I cant stand the singing in these films - Rio Grande (1950) Discussion

[–] bari2525 16 years ago

The fact is, music, and singing in particular was a big part of cavalry life.

The mundane "routine" of the fort was VERY boring, and at times, back-breaking.

Most peole of earlier eras sang around the house, church, school, etc...so it was just a continuation of this.

As far as trying to impress someone who hasn't seen it, you can tell them that this topic was VERY well studied and researched by John Ford, and in nearly all of his "period" films, songs of the day were prominantly displayed. When a lot of people talk about John Ford movies, they always talk about the music.

I'm curious, Do you dislike singing in general, or just in westerns?

I promise I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I would really like to know.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

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[–] Clive-Candy 16 years ago

Singing in Westerns.They allways feel the need to burst out in to song shame they didnt do it in For a few dollars More could have been quite funny.Rio Grande is a great John Ford movie i just feel that when you watching hesinging parts it feels so outdated.I know it was made over 50 years ago just my oppinion.

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[–] bari2525 16 years ago

I think you hit the nail on the head!

If Leone or Eastwood had done that in their westerns, it WOULD have been funny. It was not part of their style.

I appreciate the fact that you don't care for it, and I also appreciate that you like the film anyway.

What most directors go for in their films (westerns in particular) is something to set them apart from all the rest. As you know, by watching different directors working in the western genre, most of them tried to carve out a niche, and Ford's niches (he had more than one!) wre pretty indicitive of the man himself.

If you'll notice in nearly all of his movies (westerns in partiular), he liked using the music of the area related to the film. Irish/Welsh folk songs in "How Green Was My Valley," American folk songs in "Young Mr. Lincoln," and so on and so forth.

I don't feel that it's outdated, as the cavalry trilogy was completed nearly 60 years ago, and it's not really appropriate to judge a film from so many years ago against the standards of today.

Again, I might disagree slightly, but I don't have a problem with the fact that your opinion is what it is.

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne

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[–] bcoaggiemom09 15 years ago

I know this is the exception, but there is one western in which Clint Eastwood sings: Paint Your Wagon. A very funny movie, and if you haven't seen it you are missing a treat.

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[–] kbarada 15 years ago

Well when you hire the Sons of the Pioneers western singing group, then there will be singing. This group was very popular in the day and I'm sure lots of folks going to see this movie in the early 1950's enjoyed the music. Besides the singing which I really liked, there was abundant comedy especially with Victor McLaglen as Sgt. Maj. Quincannon

All this really made this movie a borderline musical comedy western!

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[–] CarolVickiFan84 15 years ago

I didn't mind the singing at all, I didn't think it was so bad.

Maureen O'Hara, Ireland Best Actress. Got Maureen O'Hara and Julie Andrews autograph 2008!

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[–] bradford-1 15 years ago

Lest we forget, before phonographs, radios, boomboxes, ipods and MP3's, people made their own music. I daresay every Cavalry outpost of any size had a brass band, small orchestra, plus assorted singing ensembles. What do you think people on wagon trains or cattle drives did for entertainment? They sang and danced. Someone would be proficient on banjo, guitar, harmonica, violin, maybe zither.

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[–] klint_eastwood 15 years ago

are you kidding, the music is the best part!

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[–] Bush_Pilot 14 years ago

I was born in 43 and I remember people coming over every weekend to gather around the piano and sing and laugh till their sides were aching..... real fun... a lot different and better than sitting in front of a tv by yourself.

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[–] Bush_Pilot 14 years ago

Incidently, Ken Curtis, who sang the lead in the movie was a member of the Sons of the Pioneers and also sang in big bands. I understand he took Frank Sinatra's place when Sinatra left Dorsey to strike out on his own. It's hard to imagine 'Festus' being that good a singer but Curtis was an amazing actor too.

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[–] msvickye 14 years ago

And he was very handsome back then, too. When I tell people that was him, they have a hard time believing me, as they can't believe Festus and this handsome younger man are one and the same. I love his rendition of "Kathleen"--he had a beautiful voice.

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[–] pgharett-676-553123 9 years ago

Remember when he was singing Kathleen and John Wayne's character said, "This music wasn't of my choosing." Maureen replied, "I wish it was."

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[–] Princerd 14 years ago

I have heard the southern Civil War soldiers were especially fond of singing during the war. It helped to lift their spirits. I think it is mentioned in the special features of this movie.

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[–] TDemian 14 years ago

to me, the singing adds alot of emotion to the film, and i particularly loved the dale evans song the 3 musketeers sang in the tent- johnson, carey, and jarman juniors. the kathleen song was so moving- and it breaks me up he admits he didnt ask them to sing it for her....very good choice for character development. ohara and wayne are such fine actors, i admit i hadnt really realized it until i started watching ford films again- studying them- this one, stagecoach, how green was my valley, the searchers. great performances by these 2 beautiful actors. so perfect in their roles in each...

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[–] eadoe 14 years ago

I loved the singing in this movie – especially the song, “The Bold Fenian Men” – about the Fenians, a group of Irish freedom fighters in the 19th century. Although the song wasn’t written until 1916, so couldn’t possibly have been sung at a 19th century U.S. Calvary outpost, it still fits the mood of the movie so perfectly, especially the last stanza:

“I passed on my way, God be praised that I met her,
Be my life long or short, I will never forget her.
We’ll maybe have great men, but we’ll never have better.
Glory O, Glory O, to the bold Fenian men.”

I’ve used that line in a eulogy at the funeral of a dear friend:
“We’ll maybe have great men, but we’ll never have better.”

"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power."
- Julius Caesar, act 2 sc 1

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[–] stephen_chow79 14 years ago

I love the music.. turn the speakers up high, its pretty inspiring for me.

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[–] shalmayan-1 14 years ago

According to Maureen O'Hara, (she gives a description of the movie on the DVD as it plays), she actually taught that song to the Sons of the Pioneers.

I love all the songs in this movie, so poignant and so appropriate. I agree with all the posters who stated everyone sang. In times past, people entertained themselves by singing, reading aloud, and just plain conversing. I really lament the loss of people actually talking and sharing with one another...

Thankfully, we have movies like this to remind us of how people lived.
I'd certainly trade the singing and dancing and storytelling any day for seeing the tops of people's heads texting...

Be well...

Shal...

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[–] cowgoesmoo 13 years ago

Although singing would historically have been a major source of entertainment, "singing cowboys" were a big part of Westerns in the 30s and 40s. In addition to Ken Curtis, previously mentioned, guys like Rex Allen and Roy Rogers made their fame that way. Even John Wayne (with a dubbed singing voice) was cast as a singing cowboy early in his career.

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[–] bari2525 12 years ago

In fact, he was the FIRST singing cowboy.

Gene Autry stated many times that he was so grateful JW paved the way for his (Autry's) being discovered...to ultimately take JW's place!

I don't act...I react. John Wayne

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[–] ibbi 12 years ago

It's what happens visually in those scenes that is the real problem. The songs themselves I really don't mind, listening to them independent of the film I might even say I like them, but they absolutely kill the momentum of the movie presented the way that they are, and that's just no good.

old pirates, yes, they rob i

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[–] bari2525 12 years ago

I would say that the issue of "killing the momentum" is:

#1. A matter of opinion, and

#2. Dependant of the film in which the singing occurs.

I can't see how anyone would find the momentum lagging when the singing of "Kathleen" is central to the development of his and Maureen O'Hara's characters.

Also, the issue of the singing as they're marching is completely natural, and doesn't affect the momentum at all.

I don't act...I react. John Wayne

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[–] mvksmall 11 years ago

John Ford as a director used ceremony and tradition quite a bit in his films (yes, I'm of the dreaded " auteur" school). Traditional singing is a continuance of the Medieval Troubadour and ceremonial church choirs, so Ford was quite fond of integrating singing in his films. Rio Grande includes so much great music out MIGHT be considered a "natural" musical, sans dancing, which might be your problem with it. The songs are indeed often cinematically
slowed down for, to accentuate their pivotal role
in telling the story, often dwelling on the faces of those listening, as a musical narration substituting for what could prove to be difficult in "lines".
As others have commented, this film was made 62 years ago, when there was a VERY different style of filmmaking. Please try to look at it in this context-you'll see the true genius of John Ford if you can.
(Shakespeare's no Steven King, is he?)

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[–] wrlord2001 10 years ago

Then you need to pay closer attention. The way Wayne and o'Hara look at each other during the song tells volumes.

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[–] eddie-fendel 8 years ago

Yes it's quite beautiful.

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[–] Xcalat3 12 years ago

I agree, singing ruins a lot of these movies.

When there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...

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[–] mam13143 10 years ago

After three songs in a row it began to grind on me too. They sang so much throughout the film it began to feel more like a musical. I got the feeling after a while that the songs were filler to make the film longer. Based on a short story wasn't it?
I guess cowboys and soldiers sang back then, but it became a bit intrusive in this movie. By the way, we didn't sing at all when I was in the army lol.

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[–] Miinerva 10 years ago

paint your wagon

Yes Eastwood sang but it wasn't a "Western" it was a musical based on the Broadway Show.
As far as the singing goes I found it less obtrusive than the lame attempts at comedy.

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[–] lizcarlo87 9 years ago

I really enjoyed the singing in this movie.

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