I've only seen this brilliant movie once but I found Joe and Betty's chemistry to be virtually non-existent. There was zero development of their relationship. For me it was the only part of the film that was lacking. It could have been explored and developed so much more to make Joe's predicament that much more difficult...and believable.
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You are correct on that point. It seemed that they were friends and then all of a sudden they were embracing in a kiss.
shareMust respectfully disagree--it was quite obvious that Betty found Joe very attractive and interesting.
I will watch it again to be sure. I was noting the absence of chemistry, however; there seemed very little passion. Betty finding Joe attractive and interesting just doesn't quite cut it for me.
"...Don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever."
I, for one. vote for the Betty/Joe relationship seemed as forced as Joe and Norma. I liked Betty and I liked Joe, but the Betty/Joe thing just didn't come across like the way they were talking about it. Sorry. But still a great movie.
shareI think that William Holden and Nancy Olson made a handsome and credible screen couple, and that their performances were quite good. Where things went wrong is in the way Betty's character was presented (IMO, obviously). She was a local gal,a Hollywood native, her family had worked in the movie business for decades, which made her more of a movie insider than Joe, and somewhat his superior in certain matters pertaining to the movie business. I think the romance would have worked better if Betty had herself come to Hollywood, like Joe, from the midwest, Indiana or Illinois to his Ohio, had artistic aspirations, a decent education, tried modeling, acting, gave screenwriting a shot, had a good but not great job with the studio, which would have made her more of s soulmate for Joe, with similar aspirations, which would have made Joe a better guy for her than Artie (some rewriting would be necessary here, needless to say). This would have raised the possibility of a serious, real life alternate scenario, and it would also have lent a more urgent air to the final half hour of the movie. Downside: it would have taken attention away from vampire Norma Desmond, lessened the impact of her tragedy, made Joe's fate even worse than her's. But it would have made the romance more credible.
shareThis whole aspect of the movie is badly done. Betty is engaged to Artie, but immediately flirts shamelessly with Joe at the party while Artie is right outside the room... I found Betty to be a nasty character, far worse than Norma. The movie tries to portray the character as being innocent, but her actions completely conflict with this... she goes after her fiancé's best friend so quickly and suddenly... I have no sympathy for this character.
shareYou're a hard judge. Isn't it possible to be interested in somebody, seek their company regarding a common interest, and spend time with them without betraying an engagement? It would be a lonely world, not to mention a boring one, if that was not so.
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Isn't it possible to be interested in somebody, seek their company regarding a common interest, and spend time with them without betraying an engagement?
Obviously we view the scenes in question differently.
You say in your point 1) -- "Betty is clearly romantically interested in Joe already ...". That does not seem clear to me.
And -- "... they were clearly flirting with each other..." Yes, but who doesn't do that, after one or two liberating drafts of punch at a New Year's Eve party? Not many, I think. It's called innocent flirtation -- a little risque' fun - happens all the time - which is seldom expected to lead to anyone's "betrayal" (even to include spouses). "Innocent" in this case especially 'cause Arty was close by, and both Joe and Betty were, at the very least, extremely fond of the guy.
You say in your point 2) -- "Betty doesn't realize she's falling for Joe till it's too late." I agree here, but what can she do about it? She makes the choice to follow her heart. It is, apparently, the right choice for her, and who else, in the end, can make that choice with more authority? It's a dynamic that has moved countless other dramas -- for millenia.
You say -- "Betty still seems to have no qualms about betraying Artie". Well, to me, it seems she had serious qualms about betraying Artie. She could hardly speak when she revealed to Joe her true feelings. Anyway, I got the opposite impression from the one you got.
"They could have avoided this whole issue by ..."
But they didn't want to avoid it. They chose to employ it. It is an important element in the development of Joe's character, and, thus, to the run-up to the film's climax.
It's all subjective in the final analysis. We're each entitled to our feelings about how the film, and each of its components, strikes us. . .
Thanks for a thought-provoking post.
No problem. Thanks.
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