MovieChat Forums > Rashômon (1951) Discussion > The fight scene in the woodcuter's versi...

The fight scene in the woodcuter's version


That scene is the single most realistic swordfighting scene in all of cinema.

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I agree. It's the most realistic and intense scene of swordfighting I have ever seen.

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Except when the samurai gets dragged all the way to the bandit's sword. That was very silly. He could have let go and grabbed his own sword before the bandit even made it to his own.

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I don't know I feel that it was purposefully kind of lame. Both the bandit and the husband had just had their masculinity and pride bashed by the wife and the fight itself showed that kind of scared, pathetic nature that was outed in them from that particular telling of the story. That being said it was still an intense life-or-death struggle.

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That was the point of the scene, and also why people are praising it. A real life or death samurai sword fight would not be a crazy 20 blow exchange with masterful execution like the initial exaggerated one. A fight would either be decided in a few blows, or probably look rather lame like this as both combatants are scared of dying a horrible death.

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I don't know if it would look so lame if they were both real fighters. It's almost like saying that this fight is what truly happened and that the initial fight isn't. We don't know what happened (maybe none of what anyone said happened.)

These two fighters were, at the time, both emasculated and so they put forth an emasculated fight. This is a cohesion that I always felt that Kurosawa was aiming for. I don't know if we can say that most people would act so skittish in a sword fight. It's all depicted within context of the story not so much within the context of what realistic sword fighting is. It's more poetic than realistic. - just my opinion.

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[deleted]

First, I agree that this is how 99% of fights to the death would probably look. The fear Mifune conveys is palpable, but I don't think that was the only point of shooting the battle this way. valedictatorian1 you're correct in pointing out that they were both supposed to be experienced swordsmen.

As someone else said in another post, each storyteller tried to cover their own insecurities in the version they told. The last man was sort of cowardly. He hid in the bushes watching the crimes unfold and stole the dagger. He couldn't admit he lacked the courage to be honest, so what does he do to make himself look better? He paints others in a cowardly light. They were said to be bumbling and afraid. The truth is somewhere in between.

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He couldn't admit he lacked the courage to be honest, so what does he do to make himself look better? He paints others in a cowardly light.

I would approach this from a different direction.

The woodcutter doesn't have the first clue what he is looking at and seeing. He knows absolutely nothing about kendo or anything else similar or related. So it's not even *possible* for him to describe any such contest in terms of rational and intentional movements. He has no concept of (what a modern Western fencer would refer to as) "maintaining proper fencing distance". Therefore he can't possibly see that a step backwards might be a well reasoned tactical choice; instead he interprets it through the lens of his own experience and thought process and takes it to be what it would be if he did it: panic stricken flight. In the woodcutter's eyes, every retreat becomes uncontrolled fleeing to the furthest corner of the clearing; and every advance becomes an out-of-control bull-rush charge.

While the woodcutter's description of the fight is a realistic depiction of what a sword fight between the woodcutter and another, similarly clueless person would look like, I don't think there's any chance that it is anything like what *this* fight looked like.

We have to remember what a samurai was. They were hereditary, professional soldiers. That means that their full time job, from childhood on, was practicing their skills with a sword and a bow (and a few other related things). Frankly, I suspect that if the samurai were trying to look as much like a toddler as he could, he would have difficulty making his footwork as bad as it is depicted in the woodcutter's version of that fight. By that point in his life, he would have spent too many thousands of hours practicing his footwork into a completely automatic habit. Thinking that fear could have destroyed those habits so completely is the same as thinking that a sufficiently scared professional baseball player would revert to throwing exactly like a toddler. That's not how "muscle memory" works.

Undoubtedly, the bandit's memory of the fight figures to be a bit idealized, and there are almost certainly times where he remembers what he meant to do instead of what he actually did. However, my bet is that his version is closer to what actually happened than the woodcutter's version is.

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I would also mention that, even in the bandit's idealized version, there are times when the bandit (having less formal training than the samurai) over-commits to an attack and ends up putting himself off balance for a moment. The samurai doesn't attempt a counter-strike when the bandit has made himself vulnerable. I couldn't help wondering whether the samurai's "suicide" might have included engaging in a katana duel without ever seriously attempting to strike his opponent; sooner or later, the bandit would land one of his strikes even the samurai were the far better swordsman.

Then again, since the samurai's ghost felt the dagger being removed from his corpse after he could no longer see: I also find myself wondering whether the bandit had wounded the samurai, and had left him for dead, and *then* the samurai finished himself. In that case, nobody would have actively lied about anything other than the already acknowledged bit about the woodcutter and the dagger; the samurai would have just omitted the fight from his version while telling the truth (as he saw and remembered it) about what happened before and after it.

Of course, all of this is beside the point relative to the primary thrust of the movie.

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wow entitled to your opinion of course but im at awe that you think that and people are commenting and agreeing with you...........90% of the fight choreo was falling down....and 1 of them was supposed to be a samurai?.........realistic?....if you guys watch it again and not see how falling down 90% of the time and stumbling was a lazy alternative to good choreo i just dont know im at a lost.........nothing realistic about it imo.....i could see some stumbling instead of maintaining perfect balance while fighting for your life....that could appear natural...but that was on a wholeeeeeeeeeeeee nother level lol...to each his own

Oh great, now it's my dick that's killing me

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I agree completely.

Many people are condition in their expectations by dramatic media, and have become accustomed to see utterly fearless warriors executing perfect technique with every move, with no fear of death what-so-ever.

A similar scene (and very possibly influenced by this one) is the fight between Pvt. Mellish and Steamboat Willie in Saving Private Ryan.

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