MovieChat Forums > Ikiru (1956) Discussion > The Top 250 and Ikiru

The Top 250 and Ikiru


I have my suspicions of why Ikiru is not rightly honored as a top film is largely due to fanboy nerds clinging to film subjects that are in the realm of "cool."

Let's examine some of the top movies.

1.) The Shawshank Redemption: Here's a common theme - an innocent man wrongly accused is sent to prison for life. And the movie even has a happy ending! Such an obvious theme to get behind, with many elements borrowed from other prison movies. I think the reason that this film is so popular is because it codified all of the populist, prison film language leading up to that point and turned it into an artistic crowd pleaser. But for me it's hardly the best movie ever made.

2, 3) The Godfather I & II: It's about the mafia and it is romanticism of crime and violence. Isn't it cool? All kidding aside, it's obvious why the original is so hailed, but I'm not so sure about the sequel. For most people, crime oriented films are easy to get into it, rather than films about human pathos and existential crises.

4) The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: This is actually one of my favorite films. But it's another easy and obvious one for nerrrrrds. It's Sergio Leone showing the bleak, harsh amorality of the American West. Perhaps this movie belongs very high on any list, but I can see why people cling to it, especially since Quentin Tarantino named it his favorite film of all time.

5) Pulp Fiction: And it's Tarantino! What a coincidence. Tarantino is the great copy and paste artist, and a very skilful craftsman. But I've never fully bought into his fresh and original dialogue; it always feels like Tarantino is simply echoing his favorite movies as actors recite these lines through him, rather than feeling natural at all. Another movie about crime that is all about style. Easy to be cool while watching this, even if you're a nerd.

6) 12 Angry Men: What the hell? An intelligent stage-play like drama which actually has cultural value as well as artistic depth? I'm shocked to find this ranked so high, but I won't complain about it. But any kid is going to feel like a total square screening this movie for his Christopher Nolan loving buddies.

7) Schindler's List: I've only seen this once, in 1993. I won't comment on its inclusion here since it's simply a depressing film that I haven't watched twice. It has no cool factor that I'm aware of.

8) One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: Great movie, but this being ranked so high and "Five Easy Pieces" being absent from the top 250 is really a good indicator that the average movie goer enjoys being manipulated rather than thinking deeply about subjects. If Soccer Mom's made a movie list, I'm sure that "Patch Adams" would be way up there.

9) The Dark Knight 10) Inception: These movies are in vogue because the movies that surround them are so witless that these stand out as pillars of genius. I actually haven't watched these yet, but their "cool" factor is obvious.

How should a film like "Ikiru" stand a chance in any popular rankings? Look at Kurosawa himself - his Samurai epics are rightly praised, but the cool factor elevates them past work with higher cultural value, movies that could help instruct us to be better people. A film like Ikiru attempts to deal with problems that most people don't want to consider or even think about. I like this Roger Ebert quote about the film:

"I think this is one of the few movies that might actually be able to inspire someone to lead their life a little differently."

A films "cultural value" is something I determine by its actual worth to the people viewing it - to examine their own lives and possibly better themselves as a result, and influence their behavior, however subtle, in the world around them. Films about the mafia and Batman aren't going to do that.

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Well put, well written. Thanks.







KIAI ... please.

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Yes i know Imbd Top 250 really joke

My TOP 150 Movies -http://www.imdb.com/list/iFa7p7uwsr8/

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And now they increased the minimum votes from 3000 to 25000 and Ikiru goes out.. DAMN..

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I hadnt realised about the rule change so thanks for clarifying. I was working my way through the Top 250 when all of a sudden 20 odd films dropped off it overnight. Stupid IMDB!!

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I think ti is a good rule, albeit the limit may be set a bit too high. I think a film has to be relatively widely known (certain number of votes) before it could be considered as top 250 most popular films list (because thats what the list is, 250 most popular films). Nowadays that even your run of the mill TV show can easily get 50-60 thousand votes on IMDB, achieving 25 thousand shouldnt be hard for a good movie.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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Firstly, I agree with your assessments of the Chris Nolan movies you included on this post...but given that you haven't seen them you are just using other people's opinions, so really, what do you know?

No proper film fan, as in, watches all films, whether they are silent, foreign, different genres.....can ever take the IMDB ratings seriously! IMDB is far too popular and it gives 13 year olds the ability to vote. Enough said.

My advice to you is don't take notice of where it is rated etc. You like Roger Ebert, great. See what he thinks about each film, and leave IMDB alone. You've just done the equivalent of going onto a soccer mum's blog and blasting her for saying that Patch Adams is her favourite film.

Now for your final paragraph...yes, cultural value is important, but people can subjectively like whatever they want. I personally think The Good, The Bad and the Ugly is the 52nd Greatest Film Ever, and Ikiru is the 40th. Do the Godfather films have cultural value? YES! Sure, we aren't in the mafia but weren't those films really about the value (and fragility) of Family and about how a man with power can become a megalomaniac. People from 1930's Germany may see parts of the Godfather in their lives. And the Nolan Batman films are good, not great, not classics (and not in my top 100) but good none the less.

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Actually, I honestly have my doubts about these Nolan films deserving to be in the top 250. They're good movies indeed, but come on, not that good. Probably the most overrated Nolan film is The Prestige, no way it's a Top 250 movie. I also gotta say that it's an absurd that one of the Harry Potter movies are in this top 250. Those flicks all deserve to be in the Bottom 100 at best.




Yeah, well, that's just like... My opinion, man

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Ikiru IS in Top 250...lol...

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Funny that you're laughing at someone like that "...lol..." like he's so stupid. When he made the thread 2 years before you replied, so Ikiru obviously was not in the Top 250 when he made the thread.

...lol...

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Good thing IMDB does keep historical lists then. Lets see:
2010: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059103477/?start=1&view=compact
Ikiru is on the list at 175 place.
2011: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059100220/?start=1&view=compact
Ikiru is on the list at 143 place
2012: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059100236/?start=1&view=compact
Ikiru dissapears from the list for whatever reason
2013: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059751609/?start=1&view=compact
Ikiru reappears on the list in 120th place
2014: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls073255328/?start=1&view=compact
Ikiru is still on the list.


So as we can see it was indeed gone for one year.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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Well, I do think some of those movies you listed in the top 10 are indeed great. The Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather I & II, Pulp Fiction, 12 Angry Men, Schindler's List, The Dark Knight; I think all of those are excellent for different reasons. Now, are they all necessarily among the top 10 greatest films of all time? No, but this is the IMDB top 250 so I wouldn't get too worked up about it. In fact I think members on this site could do much, much worse than the current top 10 lineup. Although I am always baffled by Fight Club's position at #10. It's a good movie, but nowhere near as great as many make it out to be.

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If you haven't seen Dark Knight or Inception it's unfair to blame 'fanboy nerds' for the reason for Ikiru's lowly placing.

I have only seen Ikiru today and gave it 9. Most people I know have an aversion to movies with sub-titles, it doesn't mean it is a bad movie. Although I am wondering what upset the Females aged 45+ to rate is so lowly.

If you can't use IMDb as a tool to see/judge great movies then what is the point of taking government election polls if nobody is going to take any notice of them

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Sometimes you have to let the old ones go and make spaces for the new ones. Ikiru was a great movie in 1952 but its not now. As metropolis (1927). I think peoples opinion always choose those movies that can make through time. Ikiru is placed where it belongs. But i think it will not be in top 3000 if it is voted 1.4 million or more like dark knight.

The least vote to get on IMDB top 250 must be turn into 50000+

Only 25000 peoples opinion cannot judge a movie's greatness.I think it's time.

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"Only 25000 peoples opinion cannot judge a movie's greatness".

A whole one million philistines cannot "judge" a film any better than one single philistine. And that's what most IMDb users inevitably are - opinionated philistine fanboys with no knowledge of film or historical perspective, looking at cinema as if it were a sporting event and therefore putting much too much stock in the IMDb ratings - which means that not only are they gonna vote their favourite superhero movie a 10, but also make sure the rivalling films get a 1.



"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

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Lets not pretend like the film conisseurs are any better in this regard, prasing and upvoting their favorite movies while opepnly advocating for people to vote-bomb those "Cartoon superhero movies"

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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