MovieChat Forums > Bakushû (1972) Discussion > Unwatchable/untouchab le

Unwatchable/untouchab le

posted 15 years ago by alexbunardzic
10 replies | jump to latest

I became Ozu's fan after watching "Tokyo Story". To this day, I still think that it's one of the top 10 best movies ever made.

Being so overwhelmed with that movie, I was enticed to dig deeper into Japanese cinematography. I made sure to go and watch all the legendary Japanese movies, and then started exploring some more, going into studying less know Japanese directors.

After immersing myself in the world of Japanese cinematography, and after viewing many Japanese movies, one thing started emerging, like a red thread. The thing that seems to be irrevocably present in pretty much all of the Japanese movies I've seen is that, get this -- there seems to be no touching, no physical contact in any of the filmed encounters!

I'm not kidding you -- go back and rewatch. Now, we all know that the northern cultures, such as Scandinavian or Anglo-Saxon cultures, tend to be more on a cold side. Meaning, avoiding bodily contact, politely keeping others at the arm's length. But still, if you watch northern movies, people do shake hands regularly, they do slap each other on the shoulder in a friendly gesture, sometimes they even hug, and sometimes (god forbid!) they kiss on the cheek, almost as if they're French! Come on, we humans are mammals, after all!

But in Japanese cinematography, there is no way to witness, at any moment, any actor touching another human being. Never a handshake, do not even think about a hug, and such abominations as kissing on the cheek are simply unthinkable for Japanese directors. The only time we get to see human bodily contact is when they portray encounters with prostitutes/geishas.

Isn't that terrible? I mean, I've never been to Japan, so I don't want to pre-judge, but what kind of a life would it be if we all never touched each other, if all our interaction would get reduced to merely bowing silently to each other, at a respectable distance?

Is this phenomenon somehow an odd coincidence that only applies to Japanese cinematography at large, or is it also ingrained in Japanese culture? I must say that this phenomenon is now making most Japanese movies unwatchable for me, because I am acutely aware of that extremely inhumane aspect of the human interaction that is portrayed in Japanese movies.

[–] lachrymologist 15 years ago

Interesting thread, and I'm surprised nobody has commented on this yet. Being an anthropology (very into evolutionary psychology) major, yet having very little overall knowledge about Japanese culture, I think it is really important to avoid as much generalization as possible. That being said, it is widely known that even in, say, the United States, east coasters are colder and have a larger comfort bubble than west coasters. Or so the thinking goes. But it is still interesting to do these comparisons. Many Latin American, French, and Italian films (among others) are considered erotic, and there is scant mention of this in Japanese film. Wong Kar-Wai seems to evoke this element in Chinese film - some of which take place in the states, but at least as portrayed here in the states, this seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

I'd like to hear from people who know more about these cultures (China, Japan, anywhere in Asia) and their respective cinemas.

I'd recommend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haptic_communication as a jumping off point, with special emphasis on the "Culture and touch" section --

Japan is ranked as a non-touching culture, along with the United States, United Kingdom, and Australia, whereas China is a "middle ground" country.

Very interesting, as many US films involve touch, kissing, love-making, but rarely is their much outside of romantic involvement. Many questions could arise from this, such as why do we never see guys hugging one another?

[–] excel99 15 years ago

Contemporary Japanese film and even TV drama have plenty of touching, hugging, even kissing and more.

Perhaps you're basing your opinion on mostly older films, which predictably would have been more puritanical.

But it is true that in PUBLIC, the Japanese do frown upon outward signs of physical affection. That doesn't mean that mothers don't hug their children before sending them off to school, that fathers don't pat their sons on the back for some job well done, or that couples don't enjoy cuddling and kissing (in private, of course).

I must say that this phenomenon is now making most Japanese movies unwatchable for me, because I am acutely aware of that extremely inhumane aspect of the human interaction that is portrayed in Japanese movies.

I don't see why you view this as 'inhuman.' As an American, born and raised in the US, who has lived for a long time in Japan, I have to say Japan is far more humane when it comes to the way people treat each other. Japanese culture is all about getting along, and the lengths that people go to here just to keep from causing trouble to others is so refreshing, compared to the US where it's all 'ME! ME! ME!'

Regarding Ozu's films, don't mistake lack of physical contact as lack of sympathy or affection between characters. These feelings are surely there, they are just expressed differently than in the US. Take Banshun, for example. I can't think of a film where a daughter is more tender and affectionate toward the father she very clearly loves, even though she may not physically touch him very much. Setsuko Hara's performance as the daughter Noriko is one of the most touching portrayals of a daughter's love for her father ever filmed.

In Tokyo Story, you have a point, though. One of the themes of this movie is the coldness between parents and their adult children. It IS depressing, in this particular film. But that's the point of the film, isn't it?

[–] dwood-4 14 years ago

i can't speak for japan, but i know in a lot of east asian cultures hugging or showing outward affection is not common place. obviously hugging or holding children happens, but between adults, it is almost un heard of.

[–] vickerman625 14 years ago

I think calling it unwatchable is a bit of an exaggeration. As a Brit in Japan (3 years), it is a noticeable part of Japanese culture. Things are changing slowly (you even see younger couples holding hands in public sometimes - an act that would never be contemplated among the older generation). But Japan is a very conservative society in many ways, including emotion.

As other posters have said, this doesn't mean the characters don't care deeply for each other, but it's expressed in other ways, verbally and through facial expressions. The director is a product of and is perhaps unconsciously reflecting a particular society at that time. Which makes it even more interesting for me to observe modern Japanese customs against.

[–] mojojobob 15 years ago

I'm pretty sure Aya kisses Noriko's father on the forehead at the end of Late Spring.

http://whatsnewinspace.blogspot.com

[–] Beeske 14 years ago

As Japanese, I enjoyed posters' comments here. I want to thank alexbunardzic and everybody. Let me post my vague impression.

Is this phenomenon somehow an odd coincidence that only applies to Japanese cinematography at large, or is it also ingrained in Japanese culture?

Here's an example. When we see couples kissing in the street, some or most Japanese feel that they are 'showing off' their kissings. I don't believe the couples can ignore people's eyes. It's not that we feel kissings in the streets are evil(!) or inappropriate. Only because it's a bit unusual, we look for their intention of doing that.

However, if we have Noriko in modern Japan, it's no surprise to see her kissing in the streets, isn't it? As you watchers of this film all know, Japanese are torn between 'we are free individuals with our own motivation' and 'we are all part of the loving circle that needs to be maintained'. Or is it the same old conflict? Still, as one Brit poster said (gladly finding similarity between his/her own country!), Japanese society is marked as conservative, i.e. the latter is stronger in many cases.

So, in my humble opinion, Noriko is trying deadly hard to make Japanese films watchable for alexbunardzic. Noriko's first choice was the former attitude. That's why her mother or her friend thought she would marry and live in western style. In Japanese eyes, touching hugging thingy is western, and sometimes regarded as too much expression. 'How come they need that? Can't they feel or show their sense of caring without that? How dumb and senseless!' is what we feel boldly. In a closed loving circle, which I personally hate anyway, one doesn't need to do that sort of expression to say that you care, unless you want to show off.

There is a famous Zen saying 'We all know the sound of clapping by both hands. But what about by the single hand?'. How can anybody enjoy Ozu's films without trying to listen to the sound of single hand clapping? You know what I mean. Well, Japanese do, at least.

[–] kirby-37 14 years ago

I find the initial post so ignorant as to be laughable. Not to be mean, but one should not assume things without some effort to find out about cultural norms. There are other ways of showing emotion than grappling. And although it is true that especially films of Ozo are restrained and the viewer has to actually pay attention to facial expressions and other gestures to discern shades of emotion and affection, it is not true of all Japanese films that there is no touching. Look at the films of Teshigahara, for example, "Women of the Dunes" or the ghost story, "Onibaba," made in 1964 and set in medieval Japan. Plenty of contact revealed there to the most myoptic of viewers. Ironically, though, there is more actual affection in the understated films of Ozo than in these more visibly tactile films.

[–] pfr_77 9 years ago

I find this thread a bit funny because there was a moment in Early Summer that I specifically noticed where the mother of the man Noriko agrees to marry touches Noriko on the shoulder as she's leaving the office

[–] ghtx 9 years ago

You should watch "In the Realm of the Senses". Plenty of touching in that movie (and how).

[–] j-m-d-b 8 years ago

Noriko's boss touches Aya on the arm as they are talking about Noriko's departure. Noriko and Aya hold hands. Noriko's mother straightens her father's robe for the photo. Kenkichi's mother touches Noriko after she agrees to marry her son. I think there were a few more moments. So there is some physical contact here and there. I do agree however that the culture, maybe more so back then, seems restrained in that sense.