Bergman's best


This film has fallen between the cracks apparently because it was released before Bergman's first medium hit "Smiles of a Summer Night" and his first big one "The Seventh Seal". Actually, a number of people including Dwight MacDonald, James Baldwin and John Simon put this in first place. I personally think this is one of the dozen best films ever made and don't even know where to start talking about it. Almost every scene is a masterpiece; there are more brilliant shots here than in any other Bergman film. This is his "Citizen Kane", yet people post ridiculous comments about how this film has some good moments, but is not up to the standard of something like "Autumn Sonata". (At least they didn't say "Fanny and Alexander"!) This film needs to be rediscovered. It would almost certainly be considered up there with "Wild Strawberries" if it had been released at the same time, i.e. after "The Seventh Seal".

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This was my favorite Bergman for a long time. It's not anymore.. Still top 5 to me, though, and that's a good!

Top 20; favorite movies:
http://ymdb.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=13

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Well, here is mine (in chronological order):

The Birth of a Nation
Stachka
Oktyabr
L'Atalante
La regle du jeu
Citizen Kane
The Magnificent Ambersons
Tokyo Monogatari
Gycklarnas Afton
L'Avventura
Jules et Jim
8 1/2

Runners-up:

Intolerance
Sherlock Junior
Bronenosets Potyomkin
Zero de conduite
Bakushu
Shichi Nin no Samurai
Vertigo
Gertrud

That makes 20, but I could add another 50 or so (including "Persona").

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That's some list.. Many I want to see from there. Good to see Gycklarnas Afton getting some attention.

Top 20; favorite movies:
http://ymdb.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=13

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[deleted]

Just watched it and was a wee bit underwhelmed.
Same here. Still good (7/10) but Bergman's best? 'fraid not. Harriet Andersson is of course, once again, quite amazing.

Off the top of my head, I would rate the three films in Bergamn's "trilogy", Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light and The Silence as easily the better films.

And as to the OP's observation, "Almost every scene is a masterpiece?", so we are now not only calling films masterpieces - too many on these boards for that matter, if you ask me - but also 'individual' scenes? Hmmm...

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Gycklarnas Afton is a good film, but not near Bergman's best. Bergman had not yet developed his own style with this film, and his influences are naked and in plain sight. Not that they are bad influences, not at all, Eisenstein and Dreyer make for fine models; but it is always a little hard to watch a young artist so uncovered.

The film has no major flaws, but by looking at Bergman's later films it is easy for me to see some things that could have made this film better. For instance a larger cast of main characters and more comedy like in 1955's "Smiles of a Summer Night". And, perhaps, shrewder editing, particularly in the silent sequence in which Frost retrieves his wife. It could have been a much more powerful scene if it hadn't run on for so long, and if it wasn't quite so redundant.

In the end this is a good film, but not nearly as entertaining or profound as some of his later work. I rank it somewhere like this:


Virgin Spring
Fanny and Alexander
Smiles of a Summer Night
Through a Glass Darkly
Scenes from a Marriage
Winter Light
Seventh Seal
Wild Strawberries
Sawdust and Tinsel

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I really really liked this film, the problem with Bergman is that he has too many masterpieces!

My ranking of his films I've seen so far:

1. Persona
2. Fanny And Alexander
3. Cries And Whispers
4. Winter Light
5. The Seventh Seal
6. Wild Strawberries
7. Sawdust And Tinsel
8. Brink Of Life
9. Smiles Of A Summer Night
10. Through A Glass Darkly
11. The Silence
12. The Virgin Spring

J Dilla Changed My Life. Rest In Beats.

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It's something. That's for sure. Still trying to figure out what that bear was supposed to represent (if anything) ? The bear got a raw deal.

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The bear resembles Albert.

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I agree. Gycklarnas Afton is so brilliant that I no longer have any interest in watching the Bergman films I have yet to watch. I already know none of them are worth a mote of dust compared to Gycklarnas Afton. Or maybe Gycklarnas Afton destroyed me in some way, and I fear to watch another Bergman film.

The eleven Bergman films I've seen, ranked and rated:

All 10/10
-Gycklarnas Afton (Ark, Mountain Top, Holy of the Holies)
-Ansiktet
-Vargtimmen
-Persona
-Smultronstället
-Nattvardsgästerna
-Såsom I En Spegel
-Det Sjunde Inseglet
-Viskningar Och Rop
-Jungfrukällan

And 8/10 - The Serpent's Egg

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"Smiles of a Summer Night", "The Silence" and "The Passion of Anna" are great too.

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The Naked Night was the first Bergman I was immensely impressed with ( as opposed to depressed and confused with many of his other films) in my early exposure with him did. Granted it's a powerfully depressing journey but the power wins out and you leave the theatre somewhat feeling stirred, moved and rewarded.

I know the praise really began to rain down heavy on Bergman the more nebulous (Persona on through the sixties) he got but Night is rich in expressionistic imagery with concrete as opposed to abstract symbolism that unlike Wild Strawberries and The Seventh Seal lightens the heavy hand with powerfully desperate and unsentimental performances by the cast.

It's been well over a decade since I last saw it and i've begun to warm up to (understand a touch more) of his later works but outside a few close-ups of a desperate Liv Ullman in many of his films The Naked Night remains my favorite with the possibility of it surpassing Fellin's similar La Strada in my totally uninfluential sightless and soundless ratings upon next reviewing.

While we are on the topic of Fellini, Kriege I found your distaste for Amacord interesting. I like it in many ways but it is evident that when aging masters do victory laps at the tail end of their careers they get a pass from critics. Amacord is in many ways sentimental claptrap to those that have reference of Fellini's earlier works and I believe you take the same tact about the well produced bore Fanny and Alexander. How do you feel about Kurasawa's Ran? I'm hovering. The list of directors who ran out of gas by 65 is endless save for Luis Bunuel.

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I wrote about "Ran" on another thread about a year ago, but it seems to be gone. Kurosawa's last first-rate film was (for me) "High and Low". After that he was a sacred cow who made some truly awful pictures. Basically, he should have thought twice (or thrice) about turning one of Shakespeare's greatest plays into a samurai movie. Yes, it worked once in "Throne of Blood", but that doesn't mean you can get away with it again, especially when you are making the film way past your glory days. All the poetry and drama were gone, there were hardly any interesting shots except at the climax, which looked more like Coppola than Kurosawa and certainly had nothing to do with Shakespeare, the acting, including that by the overrated Tatsuya Nakadai was poor and there was no reason to cast a transvestite from Harajuku or Shinjuku as the fool. (Talk about anachronism!) The last alone would have been enough to sink this from mediocre down to awful for me. By the way, I saw the film at its premiere in Paris.

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It's certainly a good movie and should be proof to anyone who didn't know already that Bergman's "true" film career didn't begin with Smiles of a Summer Night, but I'm with those saying it's not up to par with his best work. Definitely one of his better "under-seen" movies, though, along with Hour of the Wolf, The Magician and Shame.

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great movie but not his best
my fav 10 movies of Ingmar Bergman
1-Persona
2-Summer with Monika
3-Through a Glass Darkly
4-The Silence
5-The Virgin Spring
6-Scenes from a Marriage
7-shame
8-Cries & Whispers
9-Fanny and Alexander
10-Wild Strawberries

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I saw it for the first time last night, and I see that Bergman is trying out some ideas and themes that he would later use to create some great films.
The itinerant troupe of players became the troupe of The Magician and The Rite, the theatre director who treats them so contemptuously reappears in the later films as a mayor or as a policeman. The scene on the beach has an odd resonance with one in The Hour of the Wolf (von Sydow and the boy). I could go on, but I think you get the idea: this is Bergman trying things out, sometimes clumsily. The shooting of the bear was so unrealistic--did he get pressured by his producer to eliminate violence?

I'll give this 7/10, for the scenes between Alfred and his wife, and the parallel scenes between Frans and Anne. Harriet Andersson takes eroticism to new heights in the cinema, and does not remove her clothes!

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[deleted]


Criminally forgotten and underrated and brilliant but not his best.

9/10



When there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...

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