MovieChat Forums > Broken Arrow Discussion > Debra Paget's Astonishing Beauty

Debra Paget's Astonishing Beauty

posted 16 years ago by bastasch8647
32 replies | jump to latest

(Given that the Native American parts ought to have been played by Native Americans:)

Wasn't Debra Paget beautiful. She had the exactly-fitting grace and beauty to perfectly portray "the Apache maiden, Sonseearay." I believe she was only eighteen at the time (1950), fresh out of high school. Whatever magic the makeup department applied to transform her into a Native American was enhanced by her refined and finely-etched performance. It's a wonder that James Stewart and Jeff Chandler did not fall for her (maybe they did!). Rarely has the camera captured such loveliness. Debra Paget became my first movie-star crush when, as a kid, I saw "Arrow" on black and white TV. Now, having seen it in glorious color, Paget looks even more lovely than I remembered her... (For another similar, amazing transformation, view Jean Simmons as a Nepalese girl in "Black Narcissus.)

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jib122-1 16 years ago

You seriously need to rethink 2 of these three claims.

[–] kwb400 16 years ago

Howcan he say two of those things? You are right, he needs to rethink his statements.

[–] mhmohawks 16 years ago

From this movie she is one of the most beutiful people to portay an Indian. To call this film racist is crazy.
IT IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE FILMS TO SHOWN INDIANS IN ATPOSITIVE LIGHT. IT DESERVES FAR MOR CREDIT THAN IT GOT. THEY WERE PIONEERS LONG BEFORE DANCES WITH WOLVES. AS SEVERAL OTHER DID TOO.
tOP NOTCH GREAT WESTERN

[–] gkirkbo 15 years ago

Sad to say, but this movie did have an odd type of behind-the-scenes racism about it...In the movie, Debra Paget's character was killed...This was mostly a true story until the ending...The real Shoshonnarey was not killed and she and Tom Jeffords had a long marriage...The producers, etc wanted her character to die as a statement that inter-racial marriage is bad.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 13 years ago

"The real Sons-ee-array..." What the hell are you talking about? There was no real Sons-ee-array! At least none that married Tom Jeffords. The Apache woman of that name mentioned in Cremony's book is clearly not married to Jeffords. The romance part of the film was completely fictional. Quit trying to make political points with lies that you pull out of your @$$.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's living!!!"
Augustus McCrae

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

Sonseeahray not historical; at least not a marriage to Tom. Alas, my starry-eyed daydream is dashed.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 11 years ago

Rye bread,
There was an Apache woman named Sons-ee-ah-ray, but she had no connection whatsoever with Tom Jeffords. Her only historical mention is in the book, Life Among the Apache, by John C. Cremony, published in 1869, IIRC, and available in recent reprints. She is described as a young woman in her teens, of surpassing beauty. I have no doubt this real person was the basis for the character played by Debra Paget.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

I picked up on that while following the weblink trail. Was reading a book excerpt at Google Books; can't remember which one. Might've been the book by Eliot Arnold which the movie was based on. It mentioned what you're saying; that a real Sonseeahray was the basis for the char. Was disappointed that this was fictional, as was the Apache marriage vows.

[–] waldenpond88 12 years ago

Hi gkirkbo,

How did you find out that she lived happily ever after with Tom Jeffords? On Wikipedia she is not even mentioned and I couldn't google her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Jeffords

[–] waldenpond88 12 years ago

I googled her once more and she was invented for the movie:

“The original text of the “Apache Wedding Prayer” derives from Elliott Arnold’s 1947 novel Blood Brother, which was adapted into a screenplay for the 1950 Jimmy Stewart/Jeff Chandler film Broken Arrow. The book and film are fictionalized accounts of the historically-documented friendship betweem Tom Jeffords and the Apache leader Cochise during the Apache Wars.

To keep the fictionalized Tom Jeffords company, Arnold invented a beautiful young Apache maiden named Sonseeahray as a love interest and, as Arnold concedes in the book’s preface, he also invented the wedding rite depicted in the book. No such Apache ritual exists, according to historians John E. O’Connor and Angela Aleiss; Arnold’s wording of the “ceremony of love” is significantly different from the version we know today...

See more here:
http://www.tucsonministers.com/wedding-readings/origin-of-the-benediction-of-the-apaches/

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

Been search-engine-ing to find some mention of a real historical Sonseeahray. This is the 1st thing I’ve seen. 10-Q. I’m encouraged to keep on looking.

[–] Skye_Reynolds 8 years ago

Sad to say, but this movie did have an odd type of behind-the-scenes racism about it...In the movie, Debra Paget's character was killed...This was mostly a true story until the ending...The real Shoshonnarey was not killed and she and Tom Jeffords had a long marriage...The producers, etc wanted her character to die as a statement that inter-racial marriage is bad.

I thought that was the case as well, but I didn't realize when I first saw this film that it was (loosely) based on a true story. I don't know how reliable it is, but Wikipedia says that Jeffords's wife was killed in a raid shortly after their marriage.

Fox was obviously a bit tentative about the interracial relationship, or else they would have had an actual American Indian playing the part, but I don't think it's as simple as killing her off to show that such relationships are forbidden.

Fox made another western where Debra Paget played an Indian and she and her white husband lived happily ever after.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 8 years ago

Wikipedia doesn't say anything at all about Jeffords even being married, much less losing his wife in a raid. What orifice did you pull this story out of?

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

[–] dancingmike 15 years ago

Today's standards can't be overlaid to the past. Most girls in those days were wives at 15 or 16. They were considered women as soon as their puberty began. Hey, just like the multiple wife Mormons of today believe. Now that's pedophilia, not what happened in the 1870s.

While the film actually shows native Americans in a positive light (unlike what I was taught in school) there is a significant racist point raised in the film. Heaven forbid we should be horrified by having a white man -- especially James Stewart -- marry a member of an inferior race. Better to have her killed off. After all, it was national policy to consider native Americans expendable.

The film was based on real people and I was very glad to see another comment that pointed out the couple actually had a long married life.

This is a practice that hasn't gone away, though. In the current TV program, Dirty, Sexy Money the transgendered woman in a love affair with one of the principal characters ended up being shot. Everything old is new again.

[–] Errington_92 12 years ago

there is a significant racist point raised in the film. Heaven forbid we should be horrified by having a white man -- especially James Stewart -- marry a member of an inferior race. Better to have her killed off.

Personally I do not view the death of Sonseeahray as being a part of a racist agenda from the film makers. It would contradict the entire film. I viewed Sonseeahray's death as a reminder of the racism conveyed by some of the characters within Broken Arrow. That although there were people such as Tom who were open minded, there still were people who were narrow minded. Therefore people like Tom should continue being open minded and not let Sonseeahray's death be in vain.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

This is an intelligent and nuanced POV. This is the POV of someone interested in reconciling & dialogue instead of divisiveness.

[–] EtaoinShrdlu001 8 years ago

It's pretty much what Cochise and the final Voice Over said, too.

I prefer the toad less raveled

[–] ContinentalOp 14 years ago

"Actually she was only 16.

Stewart was a pedophile."

I think you will find that a paedophile is only interested in PRE-pubescent girls. Also, age of consent in most countries is about 15 and in England it is 16.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

[–] so_oregon 14 years ago

actually, according to an interview she gave AmericanProfile, she was 14 during the filming and celebrated her 15th birthday at the end of the filming.

But, times were different, both in 1950 and during the era depicted in the film.

[–] shaunwtx 14 years ago

I'm half Kiowa Indian and in the hospital watching this film for the first time with my grandpa (full blooded Kiowa, 92 yrs old). We think it's a decent movie. Anytime white people try to portray Indians it makes me laugh.

Gramps is getting a kick out of it also :)

[–] rokrox 14 years ago

Yeah, it's kinda racist to have the white actors get painted to look like American Indians, but it's better than having the Indians portrayed as animals. And Chocise is the most awesome character ever. It's funny that they all talk perfect English with clear American or English accents though.

Debra Paget is really beautiful in this, and I don't think it's paedophilia, as it was mentioned in the movie that she is supposed to be older and she's clearly fully developed.

Oh, and the fact that she gets killed has been called racist. It's not really, and it's not condemming inter-racial marriages, because that's the reason why the peace treaty worked, and Jeffords says in the voice over that she'll always be with him, so their love will never die basically. That shows that even if you hate inter-racial marriages, you can't fight love.

"Of course it's me, who were you expecting?"

[–] vpilutis 13 years ago

It's funny that they all talk perfect English with clear American or English accents though.

That was explained at the start would you rather have had subtitles?

Its not at all paedophilia white girls got married as young as 12 in the old west.
Some of the frontier laws on marrage were still in affect going into the 1930s

And oh yes Debra was very lovely, a very little lady who kept getting cast with six footers like Steward, Charlton Heston, Vincent Price, John Derek etc

She still with us happy to say, sad to say she became something of a holy roller

http://vbphoto.biz

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

Looked her up on Wikipedia. She’s a born again Christian. That can cover a lot of ground. Jimmy Carter, Johnny & June Cash, Kanye West, Mariah Carey, Mr. T, etc. Some genuine, some iffy.

May moi submit the observation that bias against ethnicity, religion, income, gender, etc. is easy to fall into. & sometimes hard to recognize.

[–] rye-bread 11 years ago

Freedom of speech, mon ami. If you got the legal goods on a guy who’s no longer alive, on an incident that might’ve happened 60 years ago, go for it.

As for the age disparity, that’s casting’s fault. No doubt lotsa stuff went on.

As for racism, lotsa of that going on, too. The Charlie Chan & Stepin Fetchit movies are worse.

[–] Herowithgreeneyesandblue 12 years ago

Indeed she is beautiful and more so as she gets older and becomes a fully-made woman. Here she's 16/17 and as James Stewart looks older than his 25 years of age, it appears to be "not quite right". A 25 year old with a mature 16 year old has nothing wrong to it as such.

Somebody posted she was 14. That would have been Cry Of The City in which she gives one VERY conservative kiss on the corner of Richard Conte's mouth plus a hug and he doesn't really kiss her back.

There's plenty of items of corrupted interest available to us, but this isn't one of them and I wanted to set it straight.

Of course we don't know what went on behind the curtain. As one model once stated in a sarcastic quip. You "make it" by sleeping with a 50 year old photographer at age 14. Roman Polanski is far more fodder for this kind of thing if you want to look and didn't Woody Allen marry his daughter. So-what.

I like waking up in the morning not knowing who I'll meet or where I'll end up: The Titanic

[–] deltascorch90 12 years ago

I just knew someone would call a film even like this "racist." I thought that the Apaches were amazing characters of strong honor and integrity, and it must have been quite a revolution at the time to portray them in a sympathetic light. It's all about that context that matters.

I'm particularly opposed to race mixing myself and find an anti-miscegenation message inspiring.

[–] oybth 12 years ago

Jeff Chandler almost won the supporting actor oscar for this. In those times, VARIETY used to poll academy members regarding their voting. It reported that Jeff Chandler was a frontrunner, but that George Sanders was rapidly closing the gap. I'm paraphrasing. Of course, Sanders won for, "All About Eve".
Yes, Debra Paget was indeed astonishingly beautiful. She was so under-used in films. I mainly think of her as co-starring with Robert Wagner, or Clifton Webb.
Compare to other movies about Native Americans in those days, this is a refreshing film; and it did win accolades from prestigious groups.

[–] bradford-1 12 years ago

I am more upset that Jay Silverheels got no screen credit for his role. I understand that whites were routinely cast as Indians back then (at least for the main spekaing parts; there are obviously many Native Americans here as extras). Also, in the opening narration "Jeffords" tells us that the Apaches will be speaking English rather than their native language. They also would've probably spoken some Spanish, too.
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

[–] lisajohn-4 9 years ago

Stewart was 42 years old when this film was made.

[–] Skye_Reynolds 8 years ago

The first time I saw this film, I was blown away by how stunning Debra Paget looked. She was a classic beauty and stellar in every film I've seen her in. She played a similar role in another Fox western, White Feather. In that one, you get to see her bare back in one scene where she's waiting in bed naked for the protagonist.