Loved it!!! GREAT!! But...
Did anyone else find the "Triplets" number to be REALLY disturbing?
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MovieChat Forums > The Band Wagon (1953) Discussion > Loved it!!! GREAT!! But...
I don't find that number disturbing at all. Actually, it's quite funny in the way that it caricatures sibling rivalry. Also having the actors dancing on their knees in those "foot stilt" things was ingenious. I think it's a fun number, and the lyric is meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Sometimes I think people try to read too much into these types of things.
An interesting side note: According to Nanette Fabray in the making of documentary on the DVD, it was extremely difficult to jump off the high chairs onto the floor with those things strapped to their knees without falling over
No just grating... like 90 percent of the numbers in this.
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No. It is creative, inventive, beautifully performed - unlike most of
what one finds in cinema today. Are you absolutely certain you want
that screen name??? You don't seem to know too much about classic film.
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"Bandwagon" was the best film of Fred Astaire's MGM period. I much prefer his RKO films, but this one is packed with brilliant moments. I can't think of a more romantic dance than "Dancing In the Dark" as performed by Astaire and Cyd Charisse. I think Minnelli's direction brought the film to an even greater level, and Michael Kidd's choreography of "The Girl Hunt Ballet" surpasses in quality the "Broadway Rhythm" ballet from "Singin In the Rain". As an entertaining film nusical with great musical moments it excels in every way. Still (and I hate to bring it up because I don't want to offend those who love this film), there is an element of the "Bandwagon" that has always bothered me. During the 1940's and 1950's, there was a movement in NY of creating intergrated Broadway Musicals that included Oklahoma, Carousel, Annie Get Your Gun, Finian's Rainbow, Kiss Me Kate, Guys and Dolls, South Pacific, The King and I, My Fair Lady, West Side Story, Gypsy, etc.. These musicals were cohesive, intelligently written, contained integrated scores by top composers, and were as highly regarded as the best plays on Broadway at the time. What I never understood was the Comden and Green script, where they come up with the premise that the "forward thinking innovative musical" is something to think of as silly, repellent, and pretentious as they attempt to comically present a surreal and dissonant mucical production of "Faust". They came up with the idea that an audience would much prefer the kind of vaudeville, gee whiz entertainment that would have been considered passe in the theater at that time. The musical numbers performed in "Bandwagon" mostly come from 1930s Schwartz and Dietz musicals before the theater innovations began, so maybe they wanted find the bet way they can present these numbers. Comden and Green who were so much apart of the group of people revolutionalizing the Broadway musical were working against their own ideals with this Hollywood Musical.
I'll stop squabbling becase, afer all, the film does provide some great entertainment. In addistion, I adore Fred Astaire,Cyd Charisse, Nanette Fabray, Oscar Levant, and Vincente Minnelli. Other than my one reservation about the film, it certainly is one of the best made musicals of the 1950s
It's called wit. And this would apply to the absurd notion of Jeffrey
Cordova's slant that such a musical could play from "Faust." It is NOT
the idea of the Martins', but of Cordova's. The humor in this film is
far more subtle than that of "Singin' in the Rain" - a movie I love, but
not to the same extent as "Bandwagon." Every single number in this movie
BELONGS there and seems to spring from a natural moment. In "Rain" the
"Broadway Melody" finale ISN'T the finale, as there's still more story
that unfolds before Lina Lamont is exposed. This plays slightly awkwardly
to me. I feel of the two, "Bandwagon" is the far more perfect film. I
also consider it the greatest film of Astaire's career. His performance
is so seasoned - rueful, humble, slightly bitter. It's the most real
we ever see him.
As for his RKO period, while I worship the numbers ("Never Gonna Dance"
is the most brilliant to me), the plots are creaky and hard to take (I
sometimes feel glad Edward Everett Horton has died - this way I won't
be arrested for KILLING HIM, he's so unfunny and obnoxious). I prefer
Astaire's MGM period. He had the greatest studio, the greatest arrangers,
musicians, directors and choreograghers. Also, his acting improved and
he became much more attractive. Lastly, Rogers was NOT the best dancer
he worked with.
I didn't think my post would illicit such a nasty response? It was only an opinion. First of all, nowhere did I say that the film didn't possess wit. Comden and Green were two of the wittiest Broadway librettists and Hollywood screen writers of their time. All I mentioned was that I wasn't too keen on one of the premises of the film, which is instead of creating an innovative musical, let's do an old fashion revue, because that's what the public really wants. Of course what they create with Fause is pretty extreme, therefore funny, but I think the underlying message is a direct contradiction to the types of entertainment created on Broadway at the time. On Broadway, "The King and I", "Guys and Dolls", "Kiss Me Kate", "Love Life", "Finian's Rainbow", "South Pacific, and"Lost in the Stars", were all innovative musicals with fresh, original scores. Regardless, it IS a witty original screenplay. It also seemed the fashion at MGM to utilize the catalouges of a composer to create a musical. There's nothing wrong with it, but every song would be an instant hit before the audience sees the picture. Otherwise, MGM musical films were truncated adaptations of Broadway successes, never really reaching the heights of the original stage productions. One probelem I have with "Singin in the Rain is that I prefer the original versions of many of the songs. For instance I'd much rather watch the "Broadway Rhythm" number from "Broadwa melody of 1936 with Eleanor Powell dancing, and Frances Langfor singing that the Gene Kelly version any day. I agree with you that "Bandwagon" is a fine film with great performaces, and nothing in "Singin' In the Rain" can touch the "Dancing In The Dark number, or even "The Girl Hunt Ballet". I still prefer the permise and screenplay of "Singin' In the Rain", however more obvious the humor it may be. My preference for Fred Astaire musicals will always be the best of the RKO films. They all played like French farces, the scores were fresh and I am of the opinion that with the exception of Rita Hayworth or Judy Garland, Ginger Rogers was the only co-star of his possessing acting ability and a sense of humor in the way approached their roles Nowhere did I say that Rogers was the BEST dancer he worked with. I do think that the combination of their personalities in the RKO films made some of the plots more palatable and definitely (for me) more entertaining. I agree that Cyd Charisse, Eleanor Powell, and Vera-Ellen were far superior dancers to Ginger Rogers, but none of these ladies could act well enough to create the kind of chemistry that existed between Astaire and Rogers. I don't agree with your opinion of Edward Everett Horton, and I am entitle to that ponion as well. The supporting players in the RKO films - Helen Broderick, Eric Blore and Edward Everett Horton were sensational as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, while I never cared for Jack Buchanan, he does have some very funny moments in "Bandwagon". I'm glad that you found Astaire more attractive in his later films. At the age when he did "Bandwagon", he was indeed perfectly cast. Still I much prefer the fresh scores and the young nible dancing of Astaire in his earlier films. I do hope you are able to respect a fellow film buffs opinion, because that's all it is, an opinion. Thanks for listening.
'Tis YOU who are defensive - I never attacked you, but merely pointed out
my opinion as to WHY the story Cordova comes up with in "Band Wagon" is
witty. And, therefore, why it works. "Rain's" script, brilliant though
it may be, relies on the broadness of Lina's character, as well as the
over-simplified "nice girl gets a break" character, portrayed by Debbie
Reynolds. Effective though it is, we see that time and again. In
"Band Wagon", a fairly dark musical, both Charisse and Astaire are
complex characters. This is due to the script, not just the performances
(especially Charisse, who was quite dreadful). I stand by my statement
that "Wagon" is the far more subtle, multi-layered script. In this
film, Astaire's character is dealing with age, height, even his
aknowledging he really can't do ballet. You'd never find that kind of
humility in a Kelly film.
As for the RKO films, I worship "Top Hat" and "Swing Time", both superb.
And thank GOD for Helen Broderick, who lends genuine ACTING comedy to
her roles. Horton, to me, was among the most overrated performers I've
ever watched. Apparently, he thought fussing and stuterring were
original and amusing. To me, he spoils "The Gay Divorcee" which,
despite great dance numbers, I can't sit through because of him. And
that's MY opinion.
There's an old saying that Rogers wasn't the best dancer Astaire worked
with, but she was his best partner. I agree. In fact, I'm a major
Garland fan but thank the heavens she didn't do "The Barkleys of
Broadway." At 26, she was too young to be believed as Astaire's longtime
wife. The backstory on Astaire and Rogers adds delicious layers to
"Barkleys", which remains one of my favorite films of Astaire and
Rogers.
I agree with your comments on Ellen (a convincing actress), Charisse
and Powell (both awful, especially Powell, who, when not dancing,
simply frowns or grins her way through scenes). But Astaire was
also paired with Leslie Caron and Audrey Hepburn, both good actresses.
He was also paired with the lovely Lucille Bremer, who was one of
his greatest partners. I love "Yolanda and the Thief", despite its
flaws, and their work in "Ziegfeld Follies" is among the greatest
of Astaire's work. Ever. (When people doubt his acting ability, I tell
them to watch "Limehouse Blues", where Astaire, fey and haunting as
a Chinese Londoner, tells a touching story of loneliness and utter
despair without benefit of dialogue).
If I had to only pick one segment of this man's wonderful career, it
be '44 to '57, where most of his films were produced at Metro. RKO was
never MGM, or Arthur Freed. Or Minnelli. The only film of this period
that I truly dislike is "Three Little Words", which I feel is fairly
terrible. Even the numbers, while enjoyable, are instantly forgettable.
By contrast, I enjoy "The Belle of New York", which, like "Thief", was
also a flop. What I truly want are his first two TV specials, "An
Evening with Fred Astaire" and "Another Evening..." They're not available
and I've heard they're spectacular.
I've seen the TV specials with Barry Chase and they are quire sensational. I, too am a big fan of "Yolanda and the Thief" as well. I never cared much for "Daddy Long Legs", but I never minded "Three Little Words" like you do. I really also like the "Limehouse Blues' from "Ziegfeld Follies" and thought Lucille Bremer was one of his best dance partners as well. Still, she isn't much of an actress either. I find her only passable in the brilliant "Meet Me In St. Louis". Try watching a film noir called "Dark Delusion" with Lucille Bremer. She is beyond dreadful in that. In addition, aside from a few numbers including "This Heart of Mine", "Love", and "Limehouse Blues", most of the material in Ziegfeld Follies I think is dreadful. I've never been a fan of "Barkleys of Broadway", but I do like their reprise of "They Can't Take That Away From Me". The rest of it does nothing for me.Still, I respect your opinion, even though I don't really agree. For me Fred Astaire's best period in Hollywood was 1935-1938. I also love Minnelli, but my favorite Minnelli films were "Meet Me in St. louis", The Clock", "The Pirate", "Madame Bovary" and "Gigi". "An American In Paris" and "Bandwagon" are not my favorites but I do respect those who love the films. Thanks for the response. Peace!
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Wow. I think "Follies", while highly uneven, is often brilliant, with
only occasional missteps. Besides Astaire's numbers (four total, all of
which are wonderful, even the slightly campy opening sequence), there's
Lena Horne's marvelous "Love", the gorgeous James Melton number and
several genuinely funny sequences, including "Pay the Two Dollars" and
"The Sweepstakes Ticket." True, this is sketch material, but unlike SNL,
ACTORS are doing the comedy, creating far more satisfaction. And how
often do we get to see the wonderful Fanny Brice on film? She's quite
amusing here. I can't judge Skelton as I've never really liked him.
Garland's sequence, while flawed, is more than winning due to how
stunningly gorgeous she is here, as well as the marvelous Charles
Walters' choreography. To me, the only really low points (and they're
LOW), are "Number Please" with Keenan Wynn (terrible) and the finale
with Kathryn Grayson. But the film is so unique in its bright spots.
There's never been anything like it, and no other studio could've
accomplished what Metro did in this film. But, yes, one feels somewhat
unsatisfied at the end. At least it's quickly paced and there's no
cornball plot like in "Till the Clouds Roll By."
Yes, "They Can't Take That Away From Me" is the last great dance by
Astaire and Rogers. And unlike their RKO films, the musical sequences
emphasize charm over sophistiscation. But I still love the fact that
they did "one more." In color. And at Metro.
I think Bremer is very good in "St. Louis." Her timing is wonderful
("I can't handle ten men alone - I ADMIT it"). But the direction is
so superb EVERYONE in St. Louis is great. And Bremer was an acting
genius next to Charisse and Eleanor Powell.
I was too nasty on Horton. No, I don't like him, but he was supposed to
be a very kind man and he made a lot of other people laugh.
I find it interesting that it is so often assumed that the numbers presented at the end of The Band Wagon are the segments of a revue, because I could see all of them fitting into the scenario originally described by Les and Lily Marton--an author of children's books (Triplets, Lousiana Hayride) writes lurid murder mysteries on the side (Girl Hunt); and has interactions with his publisher (I Guess I'll Have to Change My Plan) and his girl (New Sun in the Sky).
As for the Faust story as modern musical, it worked in "Damn Yankees"!
True, but "Damn Yankees" is a far cry from "The Band Wagon."
Well, that's where I have to differ from you, because I can't think of any plausible way of stringing together all those musical numbers so that they fit into a plot. Of course, we're not even seeing the highlights of one complete performance; all those songs are taken from different on-the-road tryouts across the U.S., and for all we know, they were being rewritten, moved around, or deleted altogether from the final version. We know the original plot the Martons came up with, but I just have to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the numbers as isolated performance pieces, while pretending that somewhere out there is a plot with dialogue and action that incorporates the music in a sensible way. To me, it DOES feel like a revue.
Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!
I had the feeling of a review myself. I need to watch it again, I guess.
I'm the kind of guy, when I move - watch my smoke. But I'm gonna need some good clothes though.
I agree with Barry Trexel's comparison of "The Girl Hunt" ballet with Singin' in the Rain's "Broadway Rhythm" ballet but feel compelled to mention my very favorite film musical ballet, to wit, "Slaughter on Tenth Avenue" with Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse from "Words and Music".
Only two things are actually knowable:
It is now and you are here. All else is merely a belief.
I just want to say how impressed I am by your posts.
The musical is my FAVORITE movie genre, and I'm pleased that you all are so knowledgable about it, and that you basically feel the same as I do.
While I don't agree with everything you say (I love Everett Edward Horton), still, I really love reading your comments.
So different from the trolls on IMDb.
Again, thank you.
What I never understood was the Comden and Green script, where they come up with the premise that the "forward thinking innovative musical" is something to think of as silly, repellent, and pretentious as they attempt to comically present a surreal and dissonant mucical production of "Faust". They came up with the idea that an audience would much prefer the kind of vaudeville, gee whiz entertainment that would have been considered passe in the theater at that time.
I found this off putting too. I really have nothing against the old fashioned musical but I found the Faust idea and what little we saw of it fairly interesting and when I saw the supposedly "good" stuff that finally replaced it I was less than enthusiastic. Is that hayride & triplet numbers supposed to look like good enterainment to us?
I find it interesting that it is so often assumed that the numbers presented at the end of The Band Wagon are the segments of a revue, because I could see all of them fitting into the scenario originally described by Les and Lily Marton--an author of children's books (Triplets, Lousiana Hayride) writes lurid murder mysteries on the side (Girl Hunt); and has interactions with his publisher (I Guess I'll Have to Change My Plan) and his girl (New Sun in the Sky).
Yes, I figured it out by the Girl Hunt number, but frankly other than that one the rest just isn't good. share
Yes. Each time they sang the line about the widdle gun I said, "That's awful!"
Babies have no inhibitions at all. That's probably how they really think. Ever hear of sibling rivalry?
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