MovieChat Forums > Twelve O'Clock High (1950) Discussion > Savage's reason for visiting Ben in Hosp...

Savage's reason for visiting Ben in Hospital


I have recently seen the film for the first time and was impressed by its character development.

One thing that I am still curious about is what did General Savage want to say to Ben when he had visited Ben in the hospital.
Savage had clearly wanted to say something specific, he started to say something on several occasions, but then changed his mind each time and simply asked whether there was anything that he could do for Ben or send to Ben.

I did not read the novel nor the original screenplay, but Savage may have wanted to tell Ben that Ben was now totally exhonerated from his previous lapses in responsibility and courage.
Or even to tell Ben that Lepers Colony was to be discontinued by the
newly-found courage of Ben.

Savage's indecisiveness and self-doubt, when approaching the hospital, is diametrically opposed to his consistent decisiveness in the scenes, where he makes military decisions. Personal vs Professional..

I had found the hospital scene to be an important one in the film, clearly showing transformation of character during a specific period of time.
Savage's character did not really change, but that was the first instance of its tender side.

Ben's was clearly a different character in the hospital than it was in his first encounter with Savage in the beginning of the film.



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I'm not sure how far they let Peck, as Savage, play that scene but it looks to me as if that was acted as if it was "real life". Based on Savage's personality, I just couldn't see how he'd show his emotions to Gately under the circumstances. The script seemed to be perfect there showing how Savage was of two minds when seeing Gately but, of course, he only showed the side he was most comfortable with while a commander.

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I've probably seen 12 O'Clock High at least a half-dozen times, but it's been a while since my last viewing. As I remember it, the hospital scene is the first time we get to see Savage's empathetic side, is a turning point in the film. For the first time he becomes a likable human being rather than just an admirable one, yet because of this it also anticipates his breakdown later on, so in a sense it's a tragic scene, the beginning of the end for Savage. 12 O'Clock High is one tough minded movie. It's message seems to be that as far as being a commanding officer is concerned, once you let yourself feel something, show your true emotions, loosen up, you're a goner. It's just a matter of time before you go around the bend.

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Agreed. Ben's condition was also revealed to Savage by the medic and that moved him to offer empathy. I believe it moved him enough to want to offer words of sympathy and admiration - it was at the tip of his tongue - and his softened tone as he hesitated to say it, betrayed his objective. He held back, however and instead showed it through action - making sure that Ben got 5 star medical treatment.

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LOVE your handle!



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War has a destructive effect on a human being. Maybe the best defense is to hold it in. I think that's why so many WWII vets NEVER talked about their experiences until the were in their 60s and 70s.
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Actually the first time we see Savage's tender side is when he learns that none of the pilots will transfer and is overcome with emotion for a minute, unable to speak.

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Yes - I interpreted it that he was hiding the welling in his eyes, but fought back his emotions and eventually barked back at the other officers. I thought that this and the hospital visit were a great scenes.

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I think Savage wanted to tell him that he was sorry for having told him at the beginning of the film that he was a coward and horrible officer and demoting him to the "Leper Colony" because the Doc told him how Ben had just flown 3 missions with a broken back obviously because he wanted to try and prove himself to Savage but Savage just couldn't bring himself to say how wrong he was and how proud he was so he instead got the Nurse involved. Just men being Men & trying to hide their feelings.

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Gotta disagree. Savage was right about Gately. He WAS a bad officer. It was GATELY who changed, not Savage.



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I find that scene very powerful and it is one of my all-time favorite. My take is that while Frank Savage knows how to be tough and is comfortable being a tough commander, he does have a lot of compassion for his men, yet he doesn't quite know how to show it -- very human. It was so superbly played out by Peck.

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The impression that I got when General Savage is outside the hospital before going in, is that he was going to ream Gately out for endangering his men, aircraft and mission by flying in an unfit condition. Three times no less! Gately could have gotten everyone on his plane killed if he were suddenly incapacitated. As a leader he should've known better and should have had himself removed from duty until he had recovered. Savage looked like he was angry when told about what Gately had done.

But then Savage hesitates before going in - his bearing changes as probably he remembers how he had accused Gately of cowardice and malingering, that Gately likely by this point would do anything to avoid looking like he was giving anything less than "maximum effort". Savage's expression softens, then he throws down his cigarette to punctuate his mood change and enters the hospital.

Once inside he is faced with the dilemma of how to let Ben know he did good, without appearing that he had gone soft.

That's my take on it.

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It was a key scene in the film showing how difficult it is to bear up under the stress of this kind of combat, specifically for the commanders close to the men who send them on these missions. The film has made the point from the beginning that it leads to the very human tendency to "over-identify" with your men which is what Col. Keith Davenport fell into that led to an inability to focus on mission.

The early scenes laid out the risk of this for commanders and contrasted Davenport and Gately. Davenport supported and worried about his men, flew too many missions as commander, and ended up feeling unable to prioritize the mission over the men. They kept pointing out this happened because Davenport is a "first rate human being." Gately coped with the stress differently, staying more withdrawn from the risk and stress of sending men, flew too few missions, and didn't offer support that Davenport needed to stay mission focused. This is how a good person with potential could end up acting cowardly, and, like the poster said, Savage was right to call him out.

Having laid out this argument, the film works to avoid a more formulaic solution to the problem. War movies traditionally see this as a character issue. Good men with good characters are brave and follow through and don't fail. Men with bad character shirk their duty and fail.

But the film wants to show that what these air crews are being asked to do is entirely unreasonable and unfair to ask of young men. But they have to ask it anyway or lose the war. It's an impossible position to be in. Davenport fails but fails in an honorable human way.

This film doesn't want the point to be that Savage is braver or stronger or a better commander or has a better character than Davenport and that's why he succeeds. Leave that to a lesser film. This film wants to show that the difference is the choice to focus on the mission and Savage can do this in part because he's learned from Davenports mistake and in part because he's had time at mission control to understand the reasons for the missions. The ongoing conversation with the flight doctor keeps making the point that it's an unreasonable stress men are asked to do and the question is not "which man is good enough to do it?" but "how many missions can even the best men survive before they breakdown and are not mentally fit to fly?"

To do this he has to prevent himself from "over-identification" with his men, and you can watch Savage struggle all along with his human tendency to like people and be a good guy. When his adjutant agrees to delay the transfers and believes in the 918th, Savage wants to thank him and shake his hand but he carefully limits himself and does his "you red tape guys are all alike" knowing line and keeps his distance. You see many moments where Savage carefully limits closeness to the men so he can help them focus on mission and so he can keep himself from getting to close. To the same end you can see many scenes where he doesn't say what he's really feeling (his fear, relief, or gratitude) so he can keep the breezy front going that models the fortitude you need. For example, big smile "it was a great mission, we lost only one plane" is what you have to say, when what you want to say is, horrified look "oh my god, which plane?! Oh no, that guy had a family and his co-pilot just got engaged!!!" The second is what humans want to say, and continually stuffing that down and staying focused and positive is probably not easy. And in that kind of stress will eventually lead to the kind of breakdown Savage has later. At the beginning of the film you see Davenport saying some of the second.

The hospital scene is the key and major example. Jtk is probably right that Savage has prepared a tell-off about Gately endangering his crew but Savage can't help but feel emotionally proud of Gately for his bravery and commitment and for bearing up under the stress of the Leper Colony treatment and changing himself--becoming the officer he should have been. Savage paces outside the hospital trying to compose himself with the proper distance. At the bedside you can almost hear all the things Savage wants to say but doesn't because they need to keep strong and stay mission focused. Gately now is right on key and shows the same calm strength and fortitude. Savage only lets Gately know his appreciation and pride in Gately indirectly through the nurse's comment, and Gately's controlled emotional response shows the kind of fortitude these men have to commit to in order to risk death everyday and coldly send fine men to death.

The fact that Savage has his combat fatigue breakdown to me is part of the film's powerful argument that this kind of combat stress breaks even the best men. The difference isn't if you're brave you're fine. The difference is if you're willing to give "maximum effort" and risk this kind of breakdown then you're doing your job and we just might have a chance in this war. The breakdown shows Savage's bravery more to me, not less, because he is willing to go that far and risk that much. That's what Savage earlier at the hospital appreciated about Gately too, but held himself back from saying it.

This theme is interesting to me, a non-combatant, because war films frequently make the argument that you need close human inter-identification with your men to survive terrible combat. They're right and it's probably more the role of sergeants who hold their men together this way. But even when sergeants aren't determining the mission, they still are sending their men into mortal danger regularly. Over-identification is likely a risk at all levels.

So there is in many films a fond and romantic idea about the closeness of men in combat and we might think over-identification is impossible and soldiers need to support each other no exceptions. But I'm guessing there are limits. Men in combat probably have to shape each other up sometimes and stiffen resolve even if it seems callous. This film is about the commanders' responsibility to do that. And it makes sense. Why let all these young men come to the mortal risk of this theater of war if you're just going to reduce their chances of victory by protecting them from the mission.

It also shows the absolute importance of having a damn good reason to fight a war if you're going to ask people to fight it.

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You answered your own question.

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