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What was the original language of this movie

posted 12 years ago by m-leschack
13 replies | jump to latest

I have seen numerous posts and reviews regarding language in this movie, but nobody cites a source for this information. When Rossellini first produced this movie, what was the actual title, Viaggio in Italia or Journey to Italy. What language was spoken in the original production? Did Sanders and Bergman learn Italian dialog or did they follow an English language script. Was the film as originally shown in Italy dubbed when Sanders and Bergman spoke or did Italian audiences see it in English with Italian subtitles. What about the Italian actors in it. Did they originally speak Italian or English with an Italian accent. Were the original cast and crew listings in Italian or in English. If anyone has the answer, please cite a source for the answer. I certainly cannot imagine an American film director making a film with French or Italian actors speaking their native language and then dubbing it or subtitling it for American audiences.

[–] Tom_Cruises_Testicles 12 years ago

Italian films were shot without sound. All dialogue and sound was dubbed in afterwards. (Fellini was notorious for telling actors to just count numbers when they couldn't memorize their lines).

This film was released with the dialogue in English. Two reasons for this- 1) the couple is not suppose to be Italian 2)If they spoke Italian, the scene where he can't understand Italian wouldn't make any sense.

In Italy, they did release a version with Italian dialogue only and omitted the scene I mentioned. Everywhere else its in English and runs longer due to having the extra scene.

The credits are in Italian in all releases, because its still an Italian film despite the main characters speaking English.

Source: The film itself.

[–] stuffic 11 years ago

Right now they are showing it on TCM and the movie is in Italian (I guess) with English subtitles. It appears Bergman and Sanders voices are dubbed.

imdb.whospoppin.com

[–] lschmidt2 11 years ago

Exactly. And, to me, it just seems ridiculous. I couldn't stay with it. For many reasons, one of them being Sanders' distinct voice and pattern of speech. So not right to watch him and not have that.Very weird. I would really like to see it in English. That would make more sense in this case.

[–] socorso 11 years ago

Agreed...! It's awful to sit through. No wonder dubbing is so hated. It was an odd night for TCM, watching Europa '51 dubbed in english and Journey to Italy dubbed in Italian..!

Cold sober, I find myself absolutely fascinating.

[–] g_monte 9 years ago

I don’t think this was the only time they showed the Italian-dubbed version of this film. I don’t know why they do it. It sucks. Would they show Casablanca with a Korean–dubbed soundtrack and English subtitles?

[–] bnwfilmbuff 9 years ago

The power of these great actors - Bergman and Sanders, is completely lost with the dubbing in Italian. It's ludicrous. They are supposed to be an English couple.

[–] Thumpersma 11 years ago

But Bergman could speak Italian fluently. Why would they dub her?

[–] denham 10 years ago

I have seen the restored Criterion 2012 version, in which Bergman and Sanders speak English and the rest of the (Italian) cast a mixture of English and Italian. It is evident, though not surprising, that when we hear other members of the cast speaking in English it is often not very well dubbed. It is more notable that, to my ears anyway, when Bergman and Sanders are speaking English, it also often sounds as if it has been not very well dubbed, or perhaps one should rather say looped. I wonder if the two stars were required to re-record their dialog in post-production in a way they were not accustomed to in Hollywood?

I beseech ye in the bowels of Christ, think that ye may be mistaken.

[–] stuntmanmike 9 years ago

actually she did Not speak italian :

"Dear Mr. Rossellini,
I saw your films Open City and Paisan, and enjoyed them very much. If you need a Swedish actress who speaks English very well, who has not forgotten her German, who is not very understandable in French, and who in Italian knows only "ti amo", I am ready to come and make a film with you.
Ingrid Bergman"

[–] danetanner 7 years ago

Nonsense.
Firstly the 'Dear Mr. Rossellini' letter was written in 1948 one year before meeting Rossellini, and even though she states that her Italian is rudimentary she was simply being winsome and overly modest in her solicitation for work. On Youtube there are interviews with her in French and her French is very good, much better than what she says in the letter. As a multilingual European with a facility for language, it wouldn't take more than a year living in the country, to become fluent in Italian, which she did as work started with Rossellini in 1949 and they fell in love. 1950 they have a son. A little while later the great Italian car company of Ferrari design a model in her honour. 1952 she gives birth to twin girls and then in 1954 they make this movie with Ingrid and George Sanders. So she has been living, working, loving, making a family and being honoured in Italy for six years before she makes the film 'Viaggio in Italia' (Journey to Italy) and there is no way she couldn't be absolutely fluent in the language.

[–] jonkennedy 9 years ago

Just saw the film on TCM. It was the Italian dubbed version with English subtitles. This made it practically unwatchable. Then I come here and find out it was originally in English, and I'm now like, wtf,TCM? Cheese and crackers!

The only thing I can think of is that this was the cleanest print available for a story told more visually than verbally.

[–] atlantajoseph 8 years ago

I have the Criterion version, which is included in the Rossellini/Bergman box set. The audio there is the original English track and the video quality is pristine. Perhaps Criterion is trying to entice people to buy the discs by putting the Italian dub out there as something of a teaser.

[–] dipianth 8 years ago

I just watched this (and started Europe '51...) and I too find it incredible that they have 2 English speaking actors dubbed in Italian! I started the night with Europe '51 and found it too irritating (though I hope to finish it) to watch a cast speak in "English" when in reality they should be speaking Italian with English subtitles.

I stop that film and start Voyage to Italy (aka Journey to Italy) and see that this film is the opposite - English speakers dubbed into Italian. UGGGH!!

BTW - these are both the Criterion versions streamed on HULU.COM. They have both "Voyage to Italy" (which I watched) and "Journey to Italy" (which I wonder if it is the English version?).

I assume since the note Bergman reads (from Sanders) at one point is written in English, the film was originally in English.

Funny to see others as frustrated and perplexed as I was over these 2 exact titles I watched tonight!