MovieChat Forums > The Bad and the Beautiful (1953) Discussion > Jonathan, Goucho and Mrs. Bartlow

Jonathan, Goucho and Mrs. Bartlow

posted 16 years ago by Mister_Scratch
5 replies | jump to latest

What was Jonathan trying to do with Goucho and Mrs. Bartlow? Was he merely trying to occupy Mrs. Bartlow just for the weekend to let James finish the script or was he trying to induce an affair to get James away from his wife permanently so she wouldn't interfere with his work ever again? Or are his intentions something else that is meant to be ambiguous and left up to the viewer?

[–] aciolino 16 years ago

Jonathan was not THAT evil. But he was pretty bad.

No, I think it's pretty much what he said it was, he wanted Mrs. Bartlow to be entertained (even if it meant having and affair) in order to let Dick Powell finish his script.

[–] lordxur 16 years ago

I would agree, except what does Jonathan say to James as they're about to go on vacation, about "She held you back", and "You're better off without her."

Jonathan probably didn't INTEND for James's wife to run off with Gaucho, but was not in any way guilty about the outcome.

[–] spencerc2217 8 years ago

In response to luxdoor, Douglas spoke those lines later, after he accidentally revealed he was behind setting up Mrs Bartlow with Gaucho.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

spencerc2217 says > Douglas spoke those lines later, after he accidentally revealed he was behind setting up Mrs Bartlow with Gaucho.

I didn't understand the accidental reveal at all. I suspected it was coming and was waiting to see how it would unfold but when it did, it didn't make sense. All Shields said was he told Gaucho not to take that plane.

It might appear he knew Gaucho was going to take a trip but why would Bartlow jump to the conclusion that Shields knew Rosemary would be with him? We know Bartlow's assumption was correct but he wouldn't have had enough information to know it.

Was it because Shields suddenly stopped talking? That couldn't be it either. He may have stopped himself because he remembered Rosemary was on the plane and died. Talking about Gaucho's exploits and reminding Bartlow that his wife was probably running off with Gaucho did not seem appropriate. Again, it was not enough to suggest to Bartlow that Shields knew or, worse, arranged it.

I told myself Bartlow never knew Shields had arranged for Gaucho to squire Rosemary. He became upset with Shields because he said what Bartlow did not want to hear. Rosemary was involved with Gaucho; it was her own fault that she died; and he, Bartlow, was better off without her.

Had he known of Shields' direct involvement he probably would have been more upset and never could have entertained the possibility of working with him again. He would not have sat in on Pebbel's meeting and agreed to have him call Shields.

Is that how others saw it too or did I miss something about the reveal that let Bartlow know right away what Shields had done?

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

Mister_Scratch says > What was Jonathan trying to do with Goucho and Mrs. Bartlow? Was he merely trying to occupy Mrs. Bartlow just for the weekend to let James finish the script or was he trying to induce an affair to get James away from his wife permanently so she wouldn't interfere with his work ever again?

At first I thought Shields was only trying to get Gaucho to keep Rosemary busy so her James Lee could focus on writing the script. Even though he was taking him out of town, he knew Rosemary would call constantly and might even make her way out to where he was.

Shields obviously knew Gaucho's reputation and he knew Rosemary could be charmed but I did not think he expected it to go further than a simple flirtation. After their deaths, when it appeared Rosemary may have been headed to Mexico for a quick divorce I think Shields, being who he is, justified his actions. He let himself off the hook and blamed Rosemary for having been ready to leave her husband.

From then on, he saw it as a good thing for Bartlow and even told him he was better off he was rid of her; the same thing he would have said had she lived and succeeded in running off with Gaucho. This assumption is based on Shields' own admission that he thought women got in the way. They wanted to own men and keep them from fulfilling their full potential.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]