MovieChat Forums > Morning Departure (1950) Discussion > Why couldn't they...? (SPOILERS)

Why couldn't they...? (SPOILERS)


SPOILER ALERT

The three remaining men are left to die because the coming storm means that the rescue ship won't be able to withstand the heavy seas and so will have to leave before it can finish lifting the sub completely out of the water. This means having to release the sub from its lifting apparatus and letting it sink back to the bottom, dooming the men.

Now, most of the crew had gotten out by using their breathing apparatus, leaving only a few men for whom there was no apparatus available. However, the crew had had to use this equipment when the sub was 100 or so feet down. At the time the rescue vessel is forced to release the sub, it was just 30 feet below the surface. Why couldn't the rescuers have had the remaining three simply flood the remainder of the sub in a controlled manner, then hold their breath while they swam to the surface? Thirty feet is a short distance, a depth the men could readily swim through. The underwater crew could be sent down to help them on their way (providing oxygen to them, for instance), and as all this would take only a few minutes there was still plenty of time to do it before the storm struck. Granted flooding the sub could be tricky, but the men surely could have survived if it was done right. They certainly had nothing to lose.

This was always a major sticking point for me in this generally excellent film. If the sub were still a hundred or more feet below the surface, such an escape wouldn't have been possible, but just thirty feet? As I said, with death a certainty the other way, what had the men to lose by trying?

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Maybe they did just that.

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SPOILERS (again)

Have you even seen the film? No, they didn't do just that. The sub sank back to the bottom, and the last scene showed the doomed men sitting in the wardroom listening to the Captain read from the Bible in their last hours before their air would run out.

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[deleted]

Yes, you're right that flooding the sub would of course have increased the load -- the question is whether it would have done so to such an extent that the sub could no longer be held and would sink anyway. Remember that the sub was already mostly flooded anyway, so my guess is that flooding the small remaining portion would not have made much weight difference...certainly not enough to cause the sub to break from its raising platform and sink. Actually, the fact that the sub was already mostly flooded might have made a controlled flooding of the rest of it easier and less dangerous than had it been intact.

But again (and apologies for sounding like a broken record), the men were doomed by just releasing the sub, so what had they to lose by trying?

What gets me is that no possible suggestions for getting the men out were even discussed. Everyone was resigned to the notion that, if the sub wasn't raised in time, they'd have to release it and let them go to their deaths. No plan of action to avoid this was raised (if you'll pardon the expression). Wouldn't even a long-shot idea have been better than nothing? This self-induced resignation to the so-called inevitable -- which did not appear to me to be inevitable at all -- is baffling, annoying and depressing.

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The real question is why are they mucking about spending DAYS to raise the entire sub when all they have to do is send a diving bell down to the sub, lock it on to the remaining escape hatch and get the remaining four out that way.
What they need is one of these things in other words.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCann_Rescue_Chamber

The rescue method`s being used in this are more 1930`s than 1950`s, so perhaps although made in 1950 the actual setting for the story is intended to be sometime in the late `30`s just before WWII and based on what happened to the real early `T` class boat HMS Thetis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnGJH0etmUo

A further irony concerning the Thetis incident was that the same year that it happened the American sub USS Squalus got in to similar trouble.
Fortunately for some of the crew however, in this case one of the first McCann Chambers was availble to mount a rescue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQB366P2vq0

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

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The USS Squalus was the only time a diving bell was used to rescue men trapped in a sunken sub. Although many were still lost, the majority survived. (I think it was 22 out of 39, if memory serves, but I may well be wrong.) That was off the coast of New Hampshire in 1939. (Footage of that rescue effort was incorporated into the 1953 movie The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms.)

Raising the entire sub does sound cumbersome. Here too, you'd think they would at least have discussed alternative rescue arrangements. I also never understood why raising the thing took so long. I'm sure there was a technical reason but you'd think it could have been done faster.

None of which addresses my original question, why they didn't at least try a last-ditch effort to get the men out at 30 feet. I'm sure audiences in 1950 wondered the same thing too. Just thirty feet -- about five times a man's height. (Maybe 5 1/2 times John Mills's!) And to repeat the same old tiresome point yet again...what had they to lose? The worst thing that could have happened is that the men would have died anyway. I'd want to take even the remotest chance of living as against absolutely certain death. The ending was poignant but unrealistically needless.

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[deleted]

None of which addresses my original question, why they didn't at least try a last-ditch effort to get the men out at 30 feet. I'm sure audiences in 1950 wondered the same thing too. Just thirty feet -- about five times a man's height. (Maybe 5 1/2 times John Mills's!) And to repeat the same old tiresome point yet again...what had they to lose? The worst thing that could have happened is that the men would have died anyway. I'd want to take even the remotest chance of living as against absolutely certain death. The ending was poignant but unrealistically needless

I just watched this again and I think I may have an explanation.
Thirty feet may not seem like much but its still deep enough for the spectre of Nitrogen Narcosis or "The Bends" to be a factor in their calculations if they tried to get them to the surface too fast.

In order to get them out they have to get them out of the sub, which the way things are set up is going to completely flood as soon as the hatch opens.
Then they have to somehow get them out of the sub and up that thirty feet before they drown.
The techniques of the time stress that the ascent has to be made SLOWLY in order to prevent "The Bends", trouble is without breathing gear they`re going not going to be able hold their breath for the time neccessary and if they try it fast they are going to die painfully once they get to the surface.

Nowadays, with saturation diving techniques they would just bring them up fast then stick them in a mobile decompression chamber until they recover but that sort of technology didn`t exist in the late 1940`s/ early 1950`s.
So, in the thinking of the time, all they will achive by trying to get them out is to kill them painfully, leaving them on the bottom means that they will pass out painlessly through lack of oxygen and there is probably a slight chance that if the weather clears they might just be able to get a diver down to reattach that air line before its to late.

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

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You make some good points but I still say that meekly accepting as inevitable the death of the three men without even trying to come up with an alternative is unrealistic.

The bends is an obvious hazard though not a certain one. As I said, the rescuers could have sent divers down to the sub equipped with oxygen lines or other breathing gear to give the men when they emerged and help them on their way up. Also, if necessary they could have decompressed the way early divers to the wreck of the Andrea Doria did, stopping at a certain level beneath the surface for a certain amount of time in order to decompress naturally. In the case of the Doria, which lies at a depth of 245 feet, it took divers about nine hours to decompress about 20 or 30 feet below the surface. For men ascending from only 30 feet, any decompression time would be much briefer than that, and like the Doria divers, the men could be continuously provided with air from hoses from the surface, and given a platform on which to rest, while they decompressed. If decompression was indeed necessary, it wouldn't have taken a long time.

Certainly any such operation entails risks (cold, hypothermia, the storm, sharks) and the men might have died anyway, but...well, you know, my oft-repeated question. They might have been killed in the attempt to flood the sub. But just try something! And to your last point, in the film it was explicitly stated that once the sub was let go there was no way the air would last long enough for a future rescue, so the men were doomed to die once the sub was dropped back to the bottom.

Couldn't a diver somehow have gotten into the sub and provided the men with breathing gear to get to the surface? After all, the crew got out of the sub by such a means. If they had access to a diving chamber I should think an outside diver could enter it, have the water pumped out and come aboard to help the men escape.

Alternatively I've also wondered why the rescue vessels had to let the sub go in the first place. Okay, a storm was coming. Couldn't they have ridden it out? Was it a certainty they'd lose the sub? Here again, the same old question, which this time I will repeat: What had they to lose?

Doing nothing should not have been an option.

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There is so much misinformation stated in this thread--as well as in the movie--that I hardly know where to begin. First of all, 30 feet is not a problem for men without a breathing apparatus. Here is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article on the Momsen Lung, an improved version of the British breathing apparatus. It also discusses the breathing apparatus used in this film:

"The Royal Navy used a similar device, the Davis Submerged Escape Apparatus, but it was clumsy to use. The Royal Navy later adopted the practice of blow and go, in which the sailor would exhale continuously during ascent to avoid air expanding in the lungs, which could cause them to rupture. Postwar, submariner Walter F. Schlech, Jr., among others, examined submerged escape without breathing devices and discovered ascent was possible from as deep as 300 ft (91 m): "in one sense, the Momsen Lung concept may have killed far more submariners than it rescued."

The submariners had been in a submarine with fairly normal air pressure. They had not spent a lot of time at depth outside a vessel. So there would be no nitrogen narcosis to deal with. It would take only a short time to "blow and go" to reach the surface. They would have been fine, as long as they didn't panic.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A. Einstein

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First of all, 30 feet is not a problem for men without a breathing apparatus.

I was in the U.S. submarine service 1951-54. We used the tower at New London to practice such escapes from 25 and then 50 feet. The trick was to fill your lungs with the compressed air and then rise to the surface no faster than the bubbles, making sure you had exhausted all the air by time you reached the surface.

They had frogmen escort you up just in case anything went wrong, i.e. panic and hold your breath, which would have ruptured your lungs from the pressure.

I read that during WWII, a U-Boat was sunk with all hands in about 200 feet of water, and the crews of the destroyers were amazed as heads started bobbing up out of the water, so it was a theory that worked, unlike some others.

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Thanks, it's good to hear confirmation from someone who was actually in the submarine service.

And thank you for your service. 🇺🇸

The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.–J.B. Haldane

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