MovieChat Forums > Kansas City Confidential (1952) Discussion > Some points explained *** SPOILERS

Some points explained *** SPOILERS

posted 19 years ago by djensen1
16 replies | jump to latest

Judging from the comments, some people seem to have misunderstood parts of the plot of this tense little melodrama. Caution, SPOILERS ahead....

First, Mr. Big never intended to frame our boy Joe. He disguised the getaway vehicle as a flower van by chance.

Second, the cops rough Joe up because the evidence of the van and coveralls is pretty good and he has no alibi (he should have, tho; he seemed to be delivering flowers). It’s only when they happen to find the real getaway vehicle that their confidence is shaken and they let him go.

Third, Joe had to pull strings with an old Marine buddy with shady connections to discover that a local hood had mysteriously made tracks for Tijuana right after the robbery. This was just good detective work on his part, not coincidence.

Last, Mr. Big’s intention was to double-cross his partners and turn them in for the reward money, pretending that his old cop’s instincts clued him in. This would have made his daughter proud, not suspicious.

[–] BigPerm1974 18 years ago

Good Job djensen1. This movie is a classic. I hope more people see this film. I bought it for $7.00 at Suncoast, it was apart of the 2 DVD disc 4 movie set of Film Noir. This was by far the best of the four movies. This is one of my favorite movies now.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Noirkiss_3 17 years ago

WHY DID THE cAPTAIN RUB GAS ON THE MONEY?

[–] blanche-2 17 years ago

I thought the gas spilled out of the can while he was driving. While he was cleaning up, he looked at the money and wiped it with a rag too, I thought in case the gas had soaked through the protective covering.

[–] lars_end 17 years ago

Mr Big was looking to get the $300 000 reward, and probably also planned the robbery to get reinstated in his old job after proving he still had what it takes to be a cop....Can't remember if that was made clear in the film or not!.

[–] LCShackley 13 years ago

He's not rubbing it ON the money, he's rubbing it OFF the money.

This was just a cute device to let us see where the money is hidden, before it's put on the boat.

It also might be a little joke about it being "hot" money, or being dangerous to those who handle it.

[–] mathew5000 13 years ago

I agree with LCShackley that the gasoline spilling on the money was just a device to let us see where the money is hidden.

But it did seem very weird — when watching it, I thought, oh gasoline has spilled on the money, there's going to be a big fire and all that cash will go up in smoke. Then when it was being stored on a boat, I was really looking forward to the fire. It was promising to be a super ending, but then the movie just forgot about the gasoline (wouldn't Joe at least have noticed the smell when he found the money?) and the film's actual ending was much less exciting that the one I had imagined, with over a million in cash burning up and the criminals burning with it on the boat, while the hero makes a last-minute escape.

[–] Gloede_The_Saint 17 years ago

Thats basically what I got to, although I started to be uncurtain on the frame-up thing cause it seemed like the boys new about it, but there was no other suggestions on it in there. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Somebody here has been drinking and I'm sad to say it ain't me - Allan Francis Doyle

[–] I_John_Barrymore_I 16 years ago

He may not have intended to frame Joe, but he was certainly setting him up as the fall guy, or at the very least a decoy. He knew the police would be looking for people that met a certain description, and that Joe - blissfully unaware and not interested in hiding - would very publicly meet that description.

Having watched Joe make his delivery for several days, and marking down his schedule it makes no sense to claim that Foster choosing a flower van as a getaway vehicle was a coincidence.

Chicago Cubs 86-57 / .601!

[–] badcommand 15 years ago

Having watched Joe make his delivery for several days, and marking down his schedule it makes no sense to claim that Foster choosing a flower van as a getaway vehicle was a coincidence

I agree. In fact, my impression was that by using a duplicate flower van, the guards carrying the money would not be suspicious seeing it parked there and then pulling away. The (real) van was there when they walked in and the same (duplicate) van was there when they came out with the money. Had any other sort of vehicle been used, they may have been on their guard more than they actually were.

[–] dark_frances 13 years ago

1. The disguise was definitely not by chance, Mr. Big knew that the florist's car was going to be parked there. And it wouldn't have taken much thought to figure that the first suspicion would fall on the shoulders of the florist. What he may not have known was that the florist already had a record, thus the suspicion on him fell much harder - Mr. Big may have thought that, after a brief investigation, the florist would be released with no further consequences.

2. I also agree that Joe should have had an alibi.

3. Yes, but it was a coincidence that the shady connection of Joe's old marine buddy had information precisely about Pete!

4. I agree.

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above his shoulder

[–] heyuactor 12 years ago

1. Mr. Big probably didn't care much anyway about Joe being picked up. He could/should have anticipated the beatings, though, having been on the police force there, whether Joe had a record or not.

2.Those police didn't seem like they would have cared much about any alibi.

3. Old friends who owe you are generally good for stuff in film noirs.

4.Yes.
Those things are ok with me; there are other little points that fail meticulous scrutiny, like Joe not missing his gun from his robe (after he left the pool area), even when at one point his hands are in his pockets! Oh well.

Hey Black Frances are you avoiding me since I flirted with you on that thread a while back, a thread that is missing now? Sorry if I did anything to bother you. Make believe it's nothing, ok?

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

[–] dark_frances 12 years ago

Not at all mr. Actor, I just didn't have much IMDb time lately. Besides, it's been quite a while since I last got scared because someone flirted with me . No, it's just that real life got quite colorful lately, and I realised that I like this much better than watching movies. I realised that, to a certain degree, I *was* hiding in the movies world, although what I always, what I really wanted to do was not to watch the flicks that I liked, but to *be* in them. You know, it always hurt a little while watching a Leone western, or a modern noir, I always felt a little sad that those were not *my* stories to tell, or *my* memories to relive. Well, now I am trying to settle this matter, to live the experiences I always wanted to live (well I can't live the old west and the American prohibition era in black-and-white, but I'll see what I can do), since watching movies was, to a certain degree, like watching those shadows in Plato's cave . It taught me a lot, but I want more. But I will surely return to movies, either as easy entertainment or to learn new things and new angles of exploration (for one thing, in real life I could never stare at people's faces the way I am doing while watching a flick!).
I hope all's fine with you too?
Also, dear god, I have just remembered, I am completely out of coffee! How lucky that the grocery store in Flagstone is open on Sundays. I'll be off now, you light the fire and keep an eye on those Chinese workers until I'm back...

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above her shoulder

[–] heyuactor 12 years ago

That's a fine relief, and as to the other...
life complements art, and vice-versa.

...real life got quite colorful lately...now I'm trying to settle this matter, to live the experiences I always wanted to live...

Good luck.
And yes, all's fine with me, trying to get an acting job that's got a little art in it. My agent says it'll happen (after a long dry spell), but you must know how they are, having seen Hollywood movies.

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

[–] trupodur 10 years ago

Hey how's life out of the movies? Does it pay off? Lotsa people here are thrilled with your [anti]escapistic escapade and worrying about your fate please keep us informed

[–] zafrom 8 years ago

A big thank-you to djensen1 and others for explaining some plot points. Overall, the movie is very entertaining and suspenseful, with some questionable plot points that I haven't seen addressed in other posts. For example,

1. Why does the armored car show up at the bank at the same time every morning? Carrying around so much money, how about varying the arrival times for increased security?

2. How did Tim Foster find out about the $1.2 million being held in the bank for pickup?

3. At the beginning, it's "Southwest Bank Trust & Savings Association" but later the wrappers on the banknotes show "Southwest Bank and Trust Co."

4. If Boyd Kane spent 2 years in Joliet with twitchy Jack Harris, then why didn't Kane recognize Harris's mannerisms or voice during the trips to and from the bank? (Harris said in the van, "We must have rolled 300 miles.")

5. When Kane told Joe Rolfe AKA Jack Harris that Rolfe wasn't really Harris, why didn't Rolfe claim to be a different Jack Harris? That is a much more common name than, for example, Wladziu Liberace.

6. In Mexico why was Tim Foster's vehicle carrying gasoline, on rutted dirt roads, in a container with an easy-to-open flip top?

7. Some of the wrapped banknotes were in bundles of $10000 in $50 bills, and others were in bundles of $50000 in $1000 bills (which were in distribution until 1969, per the US Treasury). Other bundles were of $5 bills. Each bundle looked about the same thickness, whether it had 50 or 200 bills. (Exploding dye packs were first used in the early 1960s, per "Where the Money Is" by Gordon Dillow and William J. Rehder.)

8. The payoff was to be at "dawn". What time exactly was that? If each accomplice would go down early to the dock so as not to be late, then wouldn't they all know who else was involved before they put their masks on? Did Tim Foster figure they already knew who the others were?

Joe Rolfe was very lucky to be alive and cleared by the end. He was also lucky in meeting and getting involved with 29-year-old Pumpkin. Aside from her wearing lots of makeup just to read by the swimming pool, she looked very fetching in her one-piece bathing suit. And she was doing something useful with her life, studying to be a lawyer. Per the Fordham Law Review, Volume 57, Issue 1 (1988) article by Judith S. Kaye, "Women Lawyers in Big Firms: A Study in Progress Toward Gender Equality": "In 1952 there were hardly any women lawyers at all -- roughly three percent of the entire profession."