MovieChat Forums > Victory at Sea (1952) Discussion > staged and fake footage?

staged and fake footage?

posted 12 years ago by spud-boy
10 replies | jump to latest

I just watched the 2nd episode, which is about the Pearl Harbor strike. It was fairly evident that much of the footage of the strike was staged, as if taken from movie clips...and fake, such as shots of ship being hit by bombs which looked like models. I was a bit shocked and disappointed. Wasn't this series presented as a pure documentary? Or did the producers frankly mean to add some dramatic effects? Yes, I know in more recent documentaries about, say, the civil war...liberal use of re-creations will be used. But I don't think anybody believes those re-creations are actual footage...and I agree they can enhance the understanding of the material.

[–] rhorky 12 years ago

I believe--but cannot say for sure--that the Pearl Harbor attack material was created by the Japanese using models for home consumption early in the war (see, boys and girls, this is how we beat the USA!). There is very little authentic footage from PH, either American or Japanese--people there that day had other things on their mainds. Even the sequence of the Arizona blowing up is fragmented. The cameraman did not know what was going to happen and stopped shooting.

[–] spud-boy 12 years ago

Well, that makes sense. I can believe anybody with a camera isn't necessarily thinking about getting footage. It wasn't badly done, considering...I just hope the rest of the series won't have too many staged shots.

[–] thegalaxybeing 12 years ago

It is excepted that some footage was added (in case there wasn't enough actual footage) but overall, there's a humongous amount of fascinating real footage in this series. Since this was put together at a time when WWII was still very fresh in everyone's minds. It is very much told from an almost first person point of view, which makes it very essential viewing for anyone interested in that period of history.

I was altogether pleased with this Blu-ray. I did notice that some poorer video (moderately bad source film) is in the very first disc or two. The Blu-ray did look quite a bit better then the DVD version I originally had.

[–] dalldorfw 11 years ago

I was kinda surprised how much real footage they did get away with showing (especially on television); lots of real battle footage featuring shots of real people being shot, and planes and boats (with people inside) being blown into oblivion. This was aired on TV. the same decade that Lucille Ball couldn't say that she was "pregnant". What the hell, censorship?!

[–] rsgre 10 years ago

Wow, coming in very late to reply to the original comments. Just finished listening to the first two recorded scores on old cassette tapes I still have. Sounded pretty good still since they came from original early fifties hi-fi, when stereo sound was not perfected yet. Not based exactly on the actual TV programs, more just free style interpretations based on the interwoven themes that repeat throughout the series. I liked hearing them again, although not something I would listen to very often now.
As far as the Pearl Harbor footage, they had to use fake because very little actual footage exists since it was a total surprise. Incredibly, they did capture that horrible moment when the battleship Arizona exploded, and about 1200 men died instantly. John Ford later directed a film in 1943 about the attack, titled "December 7th", and I think they used a lot of his fake footage here too.
In the end, VAS was a stirring tribute to the men who fought and died, and the respect for them shines all the way through this production. Richard Rogers was obviously inspired and wrote an awesome score that still sounds impressive today. Might have more...

RSGRE

[–] whatsthisnow 9 years ago

I could be wrong, but I think that a lot of the Pearl Harbor footage we see out there is from John Ford's December 7th, which was commissioned by the US gov in '43. I think it's public domain and that there's very little authentic footage of Pearl Harbor, so it gets used a lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_7th_(film)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035790/

[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

I am coming into this several years after your original query. I think it is noted somewhere in the notes on "Victory at Sea," and if it isn't in the original notes it has been noted by reviewers, that part of the footage in the segment on the Pearl Harbor attack is from John Ford's documentary. Part of his documentary was staged using models as well as American ships and aircraft representing the Japanese. RSGRE and whatthisnow are correct.

I remember one almost iconic shot of three "Japanese" dive bombers in formation who hold their formation and drop their bombs together very early in their dive. These three aircraft are, in fact SBD Dauntless dive bombers of the U.S. Nave and they drop their bombs on cue from the camera plane. They are not on an attack run, which can be recognized by the improperly early dropping of their bombs.

However, keep in mind that even John Ford's documentary uses what actual combat footage that is available and usable.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] spud-boy 8 years ago

I'm just disappointed that such obiously fake footage was used. Of course, we are a much more sophisticated audience.

[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

I think many people would have recognized the staged scenes and models in 1952, as well as in 1943. But, what else could they do? There was no actual footage.

People, at least some of them would also have recognized the actual Japanese camera footage of the planes in formation and the bombs striking the targets. The footage that they were able to track down and incorporate.

Most of the combat footage was being shown for the first time.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] Big G-2 8 years ago

Some of the footage with all of the models were taken from the Japanese war movie THE WAR AT SEA FROM HAWAII TO MALAY, released in 1942, by the Toho Studios with special effects from Eiji Tsuburaya, who would later helm the f/x for the Godzilla films.

And if one can recognize him, there is a quick glimpse of the star of that movie, Susumu Fujita, who was at that time, Akira Kurosawa's leading man (before Toshiro Mifune), and who also starred a in great deal of Japanese sci-fi movies, including GODZILLA VS. THE THING (1964).