who was the bigger cad..... Morris or her dad?

I say they're equally caddish, but in different ways. Well and truly does Catherine say of her own cruelty, "I have been taught by masters."

~~~~~~~
Think cynical thoughts.

I thought the dad was the best character in the movie. He was correct about judging Morris. I am sure he consciously meant well for his daughter.

Most posters here, unfortunately, see the Doctor as the villain. To me he is admirable. The comments below are from some past posts here of mine.

OK, so the Doctor insults Catherine ONCE in a tirade. (A few other slights are explainable in the Doctors' favor.) He was exasperated and reached the breaking point -- he had taken her to Europe to forget Morris, and she still said she was going to marry him. The Doctor said that "for months" he made an effort "not to be unkind" to Catherine, but then let it all out in that one scene -- that she has nothing to offer a man other than money, that she only embroiders well. Big deal, so he made a mistake there, but he said the truth about Morris, which Catherine was blind to see (she once said something obtuse like "I am everything he wants in a woman"). She was a grown woman. She had a mind and experiences with many people in her circle. Why couldn't she be understanding of her father's exasperation? Anyway, in the very next scene with her, the Doctor corrects his heated remarks: Catherine tells the Doctor that Morris deserted her, not the other way around. The Doctor then tells Catherine that Morris is a scoundrel she is fortunate to be rid of. The Doctor says: "you'll find some honest, decent man some day;" "You have many fine qualities;" that her fortune will make "it possible to choose [a husband] with discretion." " That seems OK to me. What more could he have said? Meanwhile, her boycotting her dying father is horrible and unforgivable.

(The other scene where the Doctor was harsh to Catherine:in the red dress scene, he says "but your mother was fair and dominated the color..." Harsh, I'll admit, but before that, in the same scene, he was gracious and told Catherine that she is "never a disturbing person" when she wants to see him and asks "Am I disturbing you, Father?" When he sees her in the dress, he says,"Is it possible this magnificent person is my daughter?. .... .... You are sumptuous, opulent. ... ... ... Look like a person with an $80,000 income!" Only when Catherine and Lavinia bring up the subject of the late mother and red did the Doctor make the unkind remark.)

(Also the Doctor spent much time trying to instruct Catherine himself and in showering her with outside socializing influences (best instructors, family, etc.) He implored family members to socialize her, accompany her about and beseeching her to join in on their doings. He could see that she was a "social mess" and tried every way he knew to correct it. This shows the Doctor's concern for his daughter. Also, with all the outside influences on her, it is hard to blame the Doctor for how she turned out.

Sorry for the long post. It makes me madder the more I see this great movie. To me the Doctor is the best person in the movie, and both Morris and Catherine are horrible people. On one hand we have the Doctor -- OK, so he is a little cold and sarcastic. So he expects too much of dull, introverted Catherine; he should have finally given up trying to socialize her long ago, I guess, and loved her unconditionally. But any normal parent would be concerned about and eager to educate such a shy child, who had to be unhappy with such shyness, withdrawal and awkwardness. That showed some love. I don't think he hated her or even came close to that.

I agree that the father is worse. He damaged his daughter's self-esteem for her entire life, and undoubtedly made her feel responsible for her mother's death. He only cares about her in a way that many parents do, which is, that the child is supposed to make the parent look good. It is too often stated that parents love their children unconditionally. I don't really believe that most do.

I've always thought about this movie, "take away the money and the air of sophistication, and Dr. Sloper is just like my father."

I think the point of Henry James is that one was totally caught up with wealth, the other was totally caught up with beauty.

Morris, in fact, had looks but no money.

Father had money - but his only daughter (as he saw it) lacked all that makes a woman attractive at face value.

Both were obviously ignoring the human being inside.

"Don't call me 'honey', mac."
"Don't call me 'mac'... HONEY!"

Her father was the more reprehensible.

He disapproved of Morris certainly, but based on what, is my question.

I think he felt this dashing young figure of a man could not possibly interested in his cabbage of a daughter because she was not worthy of the attention of such a good looking man.

He was projecting his own feelings towards his daughter onto Morris.

The fact that he was indeed correct about Morris' lack of substance was dumb luck.

Sloper *should* have been asking "why wouldn't good looking young men want my wonderful daughter" not the opposite.

Sloper didn't value his daughter at all.

V. sad.



Look at this, it's a nighty. She would look sexy in that, you'd look like a moose!

Her dad was very cruel to Catherine. He did not have to react the way he did when she showed him her new dress, that as so mean. What he said to his sister was incredibly hateful as well. I think the father did love her, he just did not respect her at all. I don't think he despised her the way Catherine thought. He just wanted her to be more like her mother instead of accepting her as she was.

I do think he was looking after her best interest in seeing to it that Morris left her alone, but he just needed to be so much kinder.

Dr. Sloper is not the villain, Morris Townsend is. Very early in this film, he is described by his own sister as having previously sought out women with superficial charms before Catherine came into the picture. She is surprised that Catherine is so unlike his previous interests, so there is a major clue that he's shallow and has a questionable history with women. She goes on to describe how he used his inheritance to better his options for himself, not aiding her situation with even the offer to help her financially. While she does not think this unusual, Dr. Sloper does for it indicates his character as neither considerate of others nor toward his aunt's family with whom he now is residing.

Morris manipulates Catherine by failing to regard the conventions of the social level which Catherine holds and her father knows and follows these social rules. Catherine is too naive and sheltered to have a point of reference having been brought up with her father's standards of behavior to recognize Morris has compromised her reputation by his mercenary overtures. His marriage proposal is an insult in the eyes of Dr. Sloper, who sees what he is about. Morris makes Catherine promise that even if Dr. Sloper is against his proposal, that she will remain true to him, knowing that her father will not approve of him in foresight.

Catherine is without guile, dignity, without poise, without recognition of her position in society because she never entertains or interacts in social settings that are not outside her class and social status of a wealthy, single woman. She is shy, ignorant and open to the first suitor who pays her compliment because she does not have experience with men in social settings of a courting nature. Aunt Lavinia is supposed to be protecting her from such men as Morris, but instead, she is the person who formally introduces him to her niece at the engagement party. Lavinia fails also to chaperone properly leaving Catherine and Morris alone in the front parlor, a fact Dr. Sloper points out to his over zealous sister-in-law.

While Dr. Sloper wants a reliable, trustworthy, and financially secure honest man for Catherine, he ascertains that Townsend is too willing and too eager to compliment he and Catherine, an insincere gesture he recognizes because it is what he already does with his daughter. Morris and Dr. Sloper are ying and yang with Catherine the willing victim of their cruelty.
Dr. Sloper recognizes that Townsend is impertinent, without profession, prospects, and represents all that a fortune hunter would target sensing his daughter the willing victim of his attentions. He promises Catherine that he will be as honest with Morris as he was with Catherine, a brutal awakening he fulfills on their return from Europe at her stubbornness to give up the man she loves. Morris' connives to charm Aunt Lavinia and Catherine who are so eager for romance they both throw themselves at him without self-respect. Silly in an older widow like Lavinia, pathetic in Catherine. He knows how to get
women to do his dirty work and in the end, his pupil Catherine demonstrates how well she learned from this master.



-- Ew lover, you gonna make me clutch my pearls --

Morris. Her father wasn't a cad, in fact he tried to warn her about the fortune hunter Morris, but she being a silly romantic woman, hated him for it. He was right all along.