I can't stop watching this movie... - Portrait of Jennie (1949) Discussion

[–] m0rphy 20 years ago

Yes I agree.Read my biography of Jennifer Jones in Imdb re her 2001 A&E biography video when I state this is my favourite Jennifer Jones film.

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I'll do it for sure...thanks for the feedback!!!

In fact I've just read it and its excellent!! So much info about Ms. Jones...and I agree that P. of Jennie is her best...

I loved too "Good Morning Miss Dove", "Stazione Termini", "Beat the Devil", "Ruby Gentry", "Love Letters", "Duel in the Sun", "Since You Went Away", "Madame Bovary"....

.....I also wrote a minor review at amazon.com, for the dvd edition of Portrait....there I'm identified as "Fedo"...would like your opinion...
thanks

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[–] WEBUTLER 20 years ago

I totally agree with you on this one. In fact, it is one of my top 20 favorite films along with "Love is a Many-Splendored Thing." "Portrait of Jennie" has an other-worldly feel to it and Miss Jones possesses a timeless beauty to her that belongs to all ages. The opening narration with the swirling clouds, the scene changes that begin with a painter's canvass effect along with the music of Debussey give the film a haunting quality. I have seen a print of the portrait of Jennie used in the final color art museum in a record store in New York City.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] djagoon 15 years ago

WHAT? You have seen a print copy of the Portrait of Jennie painting?? Tell me where! [email protected]

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

i loved the period local color from nyc of the 1940s ,,, the skyline the park the delving into an earlier age ,,, you watch a good portion of the movie before you realize jennie is a ghost ,,, everytime you see the movie you find a new detail in it ,,, excellent piece of cinematography

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

Yes you are right, this movie needs to be watched a lot of times and it deserves to be justly hailed as the classic; it is and one of the most haunting films ever...If I had to take five films to a desert island, for sure this one would be the first!

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

ive seen the movie dozens of times,,, but only recently saw the interesting facet of theparallel between the ghosts in life the ragamuffins in the bar who feed the starving artist and the ghost jenny

and its in little details about them that the author showed an intimate knowledge of subject matter

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I haven't realized anything of the sort!! I'll have to watch it again and pay more attention; thanks for the valuable feedback!

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

after you see the movie again contact me ... there is a parallel between the two portraits that the artists executes, the portrait of long deceased jennie and the mural he paints for the bar ,,, it shows the author well knew the ragamuffins in the tavern

it's the type of detail that someone with a cursory knowledge of nyc of the 1940s and its population would never have come up with

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

OK, thanks a lot!! When I see the movie again I'll contact you.

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

Hint: The two portraits are a doublet but it is very rich i dont want to spoil the surprise... I saw Jennie when I was very young and believed it then to be the best American film ever ,,, thirty or forty years later i adhere to that conclusion

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I saw it again and could not "work it out" (the parallel you mentioned-need help! (and all about the ragamuffins)....maybe it's beacause I'm not american and I've only visited New York twice in my life)... I must say though, that with every new "watch", Miss Barrymore's character (Miss Spinney)"gets" more intriguing & mysterious, IMHO...there's sth. about her role....Is she in love with Eben?..Did she knew Jennie as a young girl? Maybe they were friends?... I've even read comments stating that she seems to be the "older" Jennie....the latter statement does not make sense at all to me.

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

I took some time to reply.

The ragamuffins in the bar were in an exile from a war they won or better yet two wars they won: The Rising and The Irish Civil war. The picture painted was of Mick Collins, their leader who was a casualty in their Civil War. Collin's former friend and opponent in the Irish Civil war was in power.

In 1947 Collins was an unperson, not spoken of rarely mentioned in books. The Irish in New York said nothing of Collins especially to an outsider. In The James Cagney Movie SHAKE HANDS WITH THE DEVIL Collins is presented unnamed as a shaddow behind a closed and guarded door. (Cagney's father had owned a bar like that depicted in the movie.)

For these ragamuffins to let the artist in on their secret showed how highly they regarded the artist. And for a poor, wretched, uneducated people in that era, the Irish did appreciate art and artists and held them in special esteem exempt from many social rules, here excused from paying the bar tab. The patrons and the barkeep know the artist didn't do a very good job on the painting they commissioned by picking up the artist's supper tab but they politely celebrated it anyway. The artist shrinks away in humiliation.

The ragamuffinsin the bar are as much ghosts as Jennie. Their picture is of a dead hero; their cause is moribund, irrelevant. They themselves departed their own country and yet never made much of their new one. They're only a couple of feet from the dock they landed at, a quarter century earlier. They are ghosts-in-life.

That's why I say the author well knew NYC and this little sub-society.

a cheery cherio

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

Thanks Dean!!! Wow!!! I couldn't have worked that out....You have a very wide knowledge of New York and the Irish. My knowledge in the subject is not so deep.
Again, thank you, for taking the time of telling me about it.

Fernando Silva

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

dear fernando:

thank you for your response ,,, the irish are a hard people to figure as superficially open and friendly as they are, they tell you very little ... it took me much ferreting to find out who michael collins was ,,, that was long before the movie Michael Collins and the books which have come out in the last 25 years ,,, the best i got from irish lips was "that feller which got hissself kilt."

if by contrast you express, for example, the slightest interest or knowledge of mexico to a mexican- american, they'll fill you in on all the ins-and-outs of mexican history ... same with the greeks

the beauty of the movie was that the author was able to ferret out a hidden truth and show how these men in the bar were clinging to a dead past and from an american point of view had made ghosts of themselves

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

As time passes, I realize this films is even more "special" than I figured, and that its has many subtleties and "hidden" meanings.

I'd love to watch another film of "the sort", "Peter Ibbetson".

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

there are excellent shots of post WWII era NYC, and as the artist investigates jennie he collects many asides and anecdotes about nyc of an even earlier age

the message if there is one is let go of the past ,,, indeed that's what jennie tells the artist at the end when she forces him to let her drift into the storm

i'll have to watch the movie again to see what past the artist himself is lost in.

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I think she meant, in a way, that she "herself" was his past, already, being a "ghost"...in other words, what he thought was his present, was "past" already.

Or due to the fact that she had died without falling in love with somebody, and finally she had "found" love after her death with him, and he (Eben) had not loved anyone until he met her, and there his "painting" talent "flourished", let's say, LOVE is the answer and what we're always looking for, maybe Jennie meant that he should leave his "life without love" behind, and urged him to start looking at life with "loving" eyes; perhaps even he would be able to love again someone else, a "real" person, not a ghost; a ghost who had to fulfill her yearning for love, before "goin' to Heaven"?

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

or perhaps moving out or away from digging through the past and looking ahead into the future but that's the beauty of a well-writ piece that it holds many different intrepretations

excellent camera shots of that grey era (1940s-1950s)in nyc of solid concrete buildings with a glimpse at the prior red brick era (c 1900- 1919) that preceded it before the onset of the silver era (1960-pres) of steel skyscrapers and glass towers... like the one mourned so much

the grey era is nicely depicted in and complimented by the black and white photography and adds to that nebula in which different pasts of living and dead became fused and confused

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

You've got a great architectural knowledge of NYC, indeed the film's shots show us a very special and "unique" New York...an almost "etheral" city....and a great use of "tinting" in the film...black and white, "greenish" (the tidal wave), sepia for the later scenes and the final shot in technicolor.

And that blurred quality you mention, adds positively more "atmosphere".

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

alas i have never seen a color version of the film but i have seen b&w so i can't comment on the green swash that makes for the disappointing ending in which the artist can preserve the past on canvas but can't change it. in fact jennie is the one who tells the artist to let go

there's a remarkable parallelism in this regard with the other portrait in the story and its admirers

the blurring --- the graduation scene uses a misty blurring around jennie but the day is sunny and the other grads dressed in white are sharp

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I hope you can watch the original version of the film, as it was originally filmed (different tints), it's a delight; the Anchor Bay DVD edition I purchased, has the original one. Maybe TCM shows that one too.

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

jennie is one film i hope never to see colorized. it is so perfect inthe tints of black and white the shades of grey that notonly give you the feel of nyc but also the nebulae in which the artist is lost,

thanks for the tip

would you consider writing a review of portrait of jennie for an on-line press?

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 20 years ago

I wouldn't say it is a "colorized" print, it is a print that shows the picture as it was originally filmed: From the beginning until the storm scene, in plain black & white; the storm sequence tinted wholly in green; the sequences after the storm in "sepia toned" black & white; and the final shot in color.

I've already written a review for Amazon.com, I'd love to re-write another one.

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

send one in to me at fp --- i know at least one poet (not me --- I'm no poet) who shares your enthusiasm (and mine too) for this excellent movie [email protected]

A Cheery Cherio
HA Andrews ([email protected])

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] deanofrpps 20 years ago

dear ohara

we are all amateurs ,,, your input would be most welcome as it might lead in an unanticipated direction ,,, i have seen this film many times over the last 40 years and see something new in it every time ,,,

that is why the film is so superior

i'm going to include this together with major dundee (1965) of all movies in a review for fullosia press of significant american films with serious keltic themes ,,,

be on the look out for it in march 05

a cheery cherio

HA Andrews

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[–] tapike 19 years ago

I've probably seen Portrait of Jennie before when I was younger, but as I watched it tonight on TCM, I was riveted to the screen & the story, with everything else around me fading away. I'm the type that picks up on storylines right away, so I knew right off that Jennie was a "ghost" of sorts or that somehow there was an intersection of time with the characters. I've watched a number of other movies (most notably "Somewhere In Time")with similar subject matter. And it's not as fanciful as some would think. I've read many reports & stories of people coming across time intersections. The movie is hauntingly beautiful, especially the winter scenes. I would love to have some still portraits of some of the scenes from the movie. They almost gave me the experience of stepping thru time. Excellent cinematograpy. Did anyone else notice the use of screening as a camera filter for some of the scenes? It gave the appearance of "cross-stitch". Perhaps the cinematographer wanted to give the scene the appearance of looking upon a canvas painting up close (IMHO), tying those scenes in with the theme of the movie, of a painter trying to capture something beautiful in time, so that it was preserved forever, for all the world to see.

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[–] deanofrpps 19 years ago

jennie is a beautiful film primarily because it is packed with meaning such that there is much to see in it from many different perspectives. it is one instance where cinematography approaches a literary effort, without becoming somewhat ironically in the context of a film about an artist and a work of art, "arty."

on people caught in an intersection of time historians such as carlysle and gibbons have reported seeing some of the scenes from history that they recorded in their histories when they visited the scenes they wrote about.

A Cheery cherio

HA Andrews

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[–] fsilva 19 years ago

Dean,

Hi it's been a long time. I sent you twice an e-mail with my "attempted review" and never got answer from you...or was it so bad?

Another movie, in this "trend" that I "discovered" as a "masterpiece", is "Letter From An Unknown Woman". Ever seen it?

Regards

Fernando

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[–] deanofrpps 19 years ago

hi fernando

i love this movie for its many hidden insights into NYC and its people

I am indeed anxious to read your review ,,, regretably i never got your email ... aol (where i am [email protected]) claassifies much of my email as spam ,,, it censures my daily bible reading but never fails to deliver viagra ads and porn solicitations

resend to [email protected] and/or [email protected]

ONLY JENNIFER JONES COULD BE JENNIE!!!!

HA Andrews

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[–] Lillita1957 19 years ago

I agree with you fsilva!
I totally LOVE this movie. I had to buy the dvd. I think it is one of the most strange and haunting love stories I have ever seen! It’s really unique! I think it’s a shame movies like this aren’t really made anymore . I think it’s just such a beautiful movie! And the final scene is just beautiful …at least I think it is. …I first saw this a few years a go when I was 13 and I cried… and I still cry when I see the ending.

Jennifer Jones really did a wonderful job, she really tried hard!!...It's not easy for a 29 year woman to impersonate a character beginning from her early teens, and succeeding at it.....

SO TRUE! I thought she did an awesome job! She really did look the ages she was portraying…I don’t think anyone else could have played the part.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“You’re Norma Desmond! You used to be in silent pictures…you used to be big!”
“I AM big…it’s the PICTURES that got SMALL!” ~ SUNSET BOULEVARD

"Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds! Masquerade! Take your fill, let the spectacle astound you!"
~ Andrew Lloyd Webber’s THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (2004)

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[–] fsilva 19 years ago

Yes, Lillita, Thanks for replying. And I'll continue watching it.

If you liked this one I recommend to you another film I loved, which is another piece of art, IMHO: "Letter from an Unknown Woman" with Joan Fontaine and Louis Jourdan.

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[–] Lillita1957 19 years ago

I will definitely check that movie out and I'll let you know what I think!

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“I think someday your portrait will hang in a museum…and people will come from all over the world to see it…” ~Jennie in PORTRAIT OF JENNIE

“Can he do that Lloyd?” –Harry
“Oh yeah Harry! He can... and he did!…and now…it’s on like Donkey Kong!” –Lloyd
~DUMB AND DUMBERER

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[–] klasekfilmfan 18 years ago

Woah. I read this entire thread. I really enjoyed reading every post. Fernando and Andrew: You are both very knowledgable about this film. I am going to watch this film again! I absolutely loved it the first time I watched it. They will never make another movie like this....EVER.

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[–] Bunnymonsterz 18 years ago

Fsilva, I agree with the "Letter From and Unknown Woman" recommendation! I love that movie. I went on a Joan Fontaine kick a few years ago after I saw "Rebecca" and I found a $2 copy of "Letter" on ebay... best 2 bucks I ever spent. :)

Also, a more modern film that I recommend along the lines of "Portrait of Jenny" is "Somewhere in Time" with Jane Seymour and Christopher Reeves. *Sigh*, I'm getting teary just thinking about it. There's something about the theme of Endless Love that just gets the girly-girl in me going...

Ok, so while I'm on this theme.....

*download* the song "The Luckiest," by Ben Folds Five (or at least check out the lyrics)

and check out the poem "Unending Love" by Rabindranath Tagore (Audrey Hepburn's favorite poem, I've heard).

Might as well have a tearjerker fest with your girlfriends and incorporate all of this stuff, haha. Throw in "Titanic" for good measure and break out a tub of icecream, it'll be great. :)

"You haven't switched from liquor to dope by any chance, have you Dexter?" --Katharine Hepburn

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[–] bhall-25 18 years ago

Another wonderful old movie is The Ghost and Mrs. Muir with Gene Tierney and Rex Harrison. Very romantic and touching, with a lovely film score by Bernard Hermann.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] djagoon 15 years ago

The only remnant of Bernard Herrmann's music in "Jennie" was the sad little tune that Jennie as a child sang to Eben. Themes from the works of Claude Debussy were woven into an original score by Dmitri Tiomkin.

For my money, they could have dumped Tiomkin's stuff and stuck with Debussy.

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[–] gretchenlamb 18 years ago

Saw the movie a few times on TV screen.. BUT BOY, was the cinematography awesome on big screen, especially the storm sequences and the cloisters sequences (speaking of architecture sites in NY, the convent sequences were filmed in the MetMuseum Cloisters in Bronx was it not? One of my favourite spots in NY). See a lot more subtle acting on big screen too, how Joseph Cotton, Ethel Barrymore, and Jennifer Jones countenances and expressions gradually changes over the course of the movie, very spectacular acting. Definitely seek it out in big screen if you can, it was a lot more rewarding than I had expected (though i have seen many old movies on both big and small screen).

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[–] fsilva 18 years ago

Thanks for sharing your experience Gretchen. I'd love to have the opportunity of seeing it on the big screen!!

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[–] paulet 18 years ago

That was indeed the Cloisters--the conversation between Joseph Cotten and Lillian Gish takes place in the Cuxa Cloister, and one exterior shows the Palisades, across the Hudson in New Jersey, as seen from a rampart in the Cloisters. Not in the Bronx, however, but Upper Manhattan. (They also turn up as a "convent" setting in Hal Hartley's "The Amateur.")

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[–] xylonian-1 17 years ago

I'm just glad there isn't the standard 'Remake' post....

Great discussion about a great movie....

Read My Lips!!!!

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] eden_echo 17 years ago

It's a very unusual movie and ethereal is right too to describe it, especially that storm sequence in green and then red sepia like tones.

"I promise you, before I die I'll surely come to your doorstep"

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[–] jimakros 17 years ago

I liked this movie,its not really my kind of film,but i think its well made and is what it tries to be,really romantic, about love that transcends time and conquers all.Also,i think Cotten and Jones did a good job of not the easiest material.

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[–] marvel88 16 years ago

It is quite a different film from its time, and all time really. Quite unusual, it's hard to make something of it. Just the way the film was done is hard to describe. But its main message showed through, about true love holding strong no matter what.

I was anxious to see Joseph Cotten and Jennifer Jones after enjoying them in "Duel in the Sun." This is a movie that really has to be watched to be understood, or not understood, and I'm surprised it's not more talked about.

"I know you're in there, Fagerstrom!"-Conan O'Brien

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[–] dicmar_rot 16 years ago

I saw this movie for the first time in the late 1950's on the Late Show which was on a CBS affiliate station showing old movies after 10:30PM. I never forgot it. It is a movie that stuck with me as unforgettable. Jennifer Jones and Joseph Cotten had a great chemistry and the people around them such as Ethel Barrymore and Lillian Gish were wonderful in it. If "Portrait of Jennie" were Joesph Cotten's only starring role I would still consider him one of my favorite actors. Jennifer Jones will be remembered as long as this film survives. I still watch this great movie.

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[–] fsilva 16 years ago

I totally agree with you dicmar and it's uncanny that you mistook Lillian Gish for Miss Hayes, because it has happened to me too! They were so similar and so alike in many ways. Both ladylike, dignified, classy and in real life both were very good friends. I once wrote a letter to Miss Gish, in the early 80s, and told her that she would have been as good as her friend, in the role of Catherine in "A Farewell to Arms" (1932), a dramatic role that would have been perfect for her.

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[–] dicmar_rot 16 years ago

"Portrait of Jennie" was on again this Saturday morning. As I watched, my granddaughter sat down and watched with me. We didn't talk as I didn't want to interrupt the movie. It was on TCM,of course. We watched it all the way through. I didn't ask if she liked it. She is almost twelve years old. She will remember it. I saw it at her age. After seeing it today, I want to hold on to this movie and not see anything for a while. This movie is that good.

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