed his career and pitfalls and in her desire to win him over, she bought the house when it came to be for sale. After all, what purpose would it serve to hang on to it. Just dump it on some annonymous buyer along with some useless medical instruments.

I don't have to show you any stinking badges!

[–] Molly-31 12 years ago

I didn't get this from what Merit said (she said the house was cheap, not free). But Nefer did have a good side. In the book, once she was cured of her illness, she became a sort of social worker. She raised money for charity and helped a lot of people.

You've got me?! Who's got you?!

[–] molarmaven59 11 years ago

HUH?

Really?

[–] dbrockskk1 11 years ago

uh huh!

suzycreamcheese RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

Molly-31 says > I didn't get this from what Merit said (she said the house was cheap, not free). But Nefer did have a good side.

You're right, Merit told Sinuhe she bought the house cheap; she did not say it was given to her. Though it wasn't explained in the movie, I have my suspicions about how that happened.

Once Nefer lost her looks, the gifts from her male friends dried up because the men stopped coming around. Even those that may have continued to come around would not have felt the need to be quite as generous. She was ill, unattractive, and had a lot of expenses so she was desperate.

She had to unload what she had including Sinuhe's prized possessions. Most people wouldn't want anything to do with her kind. Merit was used to dealing with all sorts because of where she worked. She was a nobody so she could deal with Nefer without suffering serious repercussions.

She wouldn't have wanted the other stuff Nefer had but the house and tools held sentimental value. She didn't have much so Nefer took whatever Merit could pay. Merit held on to them in hopes Sinuhe would return but if he didn't the boy, her ward, would use them. She was raising him to pick up where Sinuhe left off before going astray.

Nefer did have a good side. In the book, once she was cured of her illness, she became a sort of social worker. She raised money for charity and helped a lot of people.

I didn't read the book and none of that was in the movie so in my opinion Nefer was pure evil. She may have warned Sinuhe and claimed she never asked for anything but she had no trouble accepting all he had. Then, when he had nothing else, she put the idea in his head that he could give her even what wasn't his to give.

No, she never asked in so many words but she manipulated and lied to him. Once she got what she wanted and he had nothing more to give she unceremoniously tossed him out. She basically laughed in him his face, humiliating him to the point he wanted and tried to kill her.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

It wasn't her ward, it was her illegitimate son with Sinuhe.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

vl2 says > It wasn't her ward, it was her illegitimate son with Sinuhe.

I don't recall it being depicted that way in the movie.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] cfwente 8 years ago

Look again at the scene in which dinner is about to be served in Sinuhe's old home. It's quite clear that Thoth is the illegitimate son of Merit and Sinuhe. Sinuhe says, "If it's too late to live for ourselves, maybe it isn't too late to live for our son." (something like that)

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

cfwente says > Look again at the scene in which dinner is about to be served in Sinuhe's old home. It's quite clear that Thoth is the illegitimate son of Merit and Sinuhe. Sinuhe says, "If it's too late to live for ourselves, maybe it isn't too late to live for our son." (something like that)

It's been a while since I saw the movie and I didn't save it so I can't review the section to which you're referring. I just remember wondering about the child at the time. I felt I'd gotten the answer in some way though now I don't recall how. Next time it airs I'll definitely consider watching it again.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

It's more subtle in the movie, that Merit had offered herself to Sinuhe when he was about to completely ruin himself over Nefer. He takes her up on that right after burying his parents, just before leaving Egypt.

In the book, it's pretty blatantly spelled out that they had sex several times and were sort of friends with benefits with Thoth being the end result.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

vl2 says > In the book, it's pretty blatantly spelled out that they had sex several times and were sort of friends with benefits with Thoth being the end result.

As blatant as it may have been in the book, I didn't get the impression that's how things were in the movie. I expect subtle when watching old movies but by the time the fifties rolled around the subtlety wasn't what it had been in previous decades. Those things don't usually get passed me but, who knows, maybe this time it did.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

It's still pretty blatant for old movie subtlety. Right after Nefer played her "I'm totally not asking for your parents' tomb, but you could give it to me if you wanted" game, Sinuhe arrives home with the deed to the tomb, finding Merit waiting for him. She has this whole speech about how she's "experienced" and has seen "the hunger in men's eyes because with a tavern maid they don't trouble to hide it," and when he asks what she's getting at, she says she shouldn't have to come right out and say it when he finds her waiting in his house at this hour. But he's more interested in trying to make her sign as a witness that Nefer now owns the tomb.

Then in the Valley of The Kings, when she shows up with food, there's that embrace before the scene change. Happened between the fade out and the next day when Sinuhe and Kaptah were leaving.

Also, Kaptah strongly hints to Merit that he knows what's up with that whole orphaned ward business, but isn't going to say anything because he likes not having someone's housewife ordering him around.

Whole movie's up on youtube, if you want to review.

...I didn't mean that to come out as b*tchy as it probably did.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

vl2 says > Whole movie's up on youtube, if you want to review.

I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't re-watch the entire movie but I did take a look at some of the scenes you mentioned.

Sinuhe arrives home with the deed to the tomb, finding Merit waiting for him. She has this whole speech about how she's "experienced" and has seen "the hunger in men's eyes because with a tavern maid they don't trouble to hide it," and when he asks what she's getting at, she says she shouldn't have to come right out and say it when he finds her waiting in his house at this hour.

I didn't interpret that scene the same way you did. I thought Merit was saying she was accustomed to hearing men talk openly about women and sex. She thought they had a tendency to go after the wrong type of women; the ones offering sex but not love. Merit was telling Sinuhe that she was in love with him. She was not offering him sex.

he's more interested in trying to make her sign as a witness that Nefer now owns the tomb.

Sinuhe was obsessed with Nefer; that's why he was willing to betray his own parents and turned everything over to her. Like a lot of men, he and the other men she was using, lusted after her. He couldn't care less how Merit felt about him.

Then in the Valley of The Kings, when she shows up with food, there's that embrace before the scene change. Happened between the fade out and the next day when Sinuhe and Kaptah were leaving.

I'll concede this point. It's not how I saw it originally but watching the scene again, I can see how one might come to the same conclusion you did.

Also, Kaptah strongly hints to Merit that he knows what's up with that whole orphaned ward business, but isn't going to say anything because he likes not having someone's housewife ordering him around.

I completely believed the whole orphan thing. I did hear Sinuhe say 'our' child but I thought that was his way of saying they'd be together from then on and as such they would raise the boy together. He did also say he had done one thing right. I have to assume he meant the child since almost everything else he had done was not so great. Anyway, not having watched the movie again I can only go by the few scenes I watched. They were completely out of context but that's about all I could do. The movie is really long and I just didn't have the time to watch it all again.

...I didn't mean that to come out as b*tchy as it probably did.

No worries, I didn't take it that way and, until you mentioned it that never crossed my mind. I like it when people stand their ground and support what they believe. That's what I do; unless, as in this case, I've forgotten more about the movie than I remember. It's hard to make a case when I'm not so sure myself.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

I didn't interpret that scene the same way you did. I thought Merit was saying she was accustomed to hearing men talk openly about women and sex. She thought they had a tendency to go after the wrong type of women; the ones offering sex but not love. Merit was telling Sinuhe that she was in love with him. She was not offering him sex.

It goes back to that scene when Merit chases Kaptah out of the tavern for giving her the advice to "offer him more than she can." On the social totem, tavern maid means cheaper prostitute, hence why she's "not without experience," she's been to bed with her share of leering Horemheb types, and possibly a few virginal Sinuhe types since she's able to tell the difference. It's just expected at her job. As physician to Pharaoh, Sinuhe is extremely high above her and she's well aware of it.

Nefer, had she ever given in (as she did in the book, and deliberately yawned through the whole thing) would have only given him sex without love. Merit is offering both, but in that moment, she's offering herself to him sexually in the hopes that it will break the lustful spell cast over him by Nefer.

It is a near perfect parallel to that moment when Horemheb mentions his desire for Baketamon and Sinuhe tells him to use another women to get over her. In Horemheb's case, it lead to a three way in a garden, In Sinuhe's case the idea was that going to bed with someone who cared for him would show him how toxic Nefer was.

Sinuhe was obsessed with Nefer; that's why he was willing to betray his own parents and turned everything over to her. Like a lot of men, he and the other men she was using, lusted after her. He couldn't care less how Merit felt about him.

Well aware of that. Which brings me back to my point about "using one woman to get over another." Forgive the crudity, but Nefer was deliberately keeping Sinuhe in a state of permanent blue balls. The mental state she had him in, as well, meant that Merit was going to have to do a bit more than just hold hands and confess her love.

I completely believed the whole orphan thing. I did hear Sinuhe say 'our' child but I thought that was his way of saying they'd be together from then on and as such they would raise the boy together. He did also say he had done one thing right. I have to assume he meant the child since almost everything else he had done was not so great. Anyway, not having watched the movie again I can only go by the few scenes I watched. They were completely out of context but that's about all I could do. The movie is really long and I just didn't have the time to watch it all again.

Book Sinuhe is not an admirable figure by any means. He does have a few shining moments, but he also murders and uses ancient roofies to help Horemheb rape Princess Baketamon. It's no surprise that at least a little of that came through in the movie. Creating this pure, sweet child who is the kind of person he once was, would definitely be the best thing he ever did.

Or, it would have been, if Merit hadn't been killed in that religious uprising by protecting Thoth, who was also killed. It's at this point, in Sinuhe's suicidal rampage, that Kaptah reveals that Thoth was Sinuhe's son, iirc. I know he was told, but I can't remember if that's the right moment or not. It's been awhile since I read it, but I don't think he pieced it together on his own like in the movie.

But when in doubt, always go by Kaptah. If he indicates that something is up or not right, chances are he's on the nose. His role is much reduced in the movie, but Sinuhe's life from the moment they met could easily be described as "would be dead ten times over if not for Kaptah." I don't remember a single instance of anyone being able to pull the wool over Kaptah's eyes, as he was the consummate conman.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

vl2 says > It goes back to the scene...

I won't argue point by point because, as I said before, I only watched the movie once and then only the few scenes that you mentioned. I remember the movie enough to know I did not see it the way you're describing. I'm not saying you're wrong; just that we saw it differently.

I suspect the disconnect is the book. I've never read the book myself but, based on some of the things you've said, I think you're confusing what you know from the book with what you saw in the movie. I always tell people it's not a good idea to mix up the two but I can see how it would be very difficult to separate them.

Referring to the book would be fine if movies were faithful adaptations of the source material but that's rarely the case. In fact, most do not because it's not as easy as it might seem. For one thing, the amount of detail in movies cannot compare to what one gets in a book. In a book it's all, literally, spelled out for you. A movie, on the other hand, is much less obvious and leaves a lot more room for interpretation. There's the screenwriter's interpretation; the director's; and, of course, the viewer's.

I don't think the specific points on which we disagree affect the overall message the movie sends.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

I won't argue point by point because, as I said before, I only watched the movie once and then only the few scenes that you mentioned. I remember the movie enough to know I did not see it the way you're describing. I'm not saying you're wrong; just that we saw it differently.

Fair enough.

I suspect the disconnect is the book. I've never read the book myself but, based on some of the things you've said, I think you're confusing what you know from the book with what you saw in the movie.

Well, actually, in my case, I saw the movie when I was...er, sometime in my early teens, I think, and absolutely obsessed with watching old movies on AMC, and still came to the same conclusion. The book came years later. Really, the only difference I could see is that most of the rape and murder is left out, and Merit and Nefer weren't simultaneously involved with Sinuhe. Nefer was much earlier in his life, probably late teens, and the thing with Merit was later, as an adult. Again, I could be remembering the timeline wrong.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

vl2 says > the only difference I could see is that most of the rape and murder is left out, and Merit and Nefer weren't simultaneously involved with Sinuhe.

Those sound like pretty substantial differences to me.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] vl2 8 years ago

Well, timeline-wise, sure but one of the murders Sinuhe committed is left in, and Baketamon's rape obviously still happened even if her epic revenge didn't.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] denis-38 10 years ago

I wouldn't go so far as to say Nefer had a "good" side, but she sure as hell warns Sinuhe over and over exactly the kind of woman she is. She expected to be paid and "protected" by her men friends.

I always had a soft spot for Nefer. She was honest, at least.