MovieChat Forums > I Love Lucy (1951) Discussion > The Curious Animosity of Fred and Ethel ...

The Curious Animosity of Fred and Ethel Mertz

posted 4 years ago by TMC-4 (19389)
13 replies | jump to latest

http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2019/DEC.html

16. ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER 12/02 **8**
https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2019/12/blind-item-8-reader-blind-old-hollywood.html
Reader Blind - Old Hollywood: This deceased actor (William Frawley) was in his younger years a song and dance man working on Broadway and also did character roles in many films. However, he is most famous for a role on a groundbreaking popular TV show ("I Love Lucy") later in his life wherein he was paired with a woman (Vivian Vance) who he shared mutual dislike with in real life. Even later he was a regular for a few years on a family themed show ("My Three Sons"). His heavy drinking and difficult personality might have been the reason he was only married once (Edna Louise Broedt) for not that long and never had children. However, the bigger reason was probably the fact he had a number of kinky sex interests. Chief among them, which he satisfied with prostitutes, was to dress up like a giant baby with a diaper, a bonnet, and a bib and have a woman take care of and clean him. (The Curious Animosity of Fred and Ethel Mertz) https://www.neatorama.com/2017/11/08/The-Curious-Animosity-of-Fred-and-Ethel-Mertz/

[–] kenburke (2279) 4 years ago

Who gives a Ferengi fart?

[–] [email protected] (5490) 4 years ago

Gee, that is really weird! But it sounds like a bizarre rumor. Just because someone never marries or remarries, they "must be" weird or "kinky".

I have a book entitled "The Other Side of Fred and Ethel". William Frawley is not portrayed as any kind of saint for sure. He was a heavy drinker. One of his co-stars on My Three Sons, the late Meredith MacRae, only had nice things to say about him though. She said he was a sweet guy.
The one woman he really couldn't stand though was Vivian Vance. The Lucy Show was filmed on a nearby set and during breaks the young boys who played the sons said that he would have them go over to the Lucy set with him. He'd toss film cans (like a frisbee) at the walls in hopes of annoying Vance.

William Frawley's offscreen life seemed to revolve around his drinking buddies and watching baseball.

[–] [email protected] (1732) 4 years ago

I believe most people got along with Vance and Frawley, but they just brought out the worst in each other.

From everything I've read, it started out bad, albeit childishly. Vance was expecting a handsome man as HER
husband (just like Lucy had), and was appalled when she saw Frawley, reportedly saying within his earshot, "That
old goat's old enough to be my father!" Incensed, Frawley retorted to Arnaz, "Where'd you dig up THAT bitch?"

Doris Singleton said that whenever she did the show, "they didn't speak." I heard it got worse as the series progressed,
which is odd. But Vance had mental health problems, was in a bad marriage, and Frawley was a drunk. He was
REALLY furious when Vance refused to do the spinoff series, "The Mertz's." And thank God for that. It wouldn't
have worked without Lucy and Ricky.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 4 years ago

From everything I've read, it started out bad, albeit childishly. Vance was expecting a handsome man as HER husband (just like Lucy had), and was appalled when she saw Frawley, reportedly saying within his earshot, "That old goat's old enough to be my father!" Incensed, Frawley retorted to Arnaz, "Where'd you dig up THAT bitch?"

Vance's attitude always angered me. She knew what she was signing up for, why bitch about it later? Contrary to her opinion of herself, in my opinion, she was no beauty. OK looking, but no beauty.

Desi made a star out of her by picking her out of obscurity. As you implied, maybe her mental issues came into play. 🙄

[–] [email protected] (1732) 4 years ago

I, too, thought it funny that Vance thought she was so beautiful. She had a GREAT smile, and certainly, Ethel
could've done better than Fred! (talk about settling).

Vance always had mixed feelings about her Lucy "second-banana" career. She initially turned down ILL and had
to be talked into "The Lucy Show" (understandable) by Ball.

The Lucy Show: I find it odd that Vance stipulated in her contract that her character "viv", would not be as
frumpy as "Ethel." Yet Viv ACCEPTED "BAGLEY (!)" as "Viv's" last name??? Viv got a more attractive hairdo
and wardrobe, but "Bagley???????"

[–] Gubbio (3893) 4 years ago

The Lucy Show: I find it odd that Vance stipulated in her contract that her character "viv", would not be as frumpy as "Ethel."

I don't understand an actress being vain about how she looks in a role. We, the public, know it's a "role," and that it isn't them. It must have something to do with insecurity.

Bette Davis had the right idea: She didn't care how she looked on screen -- as long as it fit the character and the role.

You probably know she reputedly designed her own makeup for "Baby Jane." It's said that she figured the character wouldn't wash her face -- just apply a new layer of makeup every day.

This must have driven Crawford (who was all about "glamour") nuts -- that Bette considered herself a character actress and didn't worry about always looking like a "Star."

Footnote: I could never see Crawford's beauty, except in some early MGM publicly shots, where her face looked like a plaster statue (beautiful cheekbones). The older she got, the more she looked like a MAN ! 😲 🤢

[–] [email protected] (1732) 4 years ago

Well, Mike, it's all relative. Davis KNEW she wasn't a great beauty (she was told in the early '30's that she
had as much sex appeal as Slim Summerville). She did know she was a great actor, and early on went for
character acting, while most young actors her age went for glamour.

Crawford was NEVER a great beauty, but she was molded by MGM (during its greatest period - the Irving
Thalberg years), which was all about "beauty." And let's be honest: Neither Jean Harlow or Norma
Shearer were beautiful either (and Harlow had such a shrill speaking voice!). But MGM DICTATED to
the public that they were beauties.

Davis, Crawford, Stanwyck: Davis had a maddening genius. She was often monstrously over the top,
but pure magic in the right role. Crawford was DERTERMINED to be perceived as a great beauty AND
a great actor (she was neither). "Stanny's" my personal fave. She was a great actor and, unlike
Davis, was a superb comedienne. And she had ZERO pretense of glamour. Her beauty lay in her earthy
presence and steely confidence. One sensed that if you found her attractive great. If you didn't, she
never gave a shit. Pure confidence and talent.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 4 years ago

Great comments. I appreciate your opinion.

[–] [email protected] (5490) 4 years ago

Interesting thoughts on all the actresses. Joan Crawford always carried herself with supreme confidence. And she was more in the line of what is called a handsome woman. She didn't have delicate features.

Bette Davis surely didn't care about looking pretty or glamorous if the role called for her to look dumpy or frumpy. But I did think she was cute in her early roles. In Now, Voyager (one of my favorites), she gets a makeover from frumpy to ultra glamorous. She certainly wasn't beautiful, but she carried herself with such confidence. She could sell an audience on the premise that Aunt Charlotte was now an attractive, desirable woman.

I was reading about The Big Valley and the author of the piece said that Barbara Stanwyck got better looking with age. I have to agree. Her features seemed to soften with age and her gray/white hair was much more becoming on her than when she was a brunette in her younger days.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 4 years ago

PJ, agree completely with your comments on Davis. 😊

[–] [email protected] (5490) 4 years ago

Always one of my favorite actresses. And she had those "Bette Davis Eyes"!!

Really, was there another actress who even remotely looked like her? She was unique. I could see all her leading men falling for her in her movie roles. Too many women (in real life) trade on their looks and have the personalities of a bucket of wallpaper paste. Davis definitely made you notice her! She had an air of intrigue about her.

[–] [email protected] (1732) 4 years ago

I thought Stanwyck was lovely in "The Big Valley", but I far prefer her mid-to-late '40's
period. She's very attractive in "Christmas in Connecticut", "The Two Mrs. Carrolls" and "Cry
Wolf", despite their being very mediocre films.

Stanwyck's work holds up the best, in my opinion.

[–] TMC-4 (19389) 4 years ago

William Frawley, 'I Love Lucy's Fred Mertz: A Bit Of A Jerk

https://groovyhistory.com/i-love-lucy-fred-mertz