I didn't think he was a gigolo. If he was he would have found someone else with money but he apparently didn't. And he didn't come back into her life immediately after her father died. It was a few years later. If she was smart she could have kept him on a short leash and left her money to someone else when she died. She was on the way to becoming an old, dried up cat lady. Having Morris would be better than that.
I'm Dale. But you have to call me Dragon. Step Brothers
I disagree. As someone who liked the Doctor as the best character in the movie, let me say that Morris was a rat IMHO. The clincher --not that anything much is needed for convincing-- is that when he deserted her, he didn't even have the simple curtsey of writing her a farewell note (a lying one, anything really) to assuage her hurt feelings. Inexcusable.
>>>> "[H]e didn't come back into her life immediately after her father died,"<<<<<< -- probably because he was eying richer women, or more likely: he was across the country in California and didn't know he died. Also, he probably knew his chances to get her again were slim to none, and he probably returned when he was desperate at the bottom of the barrel.
>>>>> "If she was smart she could have kept him on a short leash and left her money to someone else when she died."<<<<<<<< -- I'm no expert, but I think the laws at that time gave the husband a lot of rights over her money. I guess she could disinherit him, but while they were alive, I wonder..... In any event, at that time divorce was considered a moral calamity, a no-no.
>>>>>> She was on the way to becoming an old, dried up cat lady.<<<<<<< -- Maybe, but as the father said: "you'll find some honest, decent man some day;" "You have many fine qualities;" that her fortune will make "it possible to choose [a husband] with discretion." " That seems OK to me.
One major thing to remember during those times, a husband had total control over his wife and any money that came to her UNLESS he agreed prior to the marriage in writing that any money she inherited would be solely under her control or in a trust. Obviously, he wasn't going to sign anything that would remove her money from his control/influence.
I think he was a rat too but I really didn't like the father due to the way he constantly belittled her comparing her to her deceased mother. Its no wonder she had no self-esteem and fell for a fortune hunter like Morris. Also, the father should've had him checked out after his 3rd time calling within a week. That should've been a strong clue to the father but his arrogance wouldn't let him think anyone would want the daughter.
Olivia DeHaviland was magnificent, William Wyler really had brilliant direction and it's no wonder she won the Oscar for this role.
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"A transplanted Rebel" Vicki
Olivia De Haviland has said that she let William Wyler direct every nano-second of that performance. She placed herself entirely in his command. How shrewd of her, much like the adult Catherine. He directed her not only to an Oscar for Best Actress, but to one of cinema's all-time tour de forces!
"Come back here, Sidney, I wanna chastise you,"
J.J. Hunsecker
William Wyler has never done "nano"!!!!!!!!! Wild call there.
share[deleted]
So, you must not believe in the old adage, Better alone than in bad company. And you believe that Catherine would be happy to enslave Morris and have to work to keep him away from her money the rest of her life. That doesn't sound like a life Catherine would be willing to enter into.
Morris was gone a long time, he probably did live off of other women or other family while he was gone. He was never really employed, so I would think that he continued his practice of leeching off of others. Catherine's aunt finds Morris and has to convince him to come see Catherine. If Morris had a job or a future or any kind of love for Catherine it would have been his idea to seek out Catherine and no one would have had to make him do it.
In those years apart, if Morris had felt anything for Catherine, he would have been motivated to work hard and become a man who could support himself and his wife and family, but he wasn't.
Now that Catherine was free to do as she pleased why would she want to be saddled down with such a burden of trying to keep Morris in line. They would both come to feel only resentment for each other.
meg.
Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that Morris was indeed a decent man. If he really left Catherine because he didn't want her to be estranged from her father, he would have written a letter that explained himself to her. He would have at least said good-bye. He would have kept in touch with her while he was away. And as chambers112 above me said, he would have worked hard to support himself and eventually Catherine (not that she really needed it, what with her inheritance and all, but it's the principle of the thing).
But Morris did NONE of that. He just up and left, without a thought of how it would affect Catherine, and then he waltzes back nearly a decade later, hoping to mooch off her once more. Morris was scum, plain and simple, and Catherine was right to put him in his place and move on.
"Will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?! It's bad for your complexion!"-"Sixteen Candles"
I still say Morris was basically a decent guy. A lot of viewers (mostly women I'm guessing) just want to see him as some monster. Some say he should have worked hard but he probably didn't have any skills. He was so poor he probably couldn't afford a pen and paper (a BIG expense in those days). And how could he ever explain himself? Morris was a young, attractive dude, what was so wrong about him trying to make the most of it? Women have been using their looks to their advantage since the beginning of time. He was just ahead of his time. Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money? In that last scene she was locking out the world for the rest of her life. Who'd want that?
I'm Dale. But you have to call me Dragon. Step Brothers
I think Morris was good, but he should not have left the way he did. He should have explained to her why they needed to wait.
He was going to pick her up anyway, so I feel he could have taken her for a drive and explained his view.
I also feel that when he came back and Catherine went upstairs to get his gift, he walked around the house and told her Aunt, "I'm home" showed that he cared more about the money than Catherine.
I'm sure Morris had plenty of skills, or at least enough to get a job. He was well liked and connected and attractive, so even with limited skills it would have been relatively easy to find employment.
He wasn't poor, his parents left him money. He spent it all and was working on spending his sister's inheritance by living off of her. If he found himself without, it was his own doing.
Some women may enter such relationships to secure a home, clothing and food, but I never got the impression that Catherine wanted to buy a man. Catherine wanted to be loved.
Catherine wasn't locking out the world for the rest of her life. She was ascending to a higher level and closing the door to her past. If she walked away from Morris, she could open her life to someone more deserving.
meg.
That ending with her turning out the lights and walking up the stairs was her closing herself off from the world IMO. Do you really think another guy was going to come for her? Because she sure didn't have any boyfriends. I wish the Morris character was more fleshed out because you're unsure if he's an OK guy who's a little insensitive or a gigolo. I thought he was basically good but could use a few manners. She should have given him another chance.
I'm Dale. But you have to call me Dragon. Step Brothers
"Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly."
It would be so easy for Catherine to find another man to marry, if that is what she wanted to do. I look around and see people who are the biggest ******** and they find someone. Why not Catherine?
About the giving Morris another chance. She gave him plenty of chances, she even said she went looking for him but he had run away. I guess you can see some good in the Morris character but to risk her emotions on trying again might not be such a good idea. Better to move on than to risk further damage.
meg.
Why should she give him another chance? She is the one with the money and she can now pick a new man that hasn't humiliated her. Morris isn't the only man in the world. I wanted to like him too but he makes it impossible. He is just too greedy. Morris could have married Catherine in the beginning but for some reason, her mother's inheritance wasn't enough for him. This is odd because I am sure it was more money then he had. They could have lived nicely on that and her father wasn't going to disinherit her anyway so she would eventually receive everything but that wasn't good enough for Morris. Oh, he can wait in the rain and be punctual for every meeting when Catherine is the heiress but two seconds after an argument with her dad and he hits the highway...absolutely no class. Catherine deserves better and she knows it. She is finished with Morris, embroidery, and the past.
"I'll tell ya in a minute".
Morris would have treated her better than Dr. Sloper of that I have no doubt but there is no way in Hades I would give him a second chance after deserting me that way. Other posters have mentioned and ITA agree with them that you could see how selfish he was by how he was dressed and how his sister was dressed. Any money that came in was spent on him as he lived that chamois lifestyle (spelling?) on a broadcloth budget. Perhaps if he wasn't buying chamois his sister could have been dressed well and lived well too. I don't blame Catherine a bit for locking the door on him and going up those stairs. For it is as she said when her aunt asked if she could be so cruel and she responds that she has been taught my masters.
shareI think more guys will come for her. She is indeed wealthy, and she is now more self-assured. Not cynic. The fact that she will not do any more needlepoint shows that she will not rot away in front of a loom anymore, and will come "into her own" as a woman now. She has proved to herself that she can cast back the small fry fishes, and can no more on with her life.
Morris is clearly a rat. He ended up with his booby-prize: Some jeweled buttons. When he can get in to see Cathy, his pitches a fit, as if he is a baby denied his candy. Not a dejected sad sack who has lost the love of his life. If he loved her, he would be SAD not tantrum prone.
"When you throw dirt, you lose ground" --old proverbshare
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he probably couldn't afford a pen and paper (a BIG expense in those days)
Morris was a young, attractive dude, what was so wrong about him trying to make the most of it? Women have been using their looks to their advantage since the beginning of time.
Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money?
Women have been using their looks to their advantage since the beginning of time. He was just ahead of his time. Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money? In that last scene she was locking out the world for the rest of her life. Who'd want that?
Anyone think he resembles Willoughby in Sense and Sensibility?
shareMorris was a bastard. Catherine had barely left the room ( to get the ruby buttons) and he was already sizing himself up as lord and master of her opulent and wealthy house. The way he drank catherine's fathers brandy and smoked his cigars while the man was away , had me fuming, and IMO revealed exactly the true weak and duplicitous nature of his character. Morris was a man who felt the world owed him something, and for which he had to do absolutely nothing in return.
I would rather live with a hundred cats in to my nineties than have to deal with such a weak willed and ridiculous man. The desperation in his final scene is about him realising, that having failed in life ie older, out of money and obviously out of luck, still parasiting off his sister, that he had just witnessed the exit of his very last ace. She played him a blinder, she played him like a man hence her smile in that final scene. Power, she was now mistress of herself.
ok, im ready now!
I totally agree! Morris and her father were very cruel people, Catherine knew that her father was cold and she always tried her best with him. Morris was a man who raised her spirits and lead her to believe that he loved her. A couple of my friends have a theory about why Morris showed great desperation. They have figured that perhaps Morris was in a lot of debt at this point of his life and he owed money to a lot of people like his sister and everyone else. Catherine was his small bit of hope left and basically he was left screwed and rightly so.
shareSadly, I see that there are still Morris Townsends in the world.
I guess it's like looking at clouds. You see one thing and I see another. Peace.
Kapukirk said, “She was on the way to becoming an old, dried up cat lady” and “Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money?”
Okay, Kapukirk, you need to look at your own unfortunate attitudes toward women. Why doesn’t anyone ever say of a man, “He was on the way to becoming an old, dried up cat man”? It is a male-manufactured myth that any women who isn’t getting regularly screwed by men is dried up and miserable. As far as the statement, “Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money?” is concerned, are you crazy? Would you say of a man, “Isn’t it better to have a relationship with a selfish, unloving woman than be alone with a lot of money?” The idea that ANY relationship, with ANY man, however selfish he may be, is preferable to being a rich, independent woman, is another male-manufactured myth.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power."
- Julius Caesar, act 2 sc 1
I don't Catherine was TOO unhappy at Washington Square. Remember when her cousin visited with her children? Catherine obviously had a good time with them and is shown to be a loving relative. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination that after she kicked Morris to the curb she finally got out and about and did some traveling.
"Will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?! It's bad for your complexion!"-"Sixteen Candles"
I don't Catherine was TOO unhappy at Washington Square. Remember when her cousin visited with her children? Catherine obviously had a good time with them and is shown to be a loving relative. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination that after she kicked Morris to the curb she finally got out and about and did some traveling.
I agree. After her father dies her style of dress is more revealing and her hairstyle is more attractive. So I don't think she sat idle the rest of her life. Her locking out Morris at the end was a clear message to him and in a way her aunt that there would be no more of that non-sense.
in regards to the op's post ... I don't think Morris was a bad guy either but he did not deserve a second chance when he did so poorly on the first one. More over, he did not love her, not even a tiny little bit and that was the clincher for Catherine. That's all she ever wanted. To be loved. First by her father, then by Morris. And both of them let her down on that account.
But the true irony of it is that she could never give Morris a second chance because she loved him so much. Had she not loved him as she did, then sure maybe she would have fancied the idea of having a hot hunk in bed with her but when you love someone you need and want them to love you back. If they can't, and you're sure they never will then you can never be with them and you can never forgive them.
I say she was better off without him, even if she never marries ( I think there are still plenty of chances she will, though)
ask the spokesperson, I don't have a brain
A lot of these comments shock me. Morris was not good at all. He was a rat. Monty Clift played him as a charming, handsome romantic who was honest enough to put his cards on the table regarding his lack of ambition and family wealth. That doesn't mean he did not fully intend to use Katherine for her money and her plush home. He probably figured it's a lot easier to live in luxury with a woman you can tolerate than work 16 hours a day trying to earn enough to please a woman you're crazy in love with.
It reminds me of Marilyn's character Lorilie Lee in "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" when she's confronted by her fiance's father. She posed the question, "If you had a daughter, wouldn't you want her to be happy? Wouldn't you rather she marry a rich man than a poor man?" She made her future father-in-law realize that she was a gold digger with a master plan & no idiot.
Same with Morris. He figured he could have a happy life with a plain Jane who worshipped him and would provide a comfortable home and lifelong income. He'd traveled around, weighed his options, and knew with his looks he could land a rich woman and kick back and cruise for the rest of his life. He was no idiot. He ran into a roadblock, though, in Dr. Sloper who'd worked all his life and had no use for lazy people. One of the reasons Dr. Sloper had such a poor opinion of Katherine was because she could not do anything except embroider. Of course in those days, women were not given opportunities for education. Katherine may have had hidden talents that went undeveloped because of the sexism of that era. In those days, women had to play the piano, sing, dance ballet, crochet/embroider, & speak flawless French to be considered well-rounded and refined. It was not considered that a woman could be an excellent lawyer, doctor or even understand how to manage her own finances.
By the end of the film, Katherine has become very shrewd. I could easily see her going into politics or starting a successful business. She had accrued real wisdom as well as brass b&&ls.
"One of the reasons Dr. Sloper had such a poor opinion of Katherine was because she could not do anything except embroider. Of course in those days, women were not given opportunities for education."
Just saw the movie tonight, so didn't Dr. Sloper also allude to one of the reasons he thought very little of Catherine was that he had given her every opportunity to learn many things, and she just wasn't very good at picking up anything but embroidering.
[deleted]
It seems Catherine was ripe for the picking.
That is why her father was so atrocious with her. She seemed kind of sluggish.
At the end when she got her tongue and spoke back to him, he changed some toward her.
but for them it was too late to salvage the father/daughter relationship.
Morris probably would a have spent every penny of her money gambling and drinking. The dad knew it and wanted to spare her.
Why didn't dear old daddy try to find her a husband all those years? Help her to improve her dress, and education and hair, makeup, etc?
because daddy wanted her to stay there and take care of him, is what I think was going on.
he wanted his money and a nurse.
Oh well, they were all mixed up weren't they? A good picture of human nature.
That is a good point, and I can see that in Daddy in retrospect...
shareJust saw the movie tonight, so didn't Dr. Sloper also allude to one of the reasons he thought very little of Catherine was that he had given her every opportunity to learn many things, and she just wasn't very good at picking up anything but embroidering.
I recently used that line in "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" to support that she was honest in her plan to marry rich, when comparing her other comedy, "How To Marry A Millionaire". I had hoped that she loved him, but I digress. I haven't seen this movie in a long time. But money is the common denominator in all. Your comment about him being happy in a loveless marriage may have translated that Catherine may have been happy also. I wonder how many power marriages were based on love in that time period. In the book Jane Eyre, the male protagonist married for money first, then love. Also, I wonder how different this is to arranged marriages amongst the rich, where no one works, and they live off the acquired wealth. I'm not giving Morris a pass because he lied to Catherine and her father. But it is a different story when all the cards are put on the table.
If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world
It sort of reminded me of Bette Davis' character in Now Voyager.... not to the same extent, but still - once released from the overbearing parent, both women blossomed.
shareOkay, Kapukirk, you need to look at your own unfortunate attitudes toward women. Why doesn’t anyone ever say of a man, “He was on the way to becoming an old, dried up cat man”? It is a male-manufactured myth that any women who isn’t getting regularly screwed by men is dried up and miserable. As far as the statement, “Isn't it better to have a relationship rather than for her to be alone with her father's money?” is concerned, are you crazy? Would you say of a man, “Isn’t it better to have a relationship with a selfish, unloving woman than be alone with a lot of money?” The idea that ANY relationship, with ANY man, however selfish he may be, is preferable to being a rich, independent woman, is another male-manufactured myth.
I saw it again last night.... I could almost agree with the "Morris wasn't a bad guy" argument except for one crucial point. When he deserted her, he COULD HAVE WRITTEN A LETTER explaining why he did what he did. The fact that she never heard from him, that he left her no message at all, even when she went to see his sister, really showed his true colors. A decent, honorable man would have at least written a letter explaining his motives and feelings.
"the best that you can do is fall in love"
Wikipedia says that the character of Morris was actually more villainous in the play, but that the producers wanted to make him more sympathetic in the movie because Montgomery Clift was trying to become more of a romantic lead and they didn't want to affect that.
Is anyone familiar with the play, book, or other versions? Can someone say how Morris was portrayed as more villainous? (What did he do or say that showed it?)
I think it is good that Montgomery Clift made him more sympathetic, it really gives the film that TWIST... He is so convincing. I have seen this film a few times, and I still cannot really be angry with him. He is just so real...
Having dating many Morris types, I have to say, I am really really GLAD I did not marry any of them!!! Morris types are really fun to date, but I don't think marriage would be good. As soon as that charm dissolves, you are left with the reality.
But I think that in this film, the marriage could have worked, except that she saw through him, and was such an honest person, she could not stand living with his betrayal... She could not forgive him for what he did, or what he was...
But I think that if the father had approved of the marriage, it might have worked out, maybe... As one person said, maybe they would have had children, and it would be something she could have focused on...
This film has a lot more truth in it than we would like to admit... In my life, I have never found a perfect man, so one has to either settle for less, or keep dating, or just give up.
I choose to keep dating, although one does keep running into Morris's....
Hi BlondeIsBetter,
The movie is an adaptation of the play. In the play both Morris and the Dr. Sloper are true bastards and the audiences applauds when Catherine one ups them. The screenwriters softened both characters but both men were impossible; Dr. Sloper, emotionally detached until the very end, Morris, a scheming fortune hunter. In my opinion Catherine needed to see Morris once again before she realized what a true loser he was.
Wow, eadoe, you are one angry Birkenstock-wearing PhD in wimmin's studies! How many old cat men have you actually ever heard of, as opposed to old cat ladies? And of course, women hardly ever marry men for their money.
shareHi liscarkat,
I assume you're a kid and a rather ignorant one at that. I was asked a question and answered it. By the way, I don't wear Birkenstocks, hate cats, don't have a Ph.D...yet. If I do get one, it will be in film history, not women's (not wimmin's, you moron) studies. Yes, women marry for money and so do men. Instead of wasting your time trolling classic film boards and showing how ill-bred you are, please work out your obvious anger towards women(or is it wimmins?) elsewhere.