MovieChat Forums > The Greatest Show on Earth Discussion > *WHY* it's the worst Best Picture ever

*WHY* it's the worst Best Picture ever


People have to remember the Academy votes on five nominees. In a great year, the winner of Best Picture needs to garner only 20% of the vote, plus one.

There've been a lot of good years (1939 anyone?), and 1952 wasn't so shabby. Coop in "High Noon," John Wayne in "The Quiet Man," and Jose Ferrer in "Moulin Rouge," surely got a lot of votes from the Academy that year. Liz Taylor was hot in a (crappy, but nominated) "Ivanhoe."

So all it took, probably (and we'll never know unless somebody bribes someone at Price-Waterhouse), was a 20-something percent of the vote to win.

Further, the Academy *did* honor other films. Coop was Best Actor that year for "High Noon." John Ford was Best Director for "The Quiet Man." Jean Hagen probably lost Best Supporting Actress because the year before Judy Holliday won Best Actress playing, essentially, the same character.

But this was 1952! The year of the trans-continental coaxial cable! Don't know about it? It was a big deal at the time. All of a sudden all of the United States was wired for television and Hollywood was scared spitless.

All of a sudden Hollywood went for technicolor and Cinerama and "big" movies; stuff you couldn't see on your 16" Admiral TV.

DeMille's epic was nostalgia-meets-nostalgia. It's the story of a circus coming to grips with changing tastes, mixed with a certain amount of documenary-worthy behind-the-scenes stuff about how the circus works. I've been to a few circuses in my day, but I'm told that the first one was during the last year Ringling Bros & Barnum & Bailey performed under canvas; before they went to indoor arenas. I think I remember a few of those moments. Or maybe it's DeMille's opus. Either way, TGSOE is a good historical record.

"Will they go another season 'under the Big Top,' just as every "big top" movie house in America was suffering because of Uncle Milty and "I Love Lucy?" (In fact, Lucille Ball was originally cast for Gloria Grahame's Oscar-winning Supporting Actress role and had to drop out because she became pregnant with "Little Ricky.)

It was a confluence of circumstances (as are many Academy Awards, like when Liz Taylor won for "BUtterfield 8" simply because she was on her assumed death bed just as the voting deadline approached). As a result, TGSOE isn't simply the worst Best Picture on record, it's the longest movie ever made; or, at least, seems like it.

It's a big, sloppy, sentimental, schlocky, sappy, overblown, Technicolor time capsule of a time that never really existed. It's maybe old Hollywood's obituary. And maybe, just maybe, 20-something percent of 1952's Academy voters knew it.

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I don't think this is the worst I mean that Braveheart is the worst and I stand on it.

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Well, it's not the worst Best Picture of all time - Titanic and Oliver are worse. Now, neither of those are bad films - just not Best Picture material. Same here. Like those, it's entertaining, but highly flawed, and had many superior contemporaries.


To the person who said "Braveheart" was the worst, I wonder if you by any chance actually [u[saw[/u] Braveheart? Maybe you saw something else. Mel Gibson's masterpiece was one of the most thrilling and inspiring artistic ahievements of the 20th century, and even against tough competition (1995 was a spectacular year for movies - Heat, Twelve Monkeys, Rob Roy, Apollo 13, Sense and Sensibility, The Usual Suspects, Babe, Toy Story, and so forth), it deserved every accolade it got, plus more. You can argue that the villains weren't the most three-dimensional, but that actually aids the film's sweep and power.


Anyway, that aside, in general, I agree with the original poster. There were some darn good films in 1952, and the probably split the vote and let Greatest Show take the cake. Like Titanic, it also came along at just the right time, and was a box office smash.

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Too bad the movie is totally & completely inaccurate. Most of the events that the movie portrayed *never happened*. Of what value is a historical film if the original hero never did the events portrayed on film?

As for story quality, it's okay I guess.
I've never been impressed by testosterone-pumped yelling.
A guy going "grunt" and flashing his butt isn't high art.

(BTW, the real braveheart never had a kilt.)


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We should probably argue about Braveheart on another forum - like, I don't know, maybe the Braveheart forum...

Anyway, the movie isn't about historical accuracy. It's about the legend of William Wallace, not the real man. The film's style makes this clear. I dearly love history, and am overjoyed when a film portrays events accurately, but that doesn't make a great film. The 2004 version of The Alamo is highly accurate, but it isn't as good a piece of spectacle and entertainment as John Wayne's version.

At any rate, the purpose of film is to entertain, engage the emotions, and provoke thought. It doesn't have to do all of those; just a strong job on either of the first two is fine. It doesn't have to follow history to do so; sometimes, by telling a true story in a fictionalized manner, it can come to a greater truth or evoke emotions on a scale that the true story couldn't have reached. Braveheart certainly matches this criteria.

Look at (to be almost on-topic) Cecil B. DeMille's historical films. They throw history to the four winds, but you can't say they don't entertain on some level.

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It was a long film but one of my all time best. I saw it 11 times when it first came out. I enjoyed the songs (Dorothy L) and the train wreck.







" All that there really is to life is what happens next " from The Misfits 1961

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argue on the braveheart (crummymovie) forum do we remake the greatest show on earth

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LOL at Stein-e thinking that Braveheart is the worst best movie ever.



www.myspace.com/littlegoldwoman

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Not ever just to win best picture.

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LOL at Stein-e for thinking Braveheart is the worst film to ever win best picture.

You need to see or rewatch:

Out Of Africa

Lawrence of Arabia

How green was my valley

Oliver

The French Connection

Annie freakin Hall OMG! BORING!

Chariots of Fire... really? Braveheart is worse than Chariots of Fire!

COME ON!




www.myspace.com/littlegoldwoman

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Lawrence of Arabia may bee the singel greatest movie ever.

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LOL

tolerable but definately not the best.


AWWW are you really just 15?

Surely you havent seen all the best movies yet... which ones havent you seen?

And why the heck dont you like Braveheart?
Is it personal twords Mel?


www.myspace.com/littlegoldwoman

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Well of the movies considered to be the greatest I have not seen Citizen Kane, 12 Angry Men, Sunset Blvd., Maltese Falcon and Phats of Glory (of IMDB top 60)

And I don't like Braveheart because I don't think it's a good movie and I don't like Mel Gibson (I like his 80's work) for no good reason I just simple don't.

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mmm Citizen Kane and Sunset Blvd... both very good.

Maltese Falcon.. ok

phats of glory i dont know what that is.



www.myspace.com/littlegoldwoman

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I think he meant "Paths of Glory", he just typed it too fast...

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You present your opinions as if they were facts. Stop it!

"Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects". Will Rogers (1879-1935)

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Lawrence of Arabia? Mentioning that movie in any sort of "worse of..." list just completely omitted the rest of your post from discussion.

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LOA was incredibly boring to me.

Didnt move me at all.
Just a lot of sand.



www.myspace.com/littlegoldwoman

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Come on, littlegoldwoman Lawrence of Arabia and How green was my valley are not only wonderful movies, but masterpieces of cinema, and definitely better than the overrated Braveheart.

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I just finished watching "The Greatest Show on Earth" as part of my every-Best-Picture quest, so I've now seen 69 out of 80, including each of the last 56. I thought it was interesting, though I'm not quite sure how much I buy the overlapping love triangles; more importantly I think it really suffers from being 2 hours and 35 minutes long (though based on the original post in this thread I can understand why).

My bottom several Best Pictures are:

1935 - Mutiny on the Bounty. If Stein-e hated Braveheart for historical inaccuracy, then I hate Mutiny on the Bounty for the same reason. If you value historical accuracy, seek out the 1984 version with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson. Many of the scenes are straight out of William Bligh's memoirs.

1941 - How Green Was My Valley. Boring.

1944 - Going My Way. Corny. Good for "Swinging on a Star" then move along.

1958 - Gigi. Tedious. Good for "Thank Heaven for Little Girls" then move along.

1971 - The French Connection. I would like to have liked this film, but I saw it three times and was never able to follow it.

1983 - Terms of Endearment. Had me, then lost me.

1998 - Shakespeare in Love. Contrived.

2002 - Chicago. I was rooting for Roxie to get the chair.

I don't remember Out of Africa or The English Patient well enough to say if I'd put them at the bottom.

My top 15 Best Pictures so far include Rebecca, Casablanca, The Best Years of Our Lives, All About Eve, A Man for All Seasons, Patton, The Godfather, The Sting, The Godfather Part II, Gandhi, Amadeus, Unforgiven, Braveheart, The Departed, and No Country for Old Men.

(The ones I'm yet to see: Wings, The Broadway Melody, Cimarron, Cavalcade, The Great Ziegfeld, You Can't Take It With You, Gone With the Wind [yeah, I've never seen it], Mrs. Miniver, Gentlemen's Agreement, Hamlet, and An American in Paris.)

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Re your comment about "Mutiny on the Bounty", "The Bounty" (Hopkins and Gibson) is based on fact. The "Mutiny on the Bounty" films are based on the novel, which is based "loosely" on fact. They're two different things really, with different dramatic prerogatives. Don't mean to be a stickler, but there it is.

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The French Connection was a masterpiece

"I wear my sunglasses at night"

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You think Braveheart is /better/ than Chariots of Fire and The French Connection? Better than Lawrence of Arabia? I haven't seen the others, but those three are some of the best movies made, man. Braveheart is a superhero story with kilts (and I do love my comic books, but Best Pictures, they're not)

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<It is certainly not my favourite film (yes, I agree that it is a bit overblown) but I rate it ahead of Terms of Endearment. Or as I liked to rename it after I saw it "Terms of Endurement".>

This movie for me personally, wasn't a favorite either, mostly because I'm not a circus fan, & I don't like Betty Hutton much(sorry Hutton fans).

The pluses were the train wreck & seeing the stars do their own stunts.

As for Terms of Endearment, I liked it, but that movie was such a tearjerker, it made me feel down. I remember seeing it in the theater, people bursting into tears.

Other movies that were long & big whoopie doos at Oscar time were A Passage to India & the English Patient. A lot thought they were boring, & I think English Patient won as Best Picture.

I often find the cinematography & music.....and maybe a scene or two.....are the best thing about the long, but mostly unexciting 'Best Picture of' films.

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Wow Lawrence of Arabia and Annie Hall are amazing. How Green Was My Valley and Out of Africa are both good. I haven't seen all of Oliver!. The French Connection is decent but overrated. Chariots of Fire is only ok, so I agree with that. I put Braveheart after the first four, and maybe behind The French Connection.

My three favorite films (order changes): Vertigo, Taxi Driver, and 2001: A Space Odyssey

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Lawrence of Arabia was one of BEST MOVIES EVER
Braveheart & Annie Hall wer great too

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You need help guy. Braveheart is a masterpiece. Shame on you for saying that. Your probably one of those idiots who think Star Wars is an art film.

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WHAT!!!!?????

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Classicmoviecomedy, that was a wonderfully insightful post.

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Braveheart is a great movie. And even if it was one of the worst movies of all time, I would give it an Oscar for Longshanks throwing the homo out the window.

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I'd be hard pressed to come up with the most boring movie of all time. "Spartacus" was big bore..."Cleopatra" with Liz Taylor was an even bigger bore. I don't think "The Greatest Show on Earth" qualifies as a boring movie. It is a bit schlocky in places...but it's great entertainment...and as far as I am concerned...the movies are all about being entertained. DeMille knew how to produce an entertaining movie. His movies are sometimes predictable...but rarely boring. Go see "artsy" movies, or "movies with a message" if that's your fare. I'd rather be entertained.

LionHearted

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I'm a huge fan of High Noon and the (not nominated) Singin' in the Rain. However, I really do believe that The Greatest Show on Earth justifies its Oscar for Best Picture-

1) The cast work brilliantly together and it's fantastic to see them doing their own stunts (especially Cornel Wilde on the trapeze).

2)The spectacular, original, shocking, climactic train wreck scene- words don't do it justice, it's magnificently directed I'd watch the entire film again if only to see this scene.

3)It's a long film but you won't be looking at your watch waiting for it to draw to a close.

Finally, though the aforementioned films would be regarded as superior to Cecil B. DeMille's extravaganza, I feel it deserved its award for Best Picture, not just as a tribute to DeMille, but because I honestly believed that the production deserved it.

B.

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I too honestly believe that "Greatest Show" deserved Best Picture. The cast, the production values, the costumes...oh those costumes.....(why didn't it win best costumes???)....pure entertainment and compared to today's movies....pure gold!! I love this film!!

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I can't understand why Singin' in the Rain wasn't nominated.

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Good question! I believe, only Jean Hagen was nominated for Best Supporting Actress.

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SINGIN' IN THE RAIN was not nominated because the Best Picture award of the previous year was AN AMERICAN IN PARIS, and the Academy obviously didn't want to give its Oscar to a musical two years in a row.
Especially a Gene Kelly musical! LOL.

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Crash, Out of Africa, and Forrest Gump are a few questionable Best Picture Oscar winners to say the least. However, while this film may not be Best Picture material, it's a great film, very well acted, directed, and beautifully shot. The crowd scenes are magnificently done. Many of the actors/actresses performed their own stunts (or at least some of them). It's very entertaining, one of the best films ever made about the circus.

It's possible that it won Best Picture because of the McCarthy era. The year was 1952, and McCarthy was at the height of his power then. DeMille was a well known Republican and very anti-Communist, so this could have been more of a political move by the Academy. Who knows?

It's still a good film, though not a Best Picture.

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"It's possible that it won Best Picture because of the McCarthy era."

I don't think so. Hollywood has always been to "the left" so to speak. I think it had more to do with an even greater fear within the community than either communism or McCarthyism -- the burgeoning popularity of that little grey box appearing in living rooms across the country. You couldn't see anything like TGSOE on the tube. And, as Bob Hope once said, (paraphrasing here) "C.B. DeMille has brought something new to movie theatres this year. They're called customers."

That, I think, and the fact that TGSOE worked well enough to satisfy more critics than the other nominees, even the New York film school types. A significant occurance for a DeMille picture: The seamless integration of melodrama and a rare (at that time) documentary style. Great script considering the challenge (the script won, too), appropriately "corny" acting styles, historical significance (the circus was dying as a "big top" event), creativity (big star cameos and original songs) . . . and its exuberant "heart".

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Well, that's certainly an opinion, though not one shared by me. The Oscars make little sense to me anyway. . . It's impossible to pick a "Best Picture" in any case. In addition, there are so many films which have, over time, been re-evaluated from Oscar loser into a kind of cinematic immortality. Eg., "Citizen Kane", "The Searchers", "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance", The Wizard of Oz", "High Noon", and on and on and on . . .

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Crash and Out of Africa are, to me, the worst of the best picture winners. In fact it was Out of Africa that caused the Oscars to lose, in my mind, a load of credibility. And Crash was just nearly god-awful-laughable.

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I just saw this movie for the first time and I thought it went on forever. I'd have to rate it alongside 'Oliver!' for the worst movie ever to win best picture.

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I've seen over 80 percent of Oscar BP winners, so I will say my piece (keep track at listsofbests).

My least favorite has been the Broadway Melody with the leads Anita Page and Bessie Love that are quite ingrating. Cimarron is somewhat racist, pacing is not great, but love Richard Dix's voice and complete overacting :D (I also liked him in Ghost Ship). Gentleman's Agreement is somewhat dated, but not too bad (an easy way to possible get nominated for BP is to have a film on race issues, but still be benign.) I didn't find The Life of Emile Zola that interesting either (not a bad film though). Almost all picks you can find a better film that year (easier if you include non-English films :)).

But many pics do not bother me too much like Lawrence of Arabia or Casablanca.

I just got this film "Greatest Show on Earth" so I decided to check out the IMDB pages and read some of these threads.

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I'd like to know how many of you have actually seen EVERY best picture winner. I'd be suprised if ANY of you have. I mean, every single one-- counting the 2 winners in 1928 and the lone winner from every year that followed. Well, I have. I can't believe anyone would say that this film is the WORST after sitting through CIMARRON - the absolute WORST best picture winner. The Broadway Melody was horrible also. Gentleman's Agreement - I understand was important in its day, but that was a very bad reason to award it the best picture oscar. today, it has fallen into obscurity and has aged terribly. It's not hard to see why.

It seems like a lot of people are perhaps naming films like "The Greatest Show on Earth" "Forrest Gump" and "How Green Was My Valley" THE WORST EVER just because they beat out more deserving films. It is too bad that Singin in the Rain, The Shawshank Rendemption, and Citizen Kane did not win best picture, but that doesn't make these films THE WORST EVER...

about the original poster.... it's really pathetic to see someone write that much about of their dislike for one film.

I'm trying to see every best picture winner, and I agree that there are definately worse ones than this. I actually loved Greatest Show on Earth and How Green Was My Valley (people dismiss that one too readily just because it beat out you know what). Can you imagine what kind of a challenge Greatest Show on Earth must have been like to make back in the early '50s??

But I'd have to say that Amadeus has been one of my least favorites thus far. I know so many people love it but I found it boring. I also liked French Connection but didn't get was made it so great to others. No Country For Old Men didn't do much for me either. I thought Atonement was better.

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i've seen all the BP winners... and there are lots of bad-to-not-so-great in that bunch. there are only nine in the entire history of the award i agree with.

i just wanted to chip in here and defend that guy who said braveheart was terrible, because i agree. it felt made-for-tv and was full of horribly cliched characters and situations. it moved me only toward annoyance. when it was nominated i was shocked. when it won, well... i guess dances with wolves won, too.

in my opinion, silence of the lambs is not a bad movvie, but it was so incredibly over-rated in that awards season... i don't get the public's love affair with lector. "oh, the irony," i guess.

i won't dwell anymore on the worst, but i will instead list the films i agree on that the academy deemed "best" of their year:

and, since i will not promote the idea that film didn't exist prior to the oscars, i'll give a nod to the 150-odd good films i've seen released prior to that first award season...

*nod*

1934: it happened one night
1935: mutiny on the bounty
1939: gone with the wind
1942: casablanca
1953: from here to eternity
1962: lawrence of arabia
1972: the godfather
1974: the godfather, part ii
1993: schindler's list

two of those i lay on the grounds that they came out in weak years.




"Rampart: Squad 51."

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The Academy Awards are typically given to the most prestigious films released in a given year.

Take a look at "The Greatest Show on Earth" in the context of 1952 and it's easy to see why it won.

From my earlier notes on the film:
"In many ways, it's DeMille's "8 1/2", a self-reflective look at show
business, achieved by a director at the end of an incredibly long and
successful career. The circus is the perfect metaphor for DeMille's
cinema-on the surface, it appears as slick, shallow entertainment, while the
audience never sees the hard work involved in pulling such entertainment off
flawlessly.

Indeed, Heston's character resembles nothing so much as a movie director,
holding reign over his "set", in this case a circus. And while some have
claimed that the film does not fit into the "historical epic" camp that
DeMille usually worked in, I would argue that the film is indeed a
historical epic of a bygone era of American entertainment (indeed, the
big-top circus was in its last season when the film was shot).

The circus has, strangely, never been a terribly popular subject in American
cinema. It's either treated as a subject of nostalgia, observed from a safe
distance, or as a object of horror and sleaze (usually these depictions are
neither very convincing nor terribly deep in any respect, using the circus
as a backdrop rather than as a real character). Perhaps because, in the last
50 years, the circus has virtually disappeared from the scene. Also,
perhaps, because the cinema and the circus are just too "close" to eachother
for comfort. There have always been the popular stories of "running away to
join the circus", and of course of the melodrama under the big-top, with
films like TRAPEZE. Other films use the circus and carnival atmosphere as a
source of horror (much of Tod Browning's films were set in seedy circuses,
most notably FREAKS and THE UNKNOWN). Very few American filmmakers have
really examined the dynamics of the circus by examining the artists as real
people rather than "types", and DeMille achieves that here with startling
success. DeMille also isn't afraid to let his camera linger on scenes of the
artists preparing for their acts, faithfully recording the performers and
performances in close detail. Plot-wise, the film doesn't really call for
the length of time that was used to tell the story, but watching the film on
repeated viewings, it becomes apparent that DeMille was far more interested
in exploring the show business aspects and in recording the acts for
posterity at the same time. Given its self-relexive nature on show business
and acting as an elegy for a dying entertainment industry (remember that the
Hollywood studio system model was in its death throes when this film was
made, giving way to new, independent models and television), it's no wonder
that the Academy gave it the Best Picture award that year."


____
View my films at: www.youtube.com/comedyfilm

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For some reason people in this thread completely ignored the point made in the OP: Hollywood was scared to death of television in 1952.

TV's were flying off the shelves and game/variety shows were being replaced by high quality comedy and drama - in 1952 the top two shows were I Love Lucy and Dragnet (in its 2nd season).

What better way to tell people why they should go to movie theaters than to give the Best Picture Oscar to the most over-the-top movie of the year?

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Just looked at the list of oscar winning movies and I have come to the conclusion that TGSOE is actually one of the BEST oscar-winning movies. Seriously!

"The internet is for lonely people. People should live." Charlton Heston

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