Ending--WTF?!

The film certainly portrays them that way, but the book provides more substance.

Greenwald's point is that Queeg might never have behaved the way he did if his officers had backed him up. He came to them for help, and rather than put aside their problems with him and act for the good of the ship, the Navy and the war in general, the turned on him and made fun of him. If they had said, in that meeting, "Captain, we can help you however way you need it. Just tell us what to do" and shown him some forgiveness and support, he'd likely have never been so damn hard to get along with. And, because of that, when Maryk tried to convince him to come north in the storm, he probably would have listened. That was Greenwald's point; the officers didn't like him (especially Keefer, who resented having his writing time cut into by Queeg), so instead of backing him up like they should have, the made things much worse.

Remember what they said in the court martial; that Queeg was okay most of the time, but in times of extreme stress he would "snap". But if he'd had a supportive officer corp under him he could rely on, he probably wouldn't have ever felt the stress that much.

I get what you mean, believe me. Queeg is a thoroughly nasty guy in the book, actually even worse than in the movie. But the point stands. Everyone gets a captain or superior at some point who's a mean, stupid, bullying ass; you still have to follow and support that person, though, for the good of the mission and the ship.


Whores will have their trinkets.

There was a war on. Also, Captain (LCDR) Queeg is in charge. The officers and sailors do not have a 'job' in the navy and an expectation of justice. They have accepted a mission in the United States military.



The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

I have to agree with you zen. I caught about the last 2/3 of the movie, so in fairness I do need to watch from the beginning, but I couldn't for the life of me see why this movie is so universally acclaimed. The moral seems completely backwards- follow the orders of your captain and do not challenge his authority, even by following the proper regs, and even if the lives of the crew are at risk, as in the typhoon. Because, don't forget, Van Johnson's character didn't invoke the regs because of the strawberries, or the tow line, or the landing craft, but only when the captain was paralyzed with fear and indecision in a situation in which the survival of his ship and crew were on the brink.

The lawyer was obviously supposed to represent the impartial moral compass (sextant?) of the film, in his drunken tirade at the end - which seemed like a high school kid who had never had a drink portraying a drunk in his high school play. So, the message is that Maryk behaved dishonorably? And then that dedication at the end- something like "to the United States Navy"?? So, here's to the institution which values slavish loyalty to an incompetent superior over courage, conscience, and heroism?

Granted, it was a different time- not that long after WWII, when the nation was still in the throes of military worship. And apparently still fear in Hollywood of being viewed as unpatriotic, in the wake of McCarthyism.

Bogart certainly portrayed a character with deep personal problems, but with no subtlety in his acting and an almost melodramatic acting style. His portrayal reminded me of Richard Nixon- controlled by paranoia. But, again, the acting style was as much a product of the times as the moral.

Zen - It's funny that you ask this question, because before my husband died we discussed this every time we watched the movie. I was the one fearful of authority, and he was brave and fearless, but he was a disabled USN Vietnam Veteran. For myself, I agreed completely with Maryk, yet my husband wouldn't have taken command away from Queeg. I guess I can only think like a civilian, and the military had been drilled into him. As far as a person having to be a psychiatrist to recognize weird and bizarre behavior, to me that's a cop out. The average person can see when someone is not normal without advanced degrees.

Imo if Queeg actually suffered from a paranoid personality disorder, no matter how chummy the crew became, he could have turned on a dime, with the same result during the typhoons.

An army classmate of mine when I was in graduate school (nuclear engineering at the Air Force Institute of Technology) used a phrase that I have never forgotten, "unlimited accountability." It is alluded to in the movie, the book, and I infer the play when the court refers to the psychiatrists as dealing with CEOs, men with huge responsibility. Being a CEO is not the same as command.

I have discussed unlimited accountability with others as to what they think it means. I have thought a lot about it myself. Officers are appointed by the President of the United States of America in accordance with the Constitution. We take an oath.

"I -- person's name -- do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will be true faith and allegiance to the same, that I take this oath willingly, without purpose of evasion or mental reservation, and that I will execute the duties of the office to which I have been appointed to best of my abilities. (the following phrase is optional) So, help me God."

To me absolute accountability means that the taker of the oath may need to die in order to comply with the oath. That the taker of the oath may need to order other people to carry out duties that he knows will cause their deaths. And there is no committee, review board, or team of second guessers there to help take the blame. Even a confident commander with a good and loyal staff must make the decisions alone and be solely responsible for the outcome. The staff can only advise, only the commander can decide and order.

The nearest 'civilian' equivalent job that I know is the Secretary of Defense, along with the secretaries of the various service components. I do not include the President of the United States, because as Commander-in-Chief he (or she, someday) is not a civilian. Of course, in the American system the military is ultimately commanded by civilians so the distinction becomes blurred.

Only commanders know what it is like to have those second thoughts about the people under their command who have been killed in the line of duty. Only commanders must bury those feelings and continue to trust in their own decisions.

Keep in mind that commanders are very often not over 40 with many years of experience. The term commanders includes twenty-one year old corporals who lead a four man fire team and even the occasional nineteen year old PFC who must take over when the lieutenant is waxed. All commanders have less than perfect knowledge, less than perfect communication skills, and less than perfect discipline. They are only human.

Having written all that about us and those like us, I try to remember all of the above every time I hear a negative story or get pulled over by a 'beat' cop. Everyone of them is in a very similar boat every day and needs to deal with much stricter, nonsensical rules of engagement. If more of us remembered what they need to do and supported them, there would be a lot fewer shootings.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

I didn't like the speech either. Pompous jerk. I wonder if it would go this way now, where no matter what, you can't question the captain. Is the military now more sensitive these days?

Also totally disliked the romance subplot. It doesn't matter if it was in the book, it could have been deleted, or done much better.

Small complaints about an otherwise great movie. When Bogie starts rambling and digs into his jacket for his marbles--wow.

This is where the flaw in developing the character is apparent. We are not told why the original officer is being relieved. But we know that Willie has a problem with him (and apparently, authority). Then Queeg comes on board and is even more authoritative. The officers eventually turn on him. During the Marine landing operation Queeg's cowardice refuses to provide cover and drops a dye marker as he turns and runs for safety, under full view of the landing operation. Yet during the typhoon he refuses to alter course and head for safety even though he is under disguise of the storm??? The paranoia doesn't add up here.

I know I'm late to this thread but I'd like to add my take on it.

IMO, what set off Greenwald was ( what he thought was ) the overly celebratory mood of the defendants "winning" the trial. I think he knew Queeg was a nut and that if Maryk, Keith and others had took their winning in quiet solemnity, he wouldn't have went off on his rant.

Not that I don't understand the relief the officers must have felt and the desire to unwind with alcohol, but for the moment they should have let well enough alone and be satisfied with not being on the hook and that Queeg was finished.

FWIW, as to the appeal to the crew of supporting Queeg earlier, I'm not convinced Queeg would have "came around" and stayed there. He might relent slightly and briefly, but would, due to his inveterate nature, resume his methods of that of a paranoid martinet regardless.