MovieChat Forums > The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima (1952) Discussion > Lucia, nothing against her, was sufferin...

Lucia, nothing against her, was suffering from some...


...mental disorders. Of course she saw a "lady surrounded by light on top of a tree". It was in her brain. And only in her brain. We call it schizophrenia.

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Explain how Jacinta and Francisco (after he said the rosary during the first vision) saw the lady as well then.

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HA HA! Jacinta and Francisco were small kids. Kids can be manipulated by older kids. And while this movie "claimed" all three kids "saw the young lady radiant of light over a tree", in several articles I read said, only Lucia claimed to have seen and spoken "to the lady", and her pals Jacinta and Francisco just saw some "smoke" or "mist" on the tree. And didn't hear a thing. And keep in mind these two small kids died some time later by the influencia that struck the world after World War II. Carl Sagan, in his books "Broca's Brain" [yes, I know he was an unbeliever scientist] and "The Demon Haunted World", and Physicist and mathematician Richard Feynman, in one of his conferences of esoterica in MIT, said that these "visions" are no different than those claiming to see "ghosts, UFOs, Big Foot, Elvis sightings and Loch Ness Monsters". Is all humbug. That I am certain.
P.S.: Yes, Richard Feynman was an avowed atheist.


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Yea, the ridiculous things some people claim as the Truth! Someone tried to tell me that a baby is the result of a tiny cell from a man, coupled with an egg from a woman!? And then that grows into a full human being!?!? OMG, how absurd!


Marriage is between one man and one woman, to the exclusion of all others.

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Now you know?

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jsrrtzr10:

Jancinta Marto died in 1920 and her brother in 1919.

They died from the Spanish Flu pandemic of WW I , NOT WWII.

Get your facts correct, atheist.

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Well jsrrtzjr10 you have succeeded in restating all the arguments of the opposing viewpoint that were originally stated in the film itself. The problem is since none of us were there, we can’t say for certain what the children really saw. I would only say this: It is impossible to prove to ALL the people that God exists and it is equally impossible to prove to ALL of the people that he does not.

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The town's people invented the story. They needed tourism and money.

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Can you document that?

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Want to hit the jackpot? I am convinced.

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Convince me. I suppose if they made it all up then this clip is an exaggeration of a lie but the clip suggests a bit more was going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6SaC2t0hJs

If it is not a lie then mass hypnosis does not explain it either. Call it anti-communist propaganda but the event also makes prophetic claims. I am not a Catholic and take issue with "Mary worship" but how did little ignorant, uneducated Lucia know about World War II in 1917 (Hitler was just a soldier in the trenches in 1917)?

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No astronomer in 1917 saw the sun "jumping around". If you believe that, then you are liable to believe in Santa Claus, Dwarves living underground and Loch Ness monsters. Case closed.

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Well of course they did not see the sun. Gee I guess atheists can be as closed minded as believers. It is obvious that they saw a bright light that looked very much like the sun and it dried the earth. While it was there a few healings were reported. Whatever they saw came from behind the clouds and it frightened them. Since there are "billions" of stars and planets I don't have any trouble believing that some extraterrestrial intelligence could have caused them to see whatever they saw. Regardless, what I want to see is the proof that this never happened at all.

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With people like you believing in nonsense, no wonder the Western civilization is finally falling and Asia will rule the world in two or three decades, maybe less. And my girlfriend is Asian by the way. And that hostility toward science and scientists will make us be respected less.

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My friend you don't know what I believe and it is unwise to adopt any position without facts. Incidentally there are millions of competent, degreed professionals that believe in a Supreme Being (even nuclear physicists). Asia is older and has dominated before. History has a pendulum swing that seems to repeat itself. Western civilization has dominated since the time of Alexander but accomplished this largely by military conquest rather than intellectual enlightenment. The decline of Western civilization is not being caused by religion. Study your history a bit more and you will see that EVERY empire has eventually fallen because its system of resource distribution (i.e. economy) became unable to support its constituents (even Rome, the Mayans and Great Britain). Empires typically become wealthy by conquering and pillaging others. Unfortunately the only mechanism that postpones their eventual decline is war.

I am curious about Fatima and many, many other events (like why primitive man would build a pyramid 4500 years ago with perfect mathematical precision, aligned with the stars, thought to be a tomb but no one was ever buried in it). Such things only make me realize that we may not have all the facts (even about our own little planet).

The Hubble Telescope proves that there are billions of stars and planets so how could there only be intelligent life on one planet? Now since most “alien abductions” suspiciously occur at night in the bedroom I rather doubt most of them are anything more than “rem” sleep. However, that does not mean we are alone in the universe. The supernatural is possible but what Lucia saw may not have been of supernatural origin.

So I am still waiting for proof that this event never happened. I would also like to know how Lucia knew about World War II. Am I asking too much from the so-called enlightened mind?

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HA HA! How come I read 90% of scientists don't believe, not necessarily being atheists, in religious doctrines?. Also believe in the phony balony of "alien abduction", too? HA Decline of Western civilization has not being caused by religion? HA HA Never heard of Billy Sunday and megachurches for $$$!, Christianity trying to control our government, and Judaism dictating us our foreign polices [so call me "antisemite", love the term!] and Islam threatening us? Just arrived from one of Jupiter and Saturn's moons? I see. Keep reading pseudoscience and believing nonsense, like the Egyptian pyramids some ridiculous jerks claimed they were made by "ETs" and other balonies. Not me. I am too straight to believe in nonsense.

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Gee I guess atheists can be as closed minded as believers. I believe I said most abductions are NOT legitimate. Yep, I just reread my post and that is what I wrote. Not sure why you were unable to grasp that.

So far you have only stated your own opinions. We all know that most scientists are at odds with religion. There is nothing new in that. I stand in awe of the complexities and evolutionary (yes, I said evolutionary) strategies it takes to make life on earth possible.

So again, I am still waiting for proof that Fatima never happened. I would also like to know how Lucia knew about World War II. I am still waiting for you to present your evidence. Please, convince me.

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To quote from The Song of Bernadette:

To those who believe, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.

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So you are willing to believe in nonsense? Good.

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Instead of belittling people why not simply produce your incontrovertible evidence either for or against?

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Don't you know how to use "common sense"?

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Yes but I call it, “weighing the evidence”. Common sense once convinced people that world was flat. Rape used to be considered a “common sense” type of crime until DNA started proving that many convicted rapists were innocent (some had been locked up for 20 years). It goes without saying that for this topic you easily have the most tenable position. Yet without presenting any incontrovertible facts you reduce it down to hearsay and opinion.

I have seen objective documentaries about “Fatima” and when all the smoke cleared even credible skeptics like Joe Nickell were uncertain about what actually happened there. The story itself does not unfold in a single day. When everyone present agrees to lie, we call that a conspiracy. The problem is that aspects of this event took place on cue, had unexplainable features (like the ground drying up), hostile witnesses who also saw the event, an uneducated, illiterate girl who made accurate predictions about the future (regarding theological and political matters she did not comprehend), etc.

So the facts of this event only tell me that something happened. They do not completely convince me that it was a miracle or a hoax.

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People then didn't have the scientific knowledge as we do today in those long ago times. Therefore their "common sense" was quite "twisted".

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"Twisted" you say? Wow. I think perhaps the following says it best:

Khan Noonien Singh: "I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but how little man himself has really changed."

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Interest fact here:

Ricardo Montalban, who played Khan, actually narrated a documentary on Fatima.

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Yes he did. I think I even saw that a while back. Ricardo was always a class act. Thank you for recognizing the source of the quote.

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I NEVER said science and technology will make us better. Can't you read and think?

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Quite well in fact.

jsrrtzjr10, you are not an unintelligent man just a bit myopic (I mean no disrespect) around the edges. The only absolute is that there are no absolutes. I can say that and still believe in a higher power. Even Jesus hinted that mankind had almost no real understanding of God at all. You see, the world is far more than we know. The more mysteries I try to unravel (much by the use of etymology, historical research and scientific methodology), the more humbled I become. I have hence learned to wait for the “fat lady” to sing before making what amounts to pontifical statements.

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Twice you have been asked about the predictions and twice you have ignored the questions.You obviously cannot explain them.

I am not religious and have never had any suernatural experiences myself but family members have or claim to have and i believe tham.My mother's not a liar
For instance, my father died just over two years ago from a heart attack.He was in a nursing home at the time.
Anyway,around the same time he died a large glass cabinet in my mother's lounge room shook.
It had never happened before and has not happened since. There was no earthquake that day and it sure wasn't the wind.
Nothing else shook except that cabinet
So,what caused it and why had it never happened before or since?

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Phony balony!

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I see.You cannot explain it so it could not have happened.
My mother's not a liar.yours might be but mine isn't.
You're just an idiot.
it was also witnessed by my brother and by the way,neither of them have mental problems or drink.

So, i am still waiting for you to explain the predictions and th e cabinet rattling.IF YOU CAN!! And,do it without caling people liars,drunks or crazy.
If you are unable to do so then you completey stuff up your own argument.
:)

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HA HA! Your mother is no liar. YOU are the liar. You invented the story. So, I don't believe you. Prove your story! And I can bet you can't.

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I am not a liar at all but you are an imbecile
Disprove my story AND the predictions.IF YOU CAN!
You have conveniently ignored the predictions question 4 times
Answer it now if you can,cobber.If you cannot disprove it-and it was you who started this thread-then you lose the CASE, I am afraid.
You need to disprove EVERYTHING about it not just bits and pieces of it.You have so far disproved NONE of it just insulted people calling them liars or mad persons. Well,it takes one to know one :)


Did you use the toilet yesterday?Unless you can prove it then it's a lie
:)

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HA HA! You already lost by inventing a story. How desperate you get! HA HA! Hey, I saw Colonel Sanders, "Kentucky Fried Chicken" old guy, and Elvis mounted on Big Foot yesterday morning. Now, can I prove that one? Really? HA HA HA!

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LMAO
I didn't invent a thing and my mother and brother could both come here and tell the same story but you would only call them liars as well because you are ignorant
This thread is about YOUR trying to disprove all about this case and you have failed miserably
If you want truth then here it is
You are a laughing stock.
You come here insulting people because you cannot answer their too tough questions and cannot disprove what you set out to disprove.
Answer the questions you wre asked several times long before i even joined in this thread and then come and talk to me again,Einstein.

.

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HA HA HA HA! Keep crying, kid!

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Christians can use common sense

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The children were examined by a medical doctor several times during the visitations. They did not exhibit any of the signs associated then or now with schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has much more disorganized thinking than what was going on here. Lucia's life and writings were analyzed constantly throughout her long life and never exhibited any signs of mental illness. It's as simple as that; whatever was going on in that field, they were not mentally ill.

You've got me?! Who's got you?!

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There were far too many multiply witnessed anomalies on the 13th of each month preceding the "sun" miracle to try to pin Fatima on some kind of mental illness private to the children. Recall that _only_ the three children saw the female apparition. The crowds did not, but the crowds did see and hear inexplicable things, culminating, of course, with the "sun" miracle, which was witnessed not only by those in the Cova, but by unsuspecting people in towns miles away. Fatima is a true anomaly, whether or not one accepts the standard religious explanation.

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Thank you.

I don't know how many times these things have to be explained on this board for the benefit of "mental illness explanation" people. And they always act like they're the first ones to ever have thought of it.

You've got me?! Who's got you?!

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Regardless of mental disorder or not, the Catholic Church approved of the visions

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Atheism is cool. It allows even the stupidest persons to feel intellectually superior by just not believing.

🇺🇸 Liberty • E Pluribus Unum • In God We Trust 🇺🇸

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