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Guidons and the Reason for Custer's Defeat

posted 7 years ago by MAGolding (1096)
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Guidons are a type of flag in the US army. Almost every company in the army has a guidon. A typical guidon is fork tailed, the color of the army branch, with the branch insignia in the center and the regimental number above and the company letter below, with the battalion number, if any, at the lance edge of the guido.

Except in the US cavalry, the only branch that used guidons back in the 19th century. From 1833 to 1862 the guidons were divided horizontally, red above and white below, with white letters "U.S." above and the company letter below. From 1862 to 1885 guidons had the stars and stripes pattern similar to the US flag. And from 1885 to the present cavalry guidons are divided horizontally, red above and white below, with the regimental number in white above and the company letter in red below.

In western movies the most common type of cavalry guidon is the 1833-1862 pattern, since the same prop could be used for different cavalry regiments, and the second most common is probably the 1885 to present pattern, which many movie makers could have seen in real life and newsreels. The design with the stars and stripes that was actually used in 1862 to 1885, when most most cavalry movies are set, was used in many fewer movies than the others.

And some movies show the cavalry using guidons, standards, and flags that were never carried by the US Cavalry!

The only western movie that I have seen that explicitly shows that all twelve companies of the Seventh Cavalry were present at the Little Bighorn was Custer's Last Fight (1912, 1925, 1933) a silent film with titles, some of the titles showing the guidons with regimental number and company letter of each detachment of the Seventh Cavalry on June 25, 1876. As far as I know other movies about the Battle of the Little Bighorn are vague about how many companies of the Seventh Cavalry were present.

In The Plainsman (1936) in the scene where Hickock and Cody capture an Indian, played by Anthony Quinn, who tells them about Custer's Last Stand, he has a captured guidon with the number "7" above and the letter "E" below, the guidon of troop or company E of the Seventh US cavalry. Company E was part of the battalion wiped out in Custer's Last Stand.

Earlier the Cheyenne ambush a troop of cavalry numbering 46 men under Captain Wood, sent by Custer with ammunition from Fort Hays to Fort Piney. This troop is besieged for over a week in scenes inspired by the Battle of Beecher Island in 1868 and almost all the soldiers are killed or seriously wounded. Thus almost all of the men in the troop would be unavailable for duty when Custer rides out to fight Sitting Bull soon after.

And in scenes of the besieged soldiers I could see the letter "B" in the bottom half of their guidon. I couldn't see the Regimental number in the top half. If the company B that suffered severe losses was company B of the Seventh Cavalry that would significantly weaken Custer right before the Little Bighorn. In real life Company B of the 7th Cavalry was assigned to guard the pack train and participated in the Reno-Benteen fight on Reno Hill on June 25-26.

Note that in Little Bighorn (1951) a detacjment of cavalry racing to the Little Bighorn to warn Custer he is badly out numbered (and thus obviously not part of his column) has a guidon with the letter "C" and no regimental number. Thus they are part of troop C of some cavalry regiment. If they are part of troop C of the Seventh Cavalry (which was in Custer's Last Stand in real history) Company C will have fewer men available than in real history.

In Warpath (1951) a troop of the Seventh Cavalry suffers heavy casualties in a fight on a river island soon before the Little Bighorn. This fight, like the one in The Plainsman (1936) is obviously inspired by the Beecher Island Fight in 1868.

In Bugles in the Afternoon (1952) a troop of the Seventh Cavalry suffers heavy casualties - in a fight obviously inspired by the Wagon Box Fight in 1867 - soon before the Little Bighorn.

So in any fictional universe that includes The Plainsman (1936), Little Bighorn (1951), Warpath (1951), and Bugles in the Afternoon (1952) three of the twelve companies of the Seventh Cavalry that were in the Little Bighorn campaign in real life would have suffered heavy casualties soon before the campaign began, while a fourth may have been detached for other duties and not with Custer's command.

So in any wild west movie universe including those four movies the Seventh Cavalry would have been much weaker at the Little Bighorn than it was in real life, and thus the four movies can be thought of as unintentionally providing a fictional explanation for Custer's defeat that isn't valid in real life. The 7th needed fewer troopers at the Little Bighorn "Like Custer needed more Indians", as the saying goes.

[–] MAGolding (1096) 5 years ago

07-26-19. Watching Little Bighorn again yesterday and today I found it very hard to see any details on the upper half of the guidon carried by the patrol, just a "C" on the lower part. In a couple of scenes I got a really good look at the upper half of the guidon and it seemed completely bare. The only time I thought I saw markings on the upper part of the guidon was after it fell to the ground in the last fight. This is not the first black and white western movie I have seen where the upper half of a guidon looks bare and unmarked.

1. Possibly the guidon props used in some movies were bare and unmarked in the upper part which might have the regimental number.

2. Possibly the colors used for the guidon props used in black and white westerns were made with colors that didn't contrast very well. Thus there could be markings on the upper parts of those guidons which just don't show up. On the other hand, other black and white movies do have clearly visible markings on the upper parts of guidons, and markings on the lower parts of the guidons usually show up fine in black and white movies.

3. Possibly some markings were painted on the upper part of the guidon used in Little Big Horn but quickly faded or washed away in the weather and so didn't show up in any close shots of the guidon.

But even though I couldn't see any marks on the top part of the guidon during scenes in the movie proper, close ups of a fluttering guidon were seen under the opening and closing title cards. Those clearly show a dark upper half with lighter colored crossed sabers and above them a number "7", and a lighter lower half with a dark letter "C". So the guidon seen in the opening credits is clearly supposed to be that of Company C of the 7th Cavalry.

Private David Mason said his father was Sergeant Mason of D troop. And the others are probably all members of the 7th cavalry. If They were all from company C they would be about 0.25 to 0.33 of its normal strength.